1911 troubleshooting

Sneakymedic said:
I had a great 1911 guy work on mine at his kitchen table. I had some issues with it, and it ran like a sewing machine, post visit. And I used it where my life depended on it. He quickly told me if the mags were adjusted correctly, the bullet nose would never touch the feed ramp. There are a very few exceptions, but not many. It was amazing what i learned about a 1911 in the two hour visit.
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Sounds like we have the same friend. He showed me too, how bullets jump right over the feed ramp. It makes a particular swishing sound when it happens correctly. If not, you can hear a couple of clunks.

That's how you know that a barrel feed ramp means they've given up on controlled round feed. With those longer ramps, the bullet is supposed to hit and run up the ramp, into the chamber. JMB designed it so that as soon as the tapered feed lips of the magazine let go of the round, the case rim has risen up between the extractor hook and the breechface so the case is held firm; the magazine keep pushing the fed round up, and it lines up with the chamber before it ever gets to the feed ramp.
 
I can say that Millie is not firing rounds like John Wick ;) at the range, I've been there with her and at Battery Oaks,
she also has a membership so she takes her sweet time at Jim's.
 
MacEntyre said:
Sounds like we have the same friend. He showed me too, how bullets jump right over the feed ramp. It makes a particular swishing sound when it happens correctly. If not, you can hear a couple of clunks.

That's how you know that a barrel feed ramp means they've given up on controlled round feed. With those longer ramps, the bullet is supposed to hit and run up the ramp, into the chamber. JMB designed it so that as soon as the tapered feed lips of the magazine let go of the round, the case rim has risen up between the extractor hook and the breechface so the case is held firm; the magazine keep pushing the fed round up, and it lines up with the chamber before it ever gets to the feed ramp.
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We know the secret. LOL. Wish he was still around for times like this. But people don't respect years and years of experience anymore.
 
Millie said:
The gun guy at the range thought the little divot at the top was from the rounds pushing on it and he tried to straighten it out. Now this might have been good, or not, depending on whether the divot was supposed to be there. I need to find pics of others just like it and see what they look like. Ideally, I'd like to actually look at mine next to someone else's magazine and see what's what. Lol.
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Rock Island has a 1911 mag that appears to have a divot on the upper front.

"The pistol ships with two 10-round stainless steel magazines, which work with both 9mm and .22 TCM cartridges."​

9mm-l.-and-.22-TCM.jpg
 
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vaskeet said:
I should not have said it that way what I have found is that shooters new to the 1911 are sometime prone to it
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Isn't that true with all semi-auto pistols and new shooters?

Especially small, light 9mm pistols...
 
gc70 said:
Rock Island has a 1911 mag that appears to have a divot on the upper front.

"The pistol ships with two 10-round stainless steel magazines, which work with both 9mm and .22 TCM cartridges."​

9mm-l.-and-.22-TCM.jpg
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Yep, that's the divot! The magazine (singular) that came with the gun was black metal. I wonder why I only got one?
The 2 new ones I tried out tonight did perfectly, but I had someone waiting for me so I only had time to shoot 50 rounds. No issues whatsoever, but we'll see what happens on a 3 box day, like Wednesday....lol.
Thanks for the pic.
 
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gc70 said:
Rock Island has a 1911 mag that appears to have a divot on the upper front.

​
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Metalforms, which Dan Wesson ships with their name on it, and Dawson ships with their name on it, have the same divot.​
 
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Millie said:
Yep, that's the divot! The magazine (singular) that came with the gun was black metal. I wonder why I only got one?
The 2 new ones I tried out tonight did perfectly, but I had someone waiting for me so I only had time to shoot 50 rounds. No issues whatsoever, but we'll see what happens on a 3 box day, like Wednesday....lol.
Thanks for the pic.
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Where did you get the gun from. Was it new and from a gun shop or used? If new and from a shop I would check with Rock Island and be sure it was supposed to come with two mags then go ask the shop where the second one is.
 
Schattenreiter said:
Where did you get the gun from. Was it new and from a gun shop or used? If new and from a shop I would check with Rock Island and be sure it was supposed to come with two mags then go ask the shop where the second one is.
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I got it from a person/dealer, not a gun store. New. I'm going to ask him about it, and also call RIA and ask for a replacement and see if it was supposed to have two. I was on the go all day, no time to call anyone....whew! Glad to be home finally....
 
gc70 said:
Rock Island has a 1911 mag that appears to have a divot on the upper front.

