What did you do in the reloading room today?

Lets see... I wet tumbled about 1400 9mm cases for a friend that always brings me other stuff for trade. He like to scrounge for brass and always brings me something I can use. Then I wet tumbled about 1000 .40S&W cases. But then I had the chance to pick up a nice work bench, with the really thick laminated bench surface, so I moved out the old rickety work bench I had and moved in the new bench. I am seriously thinking about getting the bench mounting plate system from Inline Fabrication so I can mount one of my presses, or bench vise, or whatever I want, but still have a clear working surface whenever I need one.

I still need to get out there and put things back in place so that I have room to do some serious loading before my trip down to Battery Oaks this weekend. :)
 
Didn’t load anything this weekend. I did sort another coffee can full of 9mm, looking for the evil stepped brass.
 
Lets see... I wet tumbled about 1400 9mm cases for a friend that always brings me other stuff for trade. He like to scrounge for brass and always brings me something I can use. Then I wet tumbled about 1000 .40S&W cases. But then I had the chance to pick up a nice work bench, with the really thick laminated bench surface, so I moved out the old rickety work bench I had and moved in the new bench. I am seriously thinking about getting the bench mounting plate system from Inline Fabrication so I can mount one of my presses, or bench vise, or whatever I want, but still have a clear working surface whenever I need one.

I still need to get out there and put things back in place so that I have room to do some serious loading before my trip down to Battery Oaks this weekend. :)
As you know I have been using the bench mounting from inline. Just installed the rail system in the new reloading room. I would give it 4 out of 5 stars. The only reason I dropped the 5th star is because I feel it is not heavy-duty enough for a T7 press to hang on. I have a 2x6 behind wall and with the largest lag bolts screwed in all the holes, there is still more movement then I want. Still made it work for Lee press and die setups I have. Quick change mounting for inline works great.
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As you know I have been using the bench mounting from inline. Just installed the rail system in the new reloading room. I would give it 4 out of 5 stars. The only reason I dropped the 5th star is because I feel it is not heavy-duty enough for a T7 press to hang on. I have a 2x6 behind wall and with the largest lag bolts screwed in all the holes, there is still more movement then I want. Still made it work for Lee press and die setups I have. Quick change mounting for inline works great.
View attachment 161070
The bench I just moved in is HEAVY. It has a 36" x 72" top, with really sold legs. I am hoping that I won't have to lag it to the wall.
 
The bench I just moved in is HEAVY. It has a 36" x 72" top, with really sold legs. I am hoping that I won't have to lag it to the wall.

currently running or "starting to run" an XL750. it is on a lightweight, temporary work surface. There is a piece of 1/2" plywood and a 5/8" thickness of particle board on the top. Was NEVER meant for HD reloading.....but it is convenient. It has a 2x2 frame and shelf supports. Was mean for "banker box" storage. BUT, the top is screwed securely to a backsplash 2x4.....and that is lagged to the studs in the attic. The Dillon is mounted very securely.....

Just running a few boxes tells me that if I were going to keep this surface, I would add a 3/4" plywood top and some front 2x4 braces.....you can feel the fore and aft movement.

Will be interesting to see if you gorilla workbench works.....if on carpet, I'll give you good odds it won't. All the blogs and such and Dillon's tech support say that the force required for running the press "consistently" to get uniform powder charges on even a battleship bench is not gonna be satisfactory, unless it is on Hardwood and that might be marginal.

Will be interesting....
 
currently running or "starting to run" an XL750. it is on a lightweight, temporary work surface. There is a piece of 1/2" plywood and a 5/8" thickness of particle board on the top. Was NEVER meant for HD reloading.....but it is convenient. It has a 2x2 frame and shelf supports. Was mean for "banker box" storage. BUT, the top is screwed securely to a backsplash 2x4.....and that is lagged to the studs in the attic. The Dillon is mounted very securely.....

Just running a few boxes tells me that if I were going to keep this surface, I would add a 3/4" plywood top and some front 2x4 braces.....you can feel the fore and aft movement.

Will be interesting to see if you gorilla workbench works.....if on carpet, I'll give you good odds it won't. All the blogs and such and Dillon's tech support say that the force required for running the press "consistently" to get uniform powder charges on even a battleship bench is not gonna be satisfactory, unless it is on Hardwood and that might be marginal.

