Good article from TTAG on an overlooked safety issue, warning graphic photo at end of the article.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/08...ium=manual
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/08...ium=manual
WOW. That man is lucky to be alive.
So, some of you think it is OK not to follow the 4 rules, sometimes, “because I won’t screw up”.
OK. I don’t remember a shotgun exception for any of those rules.
Maybe, for an opened break-open. Otherwise, dumb. As for me, I will continue to not muzzle sweep myself unless the gun is in multiple pieces on the cleaning bench. Like chamber, trigger, bolt, and hammer are not all still attached to each other (depending on gun type of course). Maybe I am just picky.
I'll continue to rest my shotgun on my toe when I please.
Why? Because I know it's not loaded. I load one shell in for trap, typically one for skeet unless its a two bird position.
That's it. Nothing to harm me when I do it.
Dont be scared of something because some idiot got hurt doing it idiotically
Im new to skeet, so I apologize for not being factual in my statements. When Ive shot it was usually one bird at a timeTrap can be one or two but ALL skeet "positions" require 2 birds..... or more....
Im new to skeet, so I apologize for not being factual in my statements. When Ive shot it was usually one bird at a time
True, but at all stations you load 2 and shoot 2 at the singles and then reload 2 for the doubles on 1, 2, 6 &7
So if it's broke open over your shoulder between stations do you not think you are sweeping yourself with the barrel? I make holsters, do you not think I sweep myself with unloaded guns all the time? Sure, treat a gun like it's loaded until you can verify it's not. But if you verify it's unloaded, things can change.
BTW, do you carry a gun? In a holster? Because I can guarantee you that you sweep yourself putting the gun in the holster or taking it out. You can act like you don't. You can convince yourself you don't. And you would be wrong. I make holsters. I deal with them every day. You cannot get a gun in a holster on your body without sweeping. And you can't remove it without sweeping either.
There's being careful, and there is being ridiculous. You take your pick, I'll take mine.
Broke open separates the chamber from the hammer. I have shot some skeet and trap and I am OK with that.
You are partly right about the holster. I have a gun in a holster on my bedside table that I walk past. But guns don’t go off just sitting around. I don’t worry about walking over/under a safe with loaded guns in it either.
I am very careful not to sweep myself holstering. It is possible to avoid both for carry and competition. There is no reason to holster fast. As an RO I hate it when people holster fast, especially when the point the thing at their hip to find the holster and then angle it in. Stupid. I never holster my carry hot on my hip unless practicing at the range. Any other time the gun and holster are a unit.
Thinking about it, unholstering I could possibly sweep when I draw moving and my right leg is out and forward. I will think about how to avoid that. Normally my gun is vertical on a plane that doesn’t intercept me, and it stays on that plane as I draw. Every shooting sport I am aware of will DQ for sweeping yourself or anyone else with a hot unholstered gun, especially during the draw.
It isn’t about being ridiculous, it’s about being consistent. If I am not always rigorous about it, I am more likely to make a mistake.
Because its a perfectly acceptable practice in this discipline apparently.
And one guy not paying attention makes it all wrong? Consider how many folks out there shoot. How often. We do close to 100 shooter rounds on a weekend of sporting clays at the club. Say half the guys do that, 50 shooters, 10 stations, 50 shots. 2 weekends a month. I've been there 5 years. We've never had it happen. Is it something to consider? Sure. Is it something to worry about? Maybe. Is it a problem in the sport? Just for that guy. It's simply not an issue because it happens once.
I just checked. Nope. No muzzle sweep drawing or holstering in a normal stance. Supertuck angled back maybe 15 degrees. On my hip bone (widest part of me) so there is room to keep it vertical (actually on me the muzzle is slightly out of vertical away from my feet as carried). Slight wrist turn out after I draw so muzzle tracks to my right away from my leg and foot.Pay attention. I mean REALLY pay attention. A straight line imagined from the muzzle to out is going to cross something in the process. If you think you can get your gun in and out of a CC holster without muzzling something, you are not paying really close attention. These guys shooting themselves on the draw are doing it by getting their finger on the trigger too fast, while it's muzzling something. It's not just a lazy draw. The gun is too close to the body not to cover something. The guys that shoot themselves reholstering by finger in trigger guard or catching something in the trigger, because they are muzzling themselves. Not from bad form, because of proximity and how close the holsters carry. It's why you really need to pay attention to the other stuff. If you think you are not doing it, you're wrong. IWB, OWB, shoulder, pocket, AIWB; at some point for a brief amount of time it happens.
Pay attention. I mean REALLY pay attention. A straight line imagined from the muzzle to out is going to cross something in the process. If you think you can get your gun in and out of a CC holster without muzzling something, you are not paying really close attention. These guys shooting themselves on the draw are doing it by getting their finger on the trigger too fast, while it's muzzling something. It's not just a lazy draw. The gun is too close to the body not to cover something. The guys that shoot themselves reholstering by finger in trigger guard or catching something in the trigger, because they are muzzling themselves. Not from bad form, because of proximity and how close the holsters carry. It's why you really need to pay attention to the other stuff. If you think you are not doing it, you're wrong. IWB, OWB, shoulder, pocket, AIWB; at some point for a brief amount of time it happens.
Keep in mind that Cooper's rule one applies until you personally verify it's unloaded. I work with guns every day. I have to muzzle and sweep myself every day making holsters. I have to see them from every angle, mold them, put them together. IN some cases I am using real guns. I verify they are clear, and go to work.
No, it most certainly does not. Here's Coopers rules from his wiki page:
View attachment 69741
EDIT: And, man it is beyond annoying that you think we are so stupid that we can't "pay attention" to where our muzzle is! JimP is an experienced Range Safety officer and competes in many shooting sports!
Ever use a bore brush on a rifle? Ever use a bore snake? Do you verify it's unloaded then feel comfortable cleaning the gun and sweeping yourself with the muzzle? Treat everything like it's loaded? We don't. We can't. Sometimes you verify it's unloaded and move on. Sometimes we can actually get too anal about this stuff. To the point of near absurdity. Depends on where you see them. I'll guarantee you they are out there that reference until you verify it's unloaded. Taken to the extreme, if we are to follow rule #1 we can't clean guns, try on holsters, dry fire, etc. But that's not how that works is it?
It's not about stupid. It's about assuming things that can make you complacent about the wrong things. If you assume you don't muzzle yourself, you can get complacent on other things because "you don't muzzle yourself." When you realize you actually do muzzle yourself, it makes you laser focused on those activities where it happens, like holstering and drawing. I'd rather see folks focused on the right things rather than assuming the wrong things.
Cool. You make valid points and I respect your opinion man.
But, none the less, I think stories like this should serve to remind us being complacent and to make us have a really good look at our gun safety habits.