PSA - Wake Co. Range to close to public 1/15/20

I won't be able to attend today's session but, will be watching the live stream.

ETA: The video from today's session will be available this evening here.
 
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The video has not yet been posted, but Channel 11 has their version of the truth on their web site. The reporter was our buddy DeJuan Hoggard who did the hatchet piece on our member, Carolina Smoke and Guns. And it's his usual quality, full of bias, misleading, inaccuracy and just plain ignorance. In the morning the N&O will probably have a piece that's actually useful.

However, it does appear that they are considering bringing in the Wildlife Resources Commission to run the public access.
 
The video has not yet been posted, but Channel 11 has their version of the truth on their web site. The reporter was our buddy DeJuan Hoggard who did the hatchet piece on our member, Carolina Smoke and Guns. And it's his usual quality, full of bias, misleading, inaccuracy and just plain ignorance. In the morning the N&O will probably have a piece that's actually useful.

However, it does appear that they are considering bringing in the Wildlife Resources Commission to run the public access.
I’m skeptical of anyone with a faux French name like DeJuan, SheNique, or Mao, Stalin, etc, etc.
 
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It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

"...said chief deputy director for NCWRC Kyle Briggs. "Obviously, our shooting ranges that we operate are always free to the public to use. So that would be our goal in this partnership."

This is pure conjecture (and I am a bit bitter about losing my job) but, will NCWC provide the same services that were previously offered at the facility? Training courses, leagues, competitions, target/ammo sales or equipment rentals for example. Do they have the resources to provide these? And they are going to do this for free?
 
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With your history and experience at this particular range, would you consider applying with the WRC to fill one of their staff positions at this range, if they do end up taking over management?

It is a possibility, however, I do know what they pay RO's at the other ranges they manage. I'd be better off as a greeter at Walmart.

And, again conjecture, it felt as if the county wanted all vestiges of the past gone, including staff.
 
I’ve been half following this, is the conjecture that Wildlife would staff and manage the range, or that they would manage the contract for the firm that manages the range?

Miss Lily, you may have useful information related to the facility for a bidder for the contract, or perhaps you want to put together a firm to bid on the contract? Lots of regulatory compliance I’m sure, so your best bet may be to pick a horse now and try to ride it to a new job.
 
It is a possibility, however, I do know what they pay RO's at the other ranges they manage. I'd be better off as a greeter at Walmart.

And, again conjecture, it felt as if the county wanted all vestiges of the past gone, including staff.
I dont feel like getting guns pointed at me for little pay. Most ranges just want a body in there. Care little about safety for the RSOs. Love meeting people that are true shooters. Dont care for the bucket list people. Too dangerous!
 
I dont know how they were "losing" money. I do know that when the range was first opened, the organization that was running it was making a tidy profit. How long has the range been open? My bad for not ever getting out there to check it out especially now that I'm shooting score benchrest. Long way from my house and their "open to the public" hours did not fit my schedule.
 
From WakeRange.com:

1/15/20 – FINAL UPDATE – Where do we go from here?

Sometime today, RSM senior management will head over to the range one last time to pick up the paperwork and odds and ends that constitute the company’s property remaining at the FETC. I would imagine that the flood of memories and the awkward glances from WCSO staff you used to consider friends will make it uncomfortable for the fellas – this is not how they deserved to go out. Just shameful.

If you watched the video from Monday’s work group you know that there are still many questions left unanswered. It will be interesting and instructive to keep an eye on doings at the WCFETC to see how it all eventually shakes out. Will they, in fact, continue to offer public access to the range or will Sheriff Baker get his dream of an LETC free from the vermin of the public (BTW, aren’t LEO’s citizens just like non-LEO’s?). If public hours are offered, will there be more than the 20 hours a week offered by RSM or fewer? [ED: My personal opinion – there WILL be public hours. There will be four of them between 8am and noon on Sundays, twice a month] Does my range card still get me in or do I need to pass another orientation to use the range? Do the annual members get a discount or refund? Any updates on that $100,000 Feasibility Study? And of course, how will the range become MORE profitable if you’re running it FREE to the public?