Will be interesting....
I ran 2 650s on a Sam's work bench on carpet for years. Had zero trouble and a SD of less than 3 on 9mm and 45 acp. 20150118_215157.jpg
 
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I ran 2 650s on a Sam's work bench on carpet for years. Had zero trouble and a SD of less than 3 on 9mm and 45 acp. View attachment 161154

With your credentials, I can't argue.....Results often outweigh technical support and also consensus of opinions.

My workbench or more appropriately "work station cabinet" will be lagged to the wall per Dillon's advice...

Curiosity, When you say SD of 3, what do you mean. Typically, my SD for my RCBS Uniflo are under 0.05....and technically, from an engineering and statistical perspective or calculation standpoint...that is as low and as accurate as you can get since it is impossible to read a beam balance scale to < 0.05 Gr. That is....unless you have an electronic scale and have it calibrated.... and allow for the settling time of the electronics....

In other words, if you use the Excel function of Stdev.S for the "Samples", then on a 15 piece sample, taken from a population of 100 (two boxes), my calculated SD is 0.039X or so. However, based on the rules or "laws" of significant digits....the SD, I think, should be rounded up to 0.05.

Your results may vary if you have an electron scale that is accurate to 3 decimals.....which I don't.

Just curious....not doubting....but don't understand.... Thanks in advance for explaining this to me....
 
With your credentials, I can't argue.....Results often outweigh technical support and also consensus of opinions.

My workbench or more appropriately "work station cabinet" will be lagged to the wall per Dillon's advice...

Curiosity, When you say SD of 3, what do you mean. Typically, my SD for my RCBS Uniflo are under 0.05....and technically, from an engineering and statistical perspective or calculation standpoint...that is as low and as accurate as you can get since it is impossible to read a beam balance scale to < 0.05 Gr. That is....unless you have an electronic scale and have it calibrated.... and allow for the settling time of the electronics....

In other words, if you use the Excel function of Stdev.S for the "Samples", then on a 15 piece sample, taken from a population of 100 (two boxes), my calculated SD is 0.039X or so. However, based on the rules or "laws" of significant digits....the SD, I think, should be rounded up to 0.05.

Your results may vary if you have an electron scale that is accurate to 3 decimals.....which I don't.

Just curious....not doubting....but don't understand.... Thanks in advance for explaining this to me....
The SD I was referring to: SD = Standard Deviations for FPS of each round. A low SD doesn't always relate to an accurate round, but it is a good start.
You are over thinking it. Reloading is not that hard. Most people cant shoot as accurate as the gun nor the round.
A lot of people worry about what press is best, what scale is best, "what is best". Don't!!! Remember you can get to work on a Yugo, its just more fun in a Corvette. I use my Lee press more than the others. And it produces very accurate rounds.

Just be safe and have fun.
 
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For the first couple of years, I had a Harbor Freight woodworking bench, on carpet, not fastened to a wall. I ran my Dillon 550 without much problem, though I did have to hold the press when seating primers. I'm still using that same bench, but it is on a tiled floor in my reloading shack.

I can't argue the point about a solidly mounted press being more consistent, but in the grand scheme of things the extra consistency may be lost in the noise floor compared to all the other variables. If I were wanting the utmost in precision, I would be running a Forster coax press, and manually dropping powder in each round with a lab grade precision scale. I would measure the water volume of each case, and sort all the bullets by length and weight. I would probably never notice the difference at the range, except that I would not be shooting nearly as much.
 
The SD I was referring to: SD = Standard Deviations for FPS of each round. A low SD doesn't always relate to an accurate round, but it is a good start.
You are over thinking it. Reloading is not that hard. Most people cant shoot as accurate as the gun nor the round.
A lot of people worry about what press is best, what scale is best, "what is best". Don't!!! Remember you can get to work on a Yugo, its just more fun in a Corvette. I use my Lee press more than the others. And it produces very accurate rounds.

Just be safe and have fun.

Thanks for qualifying your statement. No argument that a 3 FPS SD is excellent. I need to get a chronograph someday. But for the interim, the only variable in my reloading is the powder charges. Minute differences in case volumes and concentricities of bullets and bullet weights are orders of magnitude less than the variation or SD of charge weights.