"The pistol ships with two 10-round stainless steel magazines, which work with both 9mm and .22 TCM cartridges."​

9mm-l.-and-.22-TCM.jpg
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That 22TCM intrigues me. For no useful reason I admit, but I still think about it.
 
Millie said:
Yep, that's the divot! The magazine (singular) that came with the gun was black metal. I wonder why I only got one?
The 2 new ones I tried out tonight did perfectly, but I had someone waiting for me so I only had time to shoot 50 rounds. No issues whatsoever, but we'll see what happens on a 3 box day, like Wednesday....lol.
Thanks for the pic.
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The picture I posted was from an article describing magazines that ship with RIA's 9mm/.22TCM combo pistol; the combo pistol does ship with two magazines.
 
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fieldgrade said:
Metalforms, which Dan Wesson ships with their name on it, and Dawson ships with their name on it, have the same divot.
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My 9-round Metalforms don't have a divot and I have never had a feeding problem with any of them, so I will continue to forego the 10th round and skip the divot. (Yes, I am one of those guys who also sacrifices the 8th round in a .45 for the absolute reliability of 7-round magazines. :))
 
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gc70 said:
My 9-round Metalforms don't have a divot and I have never had a feeding problem with any of them, so I will continue to forego the 10th round and skip the divot. (Yes, I am one of those guys who also sacrifices the 8th round in a .45 for the absolute reliability of 7-round magazines. :))
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Damn, can’t believe you don’t think the 8th round of 45 acp in the face will make all the difference. :p
 
Sneakymedic said:
We know the secret. LOL. Wish he was still around for times like this. But people don't respect years and years of experience anymore.
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Absolutely. I got a chance to attend one of his 'seminars' many moons ago & he's good people.
 
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gc70 said:
My 9-round Metalforms don't have a divot and I have never had a feeding problem with any of them, so I will continue to forego the 10th round and skip the divot. (Yes, I am one of those guys who also sacrifices the 8th round in a .45 for the absolute reliability of 7-round magazines. :))
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This is very interesting right here and thanks for posting it. Couple of random thoughts.

I had some Tripp Research 10 round 9mm mags that are highly regarded by most, but when I carried them on my belt in competitions I found that the top round/s would walk out just a little and cause problems while reloading on the clock (for me anyway). I can't recall if they have the divot on the mag tube or not.

Next random thought. I was going to trade in a bunch of mags I don't use on a deal that Ed Brown had going recently until I discovered he doesn't sell 10 round 9mm mags, only 9 round as best I can tell (although he does sell 8 round 45acp). Running 9 round 9mm mags in IDPA puts the shooter at a disadvantage in his/her division since all others are running 10 rd mags. So I didn't trade mine in.

All that said, the 10 round 9mm Metalform/Dawson/Wesson mags that I run in competitions do run like a sewing machine in my Fusion Freedom series full size 1911. So I will stick with them.
 
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gc70 said:
The picture I posted was from an article describing magazines that ship with RIA's 9mm/.22TCM combo pistol; the combo pistol does ship with two magazines.
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The 22tcm/9mm uses modified 38 super mags the 22TCM is to long for a 9 mm mag that is why they have now made the 22TCM9R whish is the same case but a shorter Bullet to fit in existing 9mm guns
 
After watching this one for a while, I decided to break down and try to offer Millie a little help.

There are reasons that the 9mm cartridge is just wrong for the 1911 platform...the very reaons that I never owned one and never will.

The OAL is too short and the tiny rim and extractor groove require heavy modification to an extractor that was designed to work with the .45 Auto's case dimensions.

Because of the extractor groove, the tip of the extractor claw is used to place tension on the case in the bottom of the extractor groove instead of the tensioning wall bearing against the rim. A little too much tension, and you get feed problems. Back off enough for reliable feed/return to bettery, and you run into extraction and.or ejection problems. Take enough off the claw to bring the tensioning wall into contact with the rim, and it's too short to hang onto the case and bring it out of the chamber. One of the tricky things about running a cartridge with the pressure levels of the 9mm is that the extractor has to work harder to pull it clear. Add to that a very short claw, and it gets tricky.

Finally...even with a light recoil spring...the 115 grain ammunition barely generates enough recoil impetus to drive the slide and barrel backward with authority. The 124 grain stuff is better. The 147 grain offering is better still.

That delicate balance, coupled with the too short OAL is, while a 1911 may be okay for a range toy...if you get one that runs...I'd never recommend carrying one for serious purpose. They can be made to run...if the wrench understands what he's doing and why...but it tries one's patience, and patience is something that I've run short of in my old age.