We here at WakeRange.com will be stepping back from the daily monitoring of the situation but we’ll not step down. 8500 people signed Mark Valetta’s petition, WakeRange.com has been accessed 2000 times, 300-ish people actually showed up for the Commission meeting on the 6th – that’s a lot of folks with a passion for keeping the range accessible and safe for the shooters of Wake County. That’s also a lot of eyes and ears that can watch and listen for updates on circumstances at the Wake County Firearms Education and Training Center. Over the next several weeks and months if you see or hear of any developments please ping a quick email to [email protected] or tweet to @TheProfounds . We’ll continue to update this site as a resource for all concerned. Also, we’ve listed the email addresses of each of the County Commissioners on the website for your convenience. It seems important that they be kept informed of the consequences of their actions as time goes by.

It has been a true pleasure and honor serving as your RO’s, Instructors and friends over these many years. The warm memories will be with us always.



 
From WakeRange.com:

1/15/20 – FINAL UPDATE – Where do we go from here?

Sometime today, RSM senior management will head over to the range one last time to pick up the paperwork and odds and ends that constitute the company’s property remaining at the FETC. I would imagine that the flood of memories and the awkward glances from WCSO staff you used to consider friends will make it uncomfortable for the fellas – this is not how they deserved to go out. Just shameful.

If you watched the video from Monday’s work group you know that there are still many questions left unanswered. It will be interesting and instructive to keep an eye on doings at the WCFETC to see how it all eventually shakes out. Will they, in fact, continue to offer public access to the range or will Sheriff Baker get his dream of an LETC free from the vermin of the public (BTW, aren’t LEO’s citizens just like non-LEO’s?). If public hours are offered, will there be more than the 20 hours a week offered by RSM or fewer? [ED: My personal opinion – there WILL be public hours. There will be four of them between 8am and noon on Sundays, twice a month] Does my range card still get me in or do I need to pass another orientation to use the range? Do the annual members get a discount or refund? Any updates on that $100,000 Feasibility Study? And of course, how will the range become MORE profitable if you’re running it FREE to the public?

We here at WakeRange.com will be stepping back from the daily monitoring of the situation but we’ll not step down. 8500 people signed Mark Valetta’s petition, WakeRange.com has been accessed 2000 times, 300-ish people actually showed up for the Commission meeting on the 6th – that’s a lot of folks with a passion for keeping the range accessible and safe for the shooters of Wake County. That’s also a lot of eyes and ears that can watch and listen for updates on circumstances at the Wake County Firearms Education and Training Center. Over the next several weeks and months if you see or hear of any developments please ping a quick email to [email protected] or tweet to @TheProfounds . We’ll continue to update this site as a resource for all concerned. Also, we’ve listed the email addresses of each of the County Commissioners on the website for your convenience. It seems important that they be kept informed of the consequences of their actions as time goes by.

It has been a true pleasure and honor serving as your RO’s, Instructors and friends over these many years. The warm memories will be with us always.



To all my friends that I have made there! May we meet up again somewhere!!!
 
This was in the newspaper today, and is probably the most troubling thing I've read from any Commissioner:

"Wake County Commissioner Vice Chair Vickie Adamson said she spent a lot of time learning about the center. She said there are many government facilities that are taxpayer funded without being accessible to the public."

I think it's time to give her some special attention.
 
It would appear someone needs to remind her why the range was built in the first place and that with the population increases since that time there is a greater need for the facility to remain open for the public.
 
It would appear someone needs to remind her why the range was built in the first place and that with the population increases since that time there is a greater need for the facility to remain open for the public.
Does anyone know if Pittman-Robertson funds were used to build the range? (Excise tax on guns and ammo, for ranges, wildlife projects). If the WRC will be involved they should be able to get grants for improvements for Public Use with P-R funds.
 