Totally agree that 99.97% (three Sigma) of the banging population can’t shoot any more accurately than factory. However, I have finally reached the stage where I can evaluate ammo and know from group sizes and shapes that my handloads are more accurate.

I guess being, among other things of somewhat notable acclaim, a retired manufacturing and process engineer and having been trained in the Deming ways, I tend to apply those principles to my reloading.

YES...any press that has good dies and is set up properly will produce consistent loads. Again, the largest room for error is in the charging. Like the proverbial blind hog, I finally ordered a small pistol charge cylinder for my 50 YO RCBS and then tuned it and then added an Uncle Nick’s powder baffle. Powders like VV N-series and CFE Pistol and TiteGroup and Bullseye are always dead on. Even Unique now can be held to around 0.05 SD.

Having been on of the Automative Suppliers for Yugo components, we were supplied a fleet of Yugos and we were allowed to drive them for a month or so. Yes....it always got me to work and to the airport and such. But, now, I am on my third Vette (C7 Z51 Stingray), and YES it is a whole lot more fun....

Thanks for the perspective.....
 
For the first couple of years, I had a Harbor Freight woodworking bench, on carpet, not fastened to a wall. I ran my Dillon 550 without much problem, though I did have to hold the press when seating primers. I'm still using that same bench, but it is on a tiled floor in my reloading shack.

I can't argue the point about a solidly mounted press being more consistent, but in the grand scheme of things the extra consistency may be lost in the noise floor compared to all the other variables. If I were wanting the utmost in precision, I would be running a Forster coax press, and manually dropping powder in each round with a lab grade precision scale. I would measure the water volume of each case, and sort all the bullets by length and weight. I would probably never notice the difference at the range, except that I would not be shooting nearly as much.

All theories aside, you just nailed it. If you can eliminate variables, then you get, on a Dillon, more consistent loads. The major variable is the powder charging. As long as the press is properly sizing, belling, charging, “seating” and crimping....then if you breakdown the process....powder charging (retired manufacturing engineer background kicking in) is the most inconsistent.

I hope to have more hands on experience as I run mine. But, I spent a lot of time (could have been shooting) talking to expert marksmen, avid handloaders, and also one DILLON tech support....who is both. Slower production rates and concentration on methods and rhythm are the key.

But, to get the most consistent charging and “loads” from a Dillon....based on my research and common sense and also years of reducing product variations, you have to do the basics....

Powder selection to reduce variation is probably #1. I have a LOT of Unique and I will,use it up for fun and practice (shooting technique) but never would I expect it to outperform, in 9mm, CFE or VV N-330. The Bullseye Grand National or whatever shooters write a lot of informative articles and use that....

But if you can’t run a “uniform production rate” as in concistent cycle or time per bullet, then you have variation and that will translate into inconsistent powder charges. Adding a baffle helps.

The pros who shoot gazillions of rounds mount their presses solidly. They only run one headstamp. They only use one particular brand of primers. They set the resizing die to within 1/16” to get total full length sizing. They use a specially designed powder funnel with “RCBS Type M” dimensions or they don’t flare or bell on station 2, just drop powder, and set up a belling station on#3. I have a powder check and that is there....so eventually, I will buy a custom powder funnel. That makes seating or dropping in bullets easier and more consistent.

All these things reduce variation....

I guess that improving processes as well as improving my shooting techniques is just a “curse” and that is what I do...
 
Thanks for qualifying your statement. No argument that a 3 FPS SD is excellent. I need to get a chronograph someday. But for the interim, the only variable in my reloading is the powder charges. Minute differences in case volumes and concentricities of bullets and bullet weights are orders of magnitude less than the variation or SD of charge weights.

Totally agree that 99.97% (three Sigma) of the banging population can’t shoot any more accurately than factory. However, I have finally reached the stage where I can evaluate ammo and know from group sizes and shapes that my handloads are more accurate.

I guess being, among other things of somewhat notable acclaim, a retired manufacturing and process engineer and having been trained in the Deming ways, I tend to apply those principles to my reloading.

