Magazine problem

Catfish

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Cyecking out a new mag at the range today. It looks perfect and i xNt find any deformations in feed lips or anything. But i get an occasional bolt-over-base stoppage and the last round does this almost every time:

20200613_153303.jpg

And the original mag never does this ever. I'm thinking the new mag needs a fresh spring.

Do officer mags take the same springs as gvmt mags?

How the hell do i change it when the base plate is welded?
 
How the hell do i change it when the base plate is welded

Someone can expand on this but it may get you started...
  1. Push the follower 1/2 way in.
  2. Stick a toothpick, nail or ? in through a hole in the mag body all the way out the other side. You want to have it hold the spring from expanding.
  3. Remove the follower.
  4. Remove the spring (note the end orientation) by removing the pin.
  5. Go to doctor to remove spring from head.
 
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Cyecking out a new mag at the range today. It looks perfect and i xNt find any deformations in feed lips or anything. But i get an occasional bolt-over-base stoppage and the last round does this almost every time:

View attachment 221711

And the original mag never does this ever. I'm thinking the new mag needs a fresh spring.

Do officer mags take the same springs as gvmt mags?

How the hell do i change it when the base plate is welded?

What make is the new mag. What is the feed lip design on the new mag vs the old mag? I find it hard to believe that the new mags spring is weak unless it was purchased used. It is certainly possible but highly unlikely.
 
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I had a 1911 mag with the spring in wrong, turned 180 about the long axis, and it caused all sorts of problems until I took it apart.
 
"New" mag is an exact match for the original. Colt pony, stainless, welded base 6 round, dimpled follower. Def. Not a fake. The spring length matched some new ones I had in the box but it has 11 coils instead of 8. Hope that fixes it.

Thanks for the assist with removal. I would have launched that spring into the drywall.
 
Bolt Over Base misfeed is most often caused by weak mag spring, but overspringing the slide can also do it. SO, if you've installed a heavy "recoil" spring to save the frame, go back to the old one.

The 6-round OM mag takes the same spring and follower as the standard 7-round magazine. The 7-round OM magazine takes the same spring and follower as the flush-fit 8-round standard length magazine.

Make sure the springs and followers are correctly mated. An 8-round follower with a 7-round spring don't play well together...and vice versa especially so.

For the record, I put 7-round flush-fit OM magazines into the same category as 8-round flush fit standard length magazines. I won't allow'em in the yard.
 
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Thanks John. I put a Wolff +5% mag spring in it. The package just said 1911.

I did not change the RTB spring but it's possible the last owner might have.

I went down this road once before with a Kimber and never found a happy place. I'm taking all the good advice I can gather and hoping for the best from this Colt.
 
I put a Wolff +5% mag spring in it. The package just said 1911.

The +5% spring is designed for the McCormick/Devel 8-round follower and doesn't play well with the standard follower. If your magazine is a standard 7-rounder with the flat, dimpled follower, what you need is the Wolff 11-pound (7 round) spring. Or...if it's a 6-round OM-length magazine, the same spring.
 
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Here are the two springs

20200914_175949.jpg

In the magazine the left follower only catches one coil down from the top. On the the right the follower catches two coils down from the top. Where can I get more of the spring on the right?
 
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That one on the left is brand new and same same power wise, just the wrong fit.
 
For the record, I put 7-round flush-fit OM magazines into the same category as 8-round flush fit standard length magazines. I won't allow'em in the yard.

I have a 45 Auto Kimber Ultra Carry II that I won and have 7-round flush-fit Kimber magazines as well as 7-round Wilson Combat magazines for it. So far I have had no problems. What magazines would you suggest for the best reliability in that pistol?

I generally use Checkmate 7-round flush-fit magazines with hybrid or GI feed lips and dimpled followers in my Government and Commander-size pistols.
 
Where can I get more of the spring on the right?

When he spring and follower are installed in the magazine, three coils bear on the rear leg of the follower. One in the upper corner, one near the center,and one at the bottom.


