40 dead ?

Is the 40 S&W cartridge heading the way of the dinosaurs?

  • Total voters
    94
Combat Diver said:
I'll take the 40mm over ANY pistol round!
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CD
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Hahaha...at first I didn't get that, having 9mm on my mind n all. I hadda go n fix that. Thanks for the shameful head up. :p
 
Also remember the cartridge been around since 1874 when Winchester developed the .38 WCF for the 73' Winchester rifle and Colt chambered it in the Peacemaker as the .38-40. 180 gr .401 inch bullet at 900-950 fps. It'll be around for a while.

CD
 
Combat Diver said:
Also remember the cartridge been around since 1874 when Winchester developed the .38 WCF for the 73' Winchester rifle and Colt chambered it in the Peacemaker as the .38-40. 180 gr .401 inch bullet at 900-950 fps. It'll be around for a while.

CD
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Ok...they are a buncha "beens" with one "be". No reference to "here" nor the future "there". 9mm covers all those. It's has been, it will be, and is here and when ya get there you find it too. ;)
 
I remember the bad old days when I would go to the local Wally World and not a single box of 9mm or .45 was to be found. Day after day I would check, and the results were always the same. However, sitting there on the shelf, each and every time, were boxes of .40 S&W, smiling and giving me the finger. I finally had enough, and went out and bought myself a G23, and went to the range a happy man. Ended up buying a G27 to go with it, and it became my EDC. Times changed, as they always do, and the choices expanded again. I've moved on to carrying .45 most of the time, but I won't be getting rid of anything in my safe anytime soon. Times always change, and I don't like getting the finger.
 
The one reason I keep my 40's is simply put that I can and have got barrels for 9mm and 357 sig and this gives me three calibers in one gun.
 
I never paid 40S&W any attention. I already shot and reloaded 9mm, 45ACP and 10mm in my pistols. 40S&W had zero advantages to offer because I already had the other calibers in my inventory.
 
MacEntyre said:
It won't be like the 41 Magnum... it's Short & Weak, where the 41 Magnum is Perfection in a Revolver or a Trapper length Levergun!
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Spoken like a man with some intelligence!

I have never owned a 40 and never wanted one but I know a lot of people who really like it. I don't think it ever go away, there will always be enough people around who like it that it will stay relevant.
 
Don't believe the round is dead or fading. It is stuck between the 45 and 9mm, which are generally the more popular handgun rounds. Recently completed a Glock 22 build because I did not own a handgun in 40. Ammo was easy to find.
 
Short Fuse said:
The .40 is a 10mm short, that is why it is called the .40 short and weak.
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It's only short and weak with 180gr FBI loads. The 165gr standard pressure rounds will outperform any standard 9mm load at the same pressure. Reload for a real chamber not that Glock unsupported chamber crap and it approaches the 45 energy easily
 
I sold 1400 rounds of 40 cal ammo to fund my first Hi Power 9mm. Now I have five of 'em!

The FN Hi Power 9mm is the most successful military pistol ever...
that has a lot to do with the worldwide availability of 9mm ammo.
Nothing similar has ever happened with 40 cal.

If I weren't such a 10mm fanboy, I would love 40 cal.
If I weren't such a 41 mag fanboy, I would love 357 mag and 44 mag.
<Sigh!>
 
I only have one semi-auto pistol. It's a .40 because I've always been kind of contrary (Mopar fan; had a Yamaha when everyone else had Hondas) and besides, I never saw anyone holding a .40 sideways. Now that I know it's dead I have it in a little coffin full of dirt from Springfield, Massachusetts. I realize this means I can only shoot it at night and I can never expose it to sunlight, but that only adds to its charm. ;)
 
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I've got a pawn shop S&W model 410 that shoots any .40 ammo that will go through it. Incredibly well made and accurate with DA first pull and then SA. One of my favorites. Too heavy and bulky to carry but it is often the first gun I grab at the range.
 
Not arguing one way or another, but the .40SW is closer to the .45ACP in energy than it is to 9mm. I guess it's compared to 9mm more because the pistol frames are generally the same size. Honestly, I just forgot where I was going with this. What was the question again?
 
I don't own one, but have always admired the .357 Sig. Seems to be possibly an under appreciated cartridge? Why is it not more popular? A more extreme version of the same concept is the 22 TCM - what a blast (literally) to shoot! Odd how they bottlenecked down to increase the effectiveness with the .357 Sig but they went the other way from the .30 Luger to the 9mm. Sorry if I just went off topic.
 
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Me too Joe! I like it good enough. In researching some stuff apparently the 165 grain JHP is about the best consistently performing projectile in the 40 from feed back on police involved shootings.
 
I grabbed an M&P in .40 police trade from Bud's, like it a lot, also got a used Px4 Storm in .40 also used, shoots and looks like new, got plenty of ammo on promo and save the brass for reloading someday. I like the .40 on steel targets.
 
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MurphyLong said:
You can't be serious... you're implying it has no purpose in self defense...
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Sure it can be a good self defense round. But, as been stated already in this thread, 40's are not selling, the police across the country are dropping for the 9mm. The only place it seems to me the 40 is still holding it own to make major in USPSA.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
Sure it can be a good self defense round. But, as been stated already in this thread, 40's are not selling, the police across the country are dropping for the 9mm. The only place it seems to me the 40 is still holding it own to make major in USPSA.
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Except those facts have no basis in reality. Who says .40's aren't selling and the FBI is one agency, this hardly equates to police across the country.
 