YES...any press that has good dies and is set up properly will produce consistent loads. Again, the largest room for error is in the charging. Like the proverbial blind hog, I finally ordered a small pistol charge cylinder for my 50 YO RCBS and then tuned it and then added an Uncle Nick’s powder baffle. Powders like VV N-series and CFE Pistol and TiteGroup and Bullseye are always dead on. Even Unique now can be held to around 0.05 SD.

Having been on of the Automative Suppliers for Yugo components, we were supplied a fleet of Yugos and we were allowed to drive them for a month or so. Yes....it always got me to work and to the airport and such. But, now, I am on my third Vette (C7 Z51 Stingray), and YES it is a whole lot more fun....

Thanks for the perspective.....
There is a lot wrong with your thinking that powder charge is #1. You might need to go weigh some of your bullets. You will find a big variation in brands, as in grains. I shoot a lot of 45 70. I now cast because of variations in weight. One manufacturer 405 grain weighed between 391 gr. to 416 gr. Also brass manufacturers have big variations in volume and thickness of brass. For example: the load I use in 308 Federal brass will not work Lapua brass. Lapua Brass has way less volume then Federal Brass. To the point of crushing and compacting powder. Which will in fact create more pressure to the point it could be unsafe. But my 308 rounds with Varget, federal brass, federal match primers, SD 3.4 (which can be improved on) has a 5 inch group at 1000 (with very little wind). I suck when winds are blowing. Toprudder can go into it even more. His name is MR.TEST.
 
There is a lot wrong with your thinking that powder charge is #1. You might need to go weigh some of your bullets. You will find a big variation in brands, as in grains. I shoot a lot of 45 70. I now cast because of variations in weight. One manufacturer 405 grain weighed between 391 gr. to 416 gr. Also brass manufacturers have big variations in volume and thickness of brass. For example: the load I use in 308 Federal brass will not work Lapua brass. Lapua Brass has way less volume then Federal Brass. To the point of crushing and compacting powder. Which will in fact create more pressure to the point it could be unsafe. But my 308 rounds with Varget, federal brass, federal match primers, SD 3.4 (which can be improved on) has a 5 inch group at 1000 (with very little wind). I suck when winds are blowing. Toprudder can go into it even more. His name is MR.TEST.

I guess I did not qualify my comments or assumptions. My BE coach tests and shoots different bullets based on his conversations with other Camp Perry champions or winners.

I only shoot 9mm and 45. My comments were based on consistent loading of know components. In talking to him, I have been doing what he does or following the advice of competitive shooters in their blogs or forums.

I use Starline brass for both calibers. I use Blazer for “everyday” 9mm shooting. Variable or variation is now controlled

I shoot tested (BE) bullets or some recommendations from others. I have bought “a lot” of supposedly another members excess and it was a known brand, type, size, etc. Either he got a bad shipment or it was mixed. Two separate runs...flat base with shiny finish and dull with indentation on base. They are now sorted. So, by experimenting with one particular brand, type, model number or whatever .... another variable removed.

Sizing die set up so that deprimed cases drop freely in and out of Williams gauges. That eliminates a variable that Dillon was not picky about.

Belling or flaring is a function of case length. I know that my Starline cases will bell or flare 0.010-0.012. Same setup and Blazers, which are longer, will flare 0.013-0.015. But when you seat and crimp same bullet in each, the COAL is the same and the dummy loads easily pass the Wilson gauge.

I HAVE looked at weights for a small sample of certain bullets. I don’t need an Excel spreadsheet to look at the % variation or the weights to know they are at least an order of magnitude less that the powder charge variation.

so....back to my original assumptions....I think they are correct for my shooting and evaluation. Given that, then from a consistency standpoint, you control the largest variable to maximize results.

now....do I point the barrel up, down or forward and bang or tap the frame so that the powder level, for each round, is consistent. Nope....but some folks do and publish the chrono results and SD....as well as minimizing the COAL...

NOT THERE YET...

Appreciate your comments, but I think mine are correct knowing the circumstances and assumptions...
 
I feel like a big ol' dummy after the last several posts.

I just loaded up 100rds of .41Mag to take to the shindig. 240gr Keiths over a healthy pour of 2400. They average 1200fps from my 5.5"er & 1270fps from the 7.5"er. Fairly sportin' & pleasant to shoot.
 