Millie, if you want to run a mid-bore in the 1911, my advice is to have the barrel rechambered to .38 Super. It won't require nearly as much patience to get it to behave. The ammunition is more expensive to be sure, but it'll save you a lot of hair pulling.

And if you want a single action 9mm, just get a High Power and be done with it.

Regards.
 
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John Travis said:
After watching this one for a while, I decided to break down and try to offer Millie a little help.

There are reasons that the 9mm cartridge is just wrong for the 1911 platform...the very reaons that I never owned one and never will.

The OAL is too short and the tiny rim and extractor groove require heavy modification to an extractor that was designed to work with the .45 Auto's case dimensions.

Because of the extractor groove, the tip of the extractor claw is used to place tension on the case in the bottom of the extractor groove instead of the tensioning wall bearing against the rim. A little too much tension, and you get feed problems. Back off enough for reliable feed/return to bettery, and you run into extraction and.or ejection problems. Take enough off the claw to bring the tensioning wall into contact with the rim, and it's too short to hang onto the case and bring it out of the chamber. One of the tricky things about running a cartridge with the pressure levels of the 9mm is that the extractor has to work harder to pull it clear. Add to that a very short claw, and it gets tricky.

Finally...even with a light recoil spring...the 115 grain ammunition barely generates enough recoil impetus to drive the slide and barrel backward with authority. The 124 grain stuff is better. The 147 grain offering is better still.

That delicate balance, coupled with the too short OAL is, while a 1911 may be okay for a range toy...if you get one that runs...I'd never recommend carrying one for serious purpose. They can be made to run...if the wrench understands what he's doing and why...but it tries one's patience, and patience is something that I've run short of in my old age.

Millie, if you want to run a mid-bore in the 1911, my advice is to have the barrel rechambered to .38 Super. It won't require nearly as much patience to get it to behave. The ammunition is more expensive to be sure, but it'll save you a lot of hair pulling.

And if you want a single action 9mm, just get a High Power and be done with it.

Regards.
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Please don't tell that to the 3 RIA 1911 9mm guns and the 2 STI 1911 9mm guns that I own as the have never had any problems
 
vaskeet said:
Please don't tell that to the 3 RIA 1911 9mm guns and the 2 STI 1911 9mm guns that I own as the have never had any problems
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I've never denied that many 1911 pistols in the caliber do run just fine. I know that they do. I also know the problems that I've seen with them over the years, and how frustrating they can be to correct...and why. I won't argue these points. My only reason for responding was to provide information. What you do with that information is up to you.
 
My Dan Wesson spring is 9 lbs if I remember correctly. Is the reduced tension and slow movement of the slide what allows the extraction to work properly? 9 lbs is odd for a 1911.
 
BlackGun said:
My Dan Wesson spring is 9 lbs if I remember correctly. Is the reduced tension and slow movement of the slide what allows the extraction to work properly? 9 lbs is odd for a 1911.
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My DW Valor came with a 10lb spring
 
Millie said:
My brand new 1911 9mm RIA is having issues. It was cleaned on Monday, and the issue of the slide locking back after each of the first 3-4 rounds seemed to be solved with a good feed ramp polishing on Wednesday.
I shot 6 boxes of 9mm today and things went well until about box #4, when the locking slide began again, and by box #6 I'd had one stovepipe and two rounds that I got out of the chamber which had the front end pushed in. (I had had one of these rounds during our lesson Wednesday, too.) I quit after box #6.
Alex looked at the magazine and said it seemed to be bent at the top front. He had Pete look at it, and he bent it back to where it needed to be, but it's still got a little divot. They didn't have any 9mm magazines for me to buy.

Once I got outside I put the full magazine in the gun and tried to rack the slide. It wouldn't go, so I pulled the magazine out and noticed that the round had a gash in the tip. No more 9mm as carry gun!

I'd like to know what y'all think may be the issue. Is the gun doing something to bend the magazine? Is the round coming up pushing the top of the magazine out because of the internals of the gun having an issue, or did I get a funky mag and it just took ~800-1,000 rounds to show up?
I plan to contact the company and ask for another magazine, and tell them what's going on and see what they have to say.