James said:
If my understanding is still correct, 165 gr is the largest projectile they still push to max 40 S&W pressures. They started down-loading the 180 grs because any setback of the bullet would push the pressures over the edge. I think this was a reaction/solution to the glock kabooms of years past. I can't say with certainty that is is still the case but last time I shot Speer Lawman 165 gr back to back with other factory 180 gr loads, the 165 was noticeably stronger.
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Massad Ayoob claims the 165 has the best real life shooting stats to back it up over the 180 grain. He claims both are great rounds but the 165 grain tends to perform better and he alluded to the same thing about set back and pressure. He did mention the Speer Gold dots are NOT loaded down.
 
MurphyLong said:
Did you even read the article? The last half:

"The short answer to this, would be “no, it's not dead.” In fact, it's no more dead than 10mm is. The .40 caliber will always have a following, and there will be some who will always believe it is the best option, no matter what the FBI or anyone else says. The most important thing, is that we all carry what we can handle in a defensive situation.

However, it is in decline as a commercially used self-defense cartridge. Why is this so? Well, for starters, cost effectiveness has a big role to play. There is a direct correlation between cost per round and the amount of live-fire training a person does.

In other words, if you can't afford to shoot your gun, it won't get shot. And, the result of that, is being less effective in your self-defense pursuits. Period.

If you take two boxes of ammo from the same manufacturer, one in 9mm and the other in .40 S&W, the former will be cheaper 9 out of 10 times. That's just the way it is.

On the other hand, though, you have the people who don't care about cost simply because they believe it does a better job. And that is the main reason why the .40S&W will never actually die."
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Yes, I did read the whole article......

The 40S&W is on the decline, that is a fact. Does it matter what the reason is? No, not really.
 
I'm not a big fan of the 40 S&W round although my duty gun is a Sig P226 in 40 . I have 3 other personal 40 caliber handguns Plenty of ammo and 5000 projectiles ( can load in 40 or 10mm)and a 5 gallon bucket of brass. The 40 is like all other rounds ,If there is a niche for them they will stick around. Maybe one day they will have a "cult " following like 41 magnum and 10 mm.
 
MurphyLong said:
Did you even read the article? On the other hand, though, you have the people who don't care about cost simply because they believe it does a better job. And that is the main reason why the .40S&W will never actually die."
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People can believe what they want. Honest facts are that there is virtually no difference in modern 9mm, .40 and .45 as far as terminal performance on humans. There is nothing really wrong with .40... it is just nothing special. If 9mm kills just as well (and it does) with less recoil and more capacity... well, that is easy math.
 
I talked to a LGS owner yesterday who tol' me two thangs that opened me eyeballs...

First, he said that 9mm Ammo sells more'n All Other Centerfire Handgun Ammo Combined!

Second, he said that 21 Handguns in 9mm are sold for every 1 Handgun in All Other Calibers.
 
I don't care what you carry you must be proficient with it. So as @MurphyLong said, carry what you practice with.
 
MacEntyre said:
The FN Hi Power 9mm is the most successful military pistol ever...
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1911 fanboys will beg to differ. :rolleyes:

MacEntyre said:
that has a lot to do with the worldwide availability of 9mm ammo.
Nothing similar has ever happened with 40 cal.
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I would say that the current worldwide availability of 9mm can trace its origins to the abundance of firearms shooting that caliber in possession of most of the areas where WW2 combat took place. I mean, if you have this huge pile of pistols and submachine guns left by Germany and Italy and France and Canada and the ammo to feed them, why would you spend your hard earned money and buy something else in another caliber? There were enough of them to reach the critical mass to make this a self-feeding cycle (more on that later).

Remember the stgw44 is still in use in Africa, and PPU thinks there is enough demand to have assembly lines churning 7.92x33 rounds. There is money to be made. I guess it also makes me wonder how large are the PPU factories; they seem to make rounds for almost every single caliber out there.

AR10ShooterinNC said:
Yes, I did read the whole article......

The 40S&W is on the decline, that is a fact. Does it matter what the reason is? No, not really.
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The question is: are there enough .40S&W pistols out there to have reached the critical mass where manufacturers will still make new ammo and firewarms on that caliber? I think the answer is yes. Look what happened to the .45, which supposedly was replaced by 9 and/or 40: I do not see its sales going down anytime soon and even Glock itself quite a few .45 pistols. Same goes for 380, which had suffered period int he US where it was relegated as a "lady's caliber" and now everyone makes a few pistols on that caliber; those pistols are not being bought primarily by people doing ISPCADGWEERTH or whatever it is called. There is good money to be made here.

I may not like 40S&W but it sure is not a boutique cartridge.
 
twofocused said:
Personally 40 is an amazing round that I don't own. The recoil is sharp and tends to have a snap.
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Except The VP40. That one shooters vey nicely. Even my niece who weighs in around 110# can shoot a full mag no problem. But she has to take a short break shooting a mag in a Glock 40.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
 
dalek said:
You must have met nice 1911 fanboys...
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It's the facts that are not even close.

The Hi-Power was adopted as a military sidearm by over 90 countries, and about 50 still use it.
FN did far better with the Hi-Power than Colt did with the 1911.
Both were successes, but the Hi-Power is the most successful of all military pistols, ever.
FN also did far better with the FAL than any other maker of battle rifles.

...and the 40 cal is dying. Don't join a Kickstarter project to design a 40 cal firearm.
 
.40 S&W isn't going to die tomorrow. No longer the current fad just like the .38 Special but both will be with us for a very long time.


CD
 
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