It appears that Wolff does not offer that 11lb spring anymore?

I'm not aware that they've discontinued it and couldn't imagine why they would. I'll check the link you provided.

Edit to add:

This one is probably the 11-pound spring...10% over the design standard of 10 pounds...so it's at least a 10 pound spring, which is perfectly acceptable. It just won't last quite as long as the 11-pound spring.

7 ROUND 1911/COMMANDER & 6 ROUND OFFICERS - .45 ACP

The thinking behind the 11 pound spring was that it would allow the the slight weakening of the spring after taking a set...which they all do...and still maintain full design strength for a new spring for many years.

You'll probably wear the gun out before you have any trouble with a Wolff 11-pound/7-round spring.
 
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John thnk you. i see the 11 lb now. it was a tech problem... the browser i was using did not show the pull down and all i could see was the 6#RP version. ordering now.
 
Springs arrived from Wolff yesterday and were exactly the fix to this problem. Removed the brand-new checkmate style spring that caused a stoppage every other round and put in the correct one. I had a flawless range session with no stoppages at all in 60 rounds. More will follow when I have time.

I also tried to tweak extractor tension but I don't think it's right yet as my cases were ejecting in every which direction. Some even went forward 5-7 yards. @John Travis I'm certain you have posted a primer on the extractor somewhere - I remember reading it. I checked your posts at Rangehot.com and its' not there. Could you point me?
 
Springs arrived from Wolff yesterday and were exactly the fix to this problem.

It's usually somethin' simple.


I also tried to tweak extractor tension but I don't think it's right yet as my cases were ejecting in every which direction.

Wonky ejection is a study unto itself, and when you get into the short, fast-moving slides and extended ejectors, it can get downright maddening.

First, extractor tension alone is rarely the problem as long as it will hold the case on the breechface. There's more to extractor tuning than setting the tension. I rarely bother with it unless it's obviously too high or low. I've never fiddled with gauges to set the tension at some precisely prescribed level in ounces or the like. It's just not that critical, and I suspect that these gizmos were invented to sell rather than out of necessity.

What is likely happening with yours is that the slide is hitting the case before it can clear the port. I suspect tht you'll find evidence of that in brass smears around the port. That happens when the extractor releases the case too early...case is knocked straight back into your face or over your head...or too late, and the case gets knocked forward...which usually only happens with an extended ejector when the claw is too long.

Sometimes you can get out of it by simply filing or stoning a light radius on the top and bottom corners of the claw. LIGHT...radius. Don't get carried away. Basically, just break the corners.

If that doesn't do it, the claw is probably way too long. Measure the thickness of the extractor spine to the tensioning wall, and then from the spine to the tip of the claw and subtract. I like .036-.038 inch. Any more than that,and the claw can put the case in a bind by trapping the rim between the claw and the nose of the ejector, holding it in the port until the slide runs forward and knocks it loose. Look into the case extrctor groove and the forward face of the rim for evidence of it. I also suspect that your ejected cases may have a dent on the side...or not. It depends on how tightly the case is trapped.

If the claw is too long, adjust by dragging it lightly across a smooth mill file in the cutting direction, being careful to keep it square, and re-measure after every swipe until you hit the sweet spot. Easy does it. A mill file will cut fast. Don't go below .035 inch.

Then, just break the sharp corners and try it.

Hope this helps.
 
How the hell do i change it when the base plate is welded?

I remembered this question and thought I'd give you a quick and easy method. With just a little practice, you can take one apart in about 10 seconds and reassemble it in 15.

This only works with the standard 7-round magazines and the 6-round Officer's Model magazines. With the Shooting Stars and the like, you'll have to adjust the method a little.

Load three rounds into the magazine and slip a pin through the 2nd witness hole from the top.

Push the cartridges out and rap the rear top portion of the magazine on a wooden bench or a piece of 2X4 to dislodge the follower from the spring. Remove the follower. Place your thumb over the top of the feed lips and pull the pin. It won't hurt. I promise.

Remove the spring.