Any advice you have will be appreciated. I'm feeling awful that my (possible) new carry gun choice has an issue. The Sig is now back on my belt, and hasn't had any issues that would make me not trust it. I hope the 9mm will be as reliable once the issue is identified and dealt with.
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Millie, I'm going to jump in here only because I read your post and wanted to know....6 boxes of ammo?? Kudos for finding the platform and handgun YOU feel comfortable firing. Even some high end 1911's can and DO have issues. My suggestion would be to bring a bore snake and lubricating oil next trip. In between boxes and while empty, run the bore snake through and lubricate the front of the barrel and the chamber. Then start over with your new box. My 1911 likes to be slick, not sloppy with oil. Good luck! I just went back and read (what I should have done first..sorry!) that I was just saying what the others have said. If it's new, you can always send it back and let THEM work on it. Then it's their problem.
 
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Graywolf said:
Millie, I'm going to jump in here only because I read your post and wanted to know....6 boxes of ammo?? Kudos for finding the platform and handgun YOU feel comfortable firing. Even some high end 1911's can and DO have issues. My suggestion would be to bring a bore snake and lubricating oil next trip. In between boxes and while empty, run the bore snake through and lubricate the front of the barrel and the chamber. Then start over with your new box. My 1911 likes to be slick, not sloppy with oil. Good luck! I just went back and read (what I should have done first..sorry!) that I was just saying what the others have said. If it's new, you can always send it back and let THEM work on it. Then it's their problem.
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I do have a snake in my bag, and some lube! Lol. I'll do as you suggest and see what happens.

I plan to call RIA and see if my gun was supposed to come with 2 magazines, and if so ask them to send me 2, and if it came with just one, then I want a new one.
I'll tell them what's been going on and see how they want to handle things. I also shot 6 boxes tonight, with a couple of hiccups, a stovepipe and a magazine that I really had to work to get out of the gun. Maybe the more regular lubing will help.

I'm glad I found "the gun" too, and I hope its problems can be dealt with.....
 
Millie said:
I do have a snake in my bag, and some lube! Lol. I'll do as you suggest and see what happens.

I plan to call RIA and see if my gun was supposed to come with 2 magazines, and if so ask them to send me 2, and if it came with just one, then I want a new one.
I'll tell them what's been going on and see how they want to handle things. I also shot 6 boxes tonight, with a couple of hiccups, a stovepipe and a magazine that I really had to work to get out of the gun. Maybe the more regular lubing will help.

I'm glad I found "the gun" too, and I hope its problems can be dealt with.....
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I might have missed it but have you been using the same ammo? All 115g stuff? I had issues with a 9mm 1911 with some ammo. Some ammo is pretty weak. I actually bought a bunch of Fiocchi just to break in one gun since it was a little hotter than the cheap stuff made in the US. Also bought some 147g to break in an HK I own. I’d also take Mr. Travis’s comments to heart. His 1911 knowledge is very good. My take away is don’t rely on a 9mm 1911 for your life. Range toy and fun, yes. Then time spent learning the gun and fixing its issues is good experience and never fatal.
 
John Travis said:
After watching this one for a while, I decided to break down and try to offer Millie a little help.

There are reasons that the 9mm cartridge is just wrong for the 1911 platform...the very reaons that I never owned one and never will.

The OAL is too short and the tiny rim and extractor groove require heavy modification to an extractor that was designed to work with the .45 Auto's case dimensions.

Because of the extractor groove, the tip of the extractor claw is used to place tension on the case in the bottom of the extractor groove instead of the tensioning wall bearing against the rim. A little too much tension, and you get feed problems. Back off enough for reliable feed/return to bettery, and you run into extraction and.or ejection problems. Take enough off the claw to bring the tensioning wall into contact with the rim, and it's too short to hang onto the case and bring it out of the chamber. One of the tricky things about running a cartridge with the pressure levels of the 9mm is that the extractor has to work harder to pull it clear. Add to that a very short claw, and it gets tricky.

Finally...even with a light recoil spring...the 115 grain ammunition barely generates enough recoil impetus to drive the slide and barrel backward with authority. The 124 grain stuff is better. The 147 grain offering is better still.

That delicate balance, coupled with the too short OAL is, while a 1911 may be okay for a range toy...if you get one that runs...I'd never recommend carrying one for serious purpose. They can be made to run...if the wrench understands what he's doing and why...but it tries one's patience, and patience is something that I've run short of in my old age.

Millie, if you want to run a mid-bore in the 1911, my advice is to have the barrel rechambered to .38 Super. It won't require nearly as much patience to get it to behave. The ammunition is more expensive to be sure, but it'll save you a lot of hair pulling.