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Loaded 650 9mm on the Dillon XL750. Learned how to clear primer jam as well as do a changeover. Installed the revised or upgraded primer feeder parts and talked to Dillon tech support and gave them feedback and suggestions.

Processed 300 cases. Still learning how to tweak and adjust. No major issues or feeding problems. Had to “condition” the powder adjustment as I switched from an extruded to a small flake (VV N-330 to CFE Pistol). Took several cycles and test drops. Powder measure now dispenses either powder within 0.05. Did several samples during each run.

Next task is to switch tool heads and start running 45 ACP’s next week.

It takes about as much time to fill primer tubes and also to package the finished rounds. I may start to bulk package and go by weights....instead of stuffing into holes.

Progress marches on.
 
It takes about as much time to fill primer tubes and also to package the finished rounds. I may start to bulk package and go by weights....instead of stuffing into holes.
When I had kids at home to load the tubes that saved time. No longer :-(

I check 9mm with a 100 round gauge and dump them in an ammo can. I load mags directly from the can at home and either take the can or one or two 100 round MTM boxes to the match/range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Over the past 2 weekends I cast somewhere North of 1100 9mm 147 projectiles, coated them with Hi-Tek and sized them. In the middle of loading them the shellplate bolt on my Dillon SDB broke leaving the ram near the top of the stroke with cases stuck in the sizing, powder, seater and crimp dies.

Gentle tapping after removing the tool head dislodged things and I had a spare shellplate bolt so the 'ole SDB was back in action pretty quick. Heck never a bad thing to clean the dies anyway. Since everything was apart I tossed the powder funnel / expander in the lathe worked over with some 800 grit then a final polish on a buffing wheel. My aim was to reduce the effort required to flare the cases for the lead bullets, seemed to help a bit.

The TLDR version: I loaded a bunch of 9mm subsonic ammo and finished off the last of my Solo 1000 powder.
 
Dillon XL750 Setup and Shakedown are completed. Spent maybe two weeks learning and experimenting. Ran about 1100 9mm first. Piece of cake....save some start-up issues and also got the "new parts" from Dillon. Their Tech Support is awesome. I DID sort of hook up with ONE tech that is a shooter and he will take my calls and walk me through the learning. No major issues with the 9mm. The XL750 was ordered in 9mm and setup for that.

I had ordered it FULL BORE....with everything for a caliber conversion and also a second Powder Measure. Therefore, when I swapped Calibers, I had ONE powder for each caliber. Decided that I like CFE Pistol for BOTH 9mm (all weights) and 45 in some 45 loads. BUT, I shoot VV N310 as well in 45 and VV N330 in 9mm. SO.... Ordered a THIRD Powder Measure. Now have one for CFE (and it works great for Unique if I want to just "GO BANG"); One for VV N-310; One for VV-N330.

Set up a COLOR Coding system for the Powder Cannisters and the Powder Measure Hoppers so I DON'T MIX THEM. Working on a Color Coded (EZ to SEE) Labeling System. Will use preprinted Color Coded Labels....Bullet Weight, and maybe by Powder....and definitely by Caliber. So, I can store my various boxes or containers of completed loads on a shelf and they will be subdivided and organized. A WORK IN PROGRESS.

Have made up charts for each Powder Measure. I purchased the Armanov "Dial" Scales or Powder Measure Adjustment kit. THAT is the nuts. I can find TWO points (or settings on the 50 division knob) for two separate weights....say 4.2 and 6.0 grains. I can (and have done this) almost hit the right division for say...5.0. Within ONE division. Eventually, I will have a chart for each powder and each measure and when I want to go from 4.0 to 4.2 t0 5.0 to 5.5 or 6.0....I will have the scale or dial setting. VERY PLEASED with this.

However, I REALLY learned MORE about how to run and setup and adjust (OK...a few ....DON"T DO THAT) when I switched to 45.

ShellPlate and Index. Yes...it is a simple. but you have to adjust the tension and the "friction". That to me is a finesse issue and also experience. Took a while. BUT, I discovered that the INDEXING is critical. Press was DEAD ON (Primer Seating) for 9mm. It required an adjustment of the "Index Cam Roller" to get it centered on 45. Don't know if I will have to do that each time. PROBLEM was in the Primer Seating. I was using up left over WW Dome LP and they are not the best choice. I had already purchased Federal as that is the defacto standard for the Dillon based on several high volume reloaders and BE shooters. LEARNED A LOT. Primers on the first box or so did not seat all the way. That was due to a mis alignment of the Index. FIXED that....