To reassemble:

Feed the spring into the mag body and load three rounds directly on top of the spring. Insert pin through the 2nd witness hole. You'll need to press down on the top round just a little to make up for the thickness of the follower.

Remove the cartridges.

Install follower and press on it until it snaps in place on the top loop of the spring. Place your thumb firmly on top of the feed lips and pull the pin. Check to be sure that the top spring loop is correctly in place behind the follower slidestop elevator shelf.
 
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I learn a ton every time you post.

I just realized that I forgot to include the quick way to remove the follower. Haste will be my undoing.

After the cartridges are removed, rap the rear top portion of the magazine on a wooden bench or a piece of 2X4 to dislodge the follower from the spring.

I'll go back and add it to the post.
 
Brass swipes and dented cases are present as predicted but not the long extractor tip.

If that doesn't do it, the claw is probably way too long. Measure the thickness of the extractor spine to the tensioning wall, and then from the spine to the tip of the claw and subtract. I like .036-.038 inch. ... I also suspect that your ejected cases may have a dent on the side...or not. It depends on how tightly the case is trapped.
... Don't go below .035 inch.

I think we found the gremlin. Mine measures 0.025" What do you think, do I need a new one?

20201011_143659.jpg 20201011_143610.jpg
 
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Brass swipes and dented cases are present as predicted but not the long extractor tip.



I think we found the gremlin. Mine measures 0.025" What do you think, do I need a new one?

View attachment 255472 View attachment 255473

I'd get a new one, even though a short claw usually releases early and causes the slide to bat the case backward...but anything is possible with these chopped-down variants. As sure as you think you've got one figured, it'll make a fool out of ya.

The only problem with new extractors is that if you get one that has excessive deflection, you'll trade an ejection problem for a return to battery problem...and correcting that requires some finesse and the proper file.

Order a Wilson Heavy Duty extractor. It's a little better extractor than the Bulletproof and a buck or so cheaper to boot. If you trade one problem for another...I'm only an hour away from you, and only a few minutes from an exit off I-85.

PS

Find out who buggered up that extractor and break his fingers.
 
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I have a small file that fits and if I make the slot deeper that would make the claw longer. Then I'd have to stone down the round part to bring the claw closer to the centerline - or am I out in the weeds here? Worst case is still buying a new extractor, right?
 
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am I out in the weeds here?

No, you're actually doin' pretty good. If making the slot deeper also takes the bottom of the slot out of contact with the case rim, you'll need to reduce the front pad to put it back into contact. I generally hesitate to take that much out of the slot, but from what I can see in the photos, it's thick enough to give it a go. A stone is gonna take awhile.

So, have at it and see what happens. Just for shits and giggles, shoot for .032 length. If it'll extract with .025, it'll extract with a 32nd. Then check the tension. If that's good, test fire it and see.

But, first...check tosee if the extractor is clocking without a lot of effort. That can have strange effects on the ejection pattern.
 
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This pistol is debugged - thanks for your help!

I recently fit a new stop plate and there's extractor no clocking at all. I filed the tensioning wall till the claw was 0.033-ish and then removed a similar depth of material from the pad till a case made solid contact. I polished the worked surfaces with 600 grit, re-tensioned the extractor and it's running just like it's supposed to. Ejection is generally to the right and slightly behind - it's not going to put them all in a bucket but it's much improved from before. Brass is no longer dented, and it feeds every type of bullet I have available.

Of course, this was all after placing the order at Ed Brown, so if it gets wonky again I have a brand new extractor to fall back on.

Thank you sir!
 
This pistol is debugged
It's usually somethin' simple.
Of course, this was all after placing the order at Ed Brown, so if it gets wonky again I have a brand new extractor to fall back on

Never hurts to have a spare. If the file that you used to reduce the tensioning wall isn't safe sided, you probably created a sharp corner at the junction and could eventually lead to the claw shearing off...not from pulling the case out of the chamber...but as it strikes the ejector and twists.

Anyway...good show! Ya brung it home alive.
 
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