And if you want a single action 9mm, just get a High Power and be done with it.

Regards.
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Wow, that's a lot of info. I'll need to read that a few times...lol.
So the higher grain rounds will have more recoil, right? Maybe I need to try them, and see if I can handle them.
I'm not at the hair-pulling stage yet....but might be getting close! Lol. I'm annoyed that my gun won't act right all of a sudden, after 2 perfect weeks of shooting it! I just don't get it.
I'll talk to the company and see.
What is .38 Super? How much does it cost to get a barrel redone? Not thinking about doing this, just gathering info.
Right now I'm just going to concentrate on getting better with the original carry gun, the p238. I don't shoot it as well, but I'm ok with it, I could hit more or less in a salad plate size area.
I'm frustrated, but have to keep on with training, and that's with my original carry gun. I'll keep on with the 9mm a bit, because it's so nice to shoot when it's acting right.

Something will work out, I'm sure! The 9mm will work or it won't, and eventually I plan to get a .45, and then that will be my carry gun, since I shoot one of those better than any of my current guns anyhow! Lol.
 
Travis made my 1911 run several years ago. It was not a cheap one either. I will forever be in his debt for fixing one of my favorite .45's. He is a wealth of information when it comes to the 1911.
 
CZfool68 said:
I might have missed it but have you been using the same ammo? All 115g stuff? I had issues with a 9mm 1911 with some ammo. Some ammo is pretty weak. I actually bought a bunch of Fiocchi just to break in one gun since it was a little hotter than the cheap stuff made in the US. Also bought some 147g to break in an HK I own. I’d also take Mr. Travis’s comments to heart. His 1911 knowledge is very good. My take away is don’t rely on a 9mm 1911 for your life. Range toy and fun, yes. Then time spent learning the gun and fixing its issues is good experience and never fatal.
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Yes, all the ammo has been the same, 115 gr. Blazer Brass. I plan to try some different grains in there. But I hope it's not that, as I just opened the new box of 1,000 rounds!
I do use Fiocchi in the p238, it loves that stuff! Got about 8 boxes of that, and good thing, as I'm going to have to let up on the shooting with the 9mm, and get back on the .380. Not a problem, as I love the gun , I just shoot bigger guns better.
 
Graywolf said:
Travis made my 1911 run several years ago. It was not a cheap one either. I will forever be in his debt for fixing one of my favorite .45's. He is a wealth of information when it comes to the 1911.
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Maybe my 9mm needs to visit him! Lol.
 
Latest news. I've been in contact with RIA via email, hoping they'll answer their phone eventually. They asked if I had changed the recoil spring, and I said nope, I've only gotten 2 new magazines, which are also having issues.....intermittently. Like the original magazine did. I told them I haven't done anything to the gun apart from giving it nice new expensive magazines to play with. And cleaning it.

Except today, I shot 100 rounds and the gun did as perfectly as it did the first 2 weeks! I just don't get it! Lol.
Going back for more tomorrow, then giving it a good cleaning, and I'll keep on going till the next thing happens.
 
If I read correctly, every time you clean the pistol it runs perfect for a short period then acts up. Sounds to me like the pistol is running dry in critical places after you clean it. Probably need to try some 3 in 1 oil/type f auto trans fluid on the initial contact area between the hammer and slide, the barrel hooks and locking lugs as well as the barrel where it contacts the barrel bushing. Heck, a bath in the stuff won't hurt, just keep it out of the barrels interior, bad things happen when you oil that area, good luck.
 
Dale Flinchum said:
If I read correctly, every time you clean the pistol it runs perfect for a short period then acts up. Sounds to me like the pistol is running dry in critical places after you clean it. Probably need to try some 3 in 1 oil/type f auto trans fluid on the initial contact area between the hammer and slide, the barrel hooks and locking lugs as well as the barrel where it contacts the barrel bushing. Heck, a bath in the stuff won't hurt, just keep it out of the barrels interior, bad things happen when you oil that area, good luck.
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I'll have to look up most of those terms, except I do know about the barrel bushing. Lol. It was cleaned, then lubed/oiled. Then it had issues, but today it was perfect. Perfect! So confusing.
 
Millie said:
I'll have to look up most of those terms, except I do know about the barrel bushing. Lol. It was cleaned, then lubed/oiled. Then it had issues, but today it was perfect. Perfect! So confusing.
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What he's saying is they don't like to run "dry". Meaning in this case not adequately lubricated.
 
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