NOW...I DID learn that you have to READ and pay attention to details. Finally got all the pieces parts switched for the caliber conversion. The bowl feeder was totally seamless. MINOR speed adjustment on the disk drive.

Also came up with a quick and CHEAP fix for storing the Powder Measures and the Primer Tubes. The domed WW will sometime rotate or flip over in the tubes. Don't know why...but it happens.....still working on that. I found that if you lay them down or handle them excessively after they are filled, you may have an issue.

Took a 2 X 10 and cut it around 18". Drilled a 1" hole in each end and used a piece of 1/2" Black Iron Pipe (used Liquid Nails to glue and hold vertical) for the Powder Measure. I have the Armanov Quick Disconnect clamps, rathern than the stock Dillon tabs and set screws. So, you just sit the measures down on the pipe and they are perfect. I spaced them out so that each one is about 2" from each end. That center space will NOW be used for Primer Tube storage. Have 5 of each size. Will drill 6 or 7 holes on each side. Left will be Large and the Right Row will be Small. Will fill a primer tube and then flip it and put it in the hole. First Hole will be for FILLED....keep adding until all 5 are filled. That will then leave 2 spaces to the back. When you empty a tube and don't refill it....then you just put it in the back and move any filled ones to the front. You always have a spacer betwen them. Gonna us a Golf Tee to put in the TOP of one that was only partially filled or was "refilled" after a change. That way....the Partials will be labeled and the Filled ones will be in their spots and the empty (to be filled) will be at the back. That keeps them organized and also prevents excessive handling and potential primer flipping.

That's about it. OK>>>>>FINAL THOUGHT. I did add aftermarket baffles to each one. Prarie Dog from Amazon. YES, you can make them yourself for free using the Uncle Nick's PDF. That worked great on the RCBS, but I decided that I like the double baffle design and ordered them. That really improves the consistency of the charges.

The Dillon tech gave me a method for getting exact weights and set-up. It is simple....If anyone is interested, I will share it. Post is too long.

Have run 250 or so 45. The first 100 or so with the WW domed primers were shaky and I had a friend reseat or check the primer seating with his hand tool. Still had an occassional FTF, but restriking cured that. Once I improved (it was not fully or correctly adjusted as it is NOW), the FTF almost went away. With the Federal of the CORRECT Primer Cup Holder Indexing and Adjustment, all is well and they go BANG.

Shot a 50 or so box of them yesterday. Maybe it was that I was sitting down or just more confident or warmed up...but I had the best 25 yard group of 45's that I have ever shot and my friend, who is a much better shot....said.... WOW...that is some shooting. So, the proof of the pudding is the holes in the middle of the black.
 
Resized around 60 300 Black Out cases and about 125 223 cases. Then trimmed the 223 cases.
 
Sorted.....cleaned.....resized......cleaned again.....and organized a metric poop ton of brass. Now.....i finally get to load some rounds this week!!
 
Installed a shop light in the reloading area and printed a turning plate for flat nose bullets for my 3d printed bullet feeder.
 
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Let me see... Got a text from old @Bullseye Baldee wanting to know if I would go to the range with him since he was "thinking about sending 4 pounds of lead downrange", so I loaded up 35 rounds of 50AE real quick and packed up my stuff.

When we got back, I cleaned the guns up and sorted the brass.
 
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Playing around with some 300 BO bullets from Missouri Bullet Company. They are the 215 gn flat point bullets that I am having a hard time getting them to feel. I only have 75 of them left and decided to load 40 of them to 2.20". The max OAL is 2.25". If these do not work, I have no idea what to do with the 35. The other ones that I loaded the OAL was around 2.08 to 2.10".
I also loaded the 17 - 45-70 trap door load that were shot with H4198 and Missouri 405 lead. Then decided to prime 150 9 MM and will load them in the next day or so.
 
Needed to top off magazines for a class this weekend. 11:12 loaded 3 primer tubes. 11:28 got a bin of 200 rounds. @Butter I really like this thing!
cb17f7cbbf31e4c9acf9be909abea50a.jpg
 
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