Posted this update to the other related thread as well. This came via email earlier today.


WCFETC Members and Students,


I’m writing you today to provide you with an update on the Wake County range public closure. Over the past several weeks since I wrote last, there has been a significant amount of activity. There are things that have started to become clear and I wanted to keep you updated.


First, we have established a website to post ongoing information and provide updates. The site name is
www.wakerange.com. You can subscribe and receive periodic emails with updated information. I will continue to send periodic emails but I encourage you to subscribe.


Current Status:


  1. It appears that the Wake County Commissioners (WCC) are moving in the direction of giving operational management to the NC Wildlife Resources Commission (NCWRC). This information comes from two sources. First, in the last WCC’s working session, the only option that was proposed and discussed was an agreement with NCWRC. Second, personal contacts with both the WCC and NCWRC confirm this focus.
  2. Several of us met last Monday with NCWRC to offer our assistance with their efforts to reopen the range. The meeting was very well received by all and we are in the process of gathering and providing operational data to NCWRC for their management proposal to the WCCs.
  3. We expect NCWRC to make a presentation of their management proposal at the next WCC working session on February 10. Based on the outcome of the presentation, the WCCs may vote on awarding a management agreement to NCWRC at the WCC regular meeting on February 17.
  4. Once the contract is finalized, NCWRC will begin the process of taking management control of the range and reopening it to the public. The timeline for this activity is not known.
  5. Indications are that NCWRC will focus first on reopening the range for public shooting and later address re-establishing the education programs and leagues.



What we are doing:


  1. We will continue to work as close as possible with NCWRC to facilitate their being awarded the facility management and re-open the range.
  2. Several of us will attend both the upcoming WCC working session and regular meeting.
  3. Due to the implied delay in re-establishing the education program, we are considering providing offsite training covering the Wake Range education program. Stand by for more information on this effort.

Thanks for your continuing support as we work through this issue. Feel free to reach out with any questions and I will respond as quickly as possible.




John Neblett


WCFETC Instructor and Range Officer
 
UPDATE – 2/4/20 - Important Board of Commissioners Work Session next Monday!

It is anticipated that the NC Wildlife Resources Commission will be presenting their plan to re-open the Wake County Firearms Education and Training Center at a work session of the Wake Commissioners on Monday Feb 10 at 2pm. You can certainly swing by but this is a work session – there will be no public speakers and very few seats. Better to show up in force at their regular session on the 17th where it is hoped something substantial like the Wildlife plan will be approved.



You can find the Agenda and ultimately the LIVESTREAM and VIDEO HERE.



Range denizens will probably want to tune in to the LIVESTREAM next Monday afternoon as it could be the first and most hopeful presentation of our way back to public hours at the range to date . As you can see above, it's been awhile. Keep your fingers crossed.

More info at WakeRange.com.
 
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Here's my take away from Monday's (February 10th) Work Session of the Commissioners:

The WCSO stated objective has been to convert the WCFETC to a LETC. Today, the WCSO made significant progress with this objective. I base this on the WCSO increased access, to wit:

In addition to the normal WCSO access of M-F, 8am to 5pm, they also picked up Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday evenings.
The public has been relegated to Friday evenings, all day Saturday and Sunday, and Monday evenings.

1. As previously supplied by GSA, the WCSO only uses the facility 30% of the time for in-service training of its personnel during the weekday 8am-5pm hours. The WCSO has more than sufficient access to facilitate its in-service training requirements. Also according to GSA, the WCFETC is used 52% of the time for non-Wake County law enforcement agencies. I highly doubt this was the intended purpose of this facility when it was build.

2. The WCSO gave up nothing, yet picked up three additional evenings.

3. The public gave up three valuable week night evenings. We gained additional weekend hours on Saturday and Sunday. However, I argue those hours were always on the table because LEO is not going to train during this time period. Furthermore, these "additional" public weekend hours were often already being used for Leagues, Special Events, and Classes. In essence, the public is being told they are gaining more hours, which hours we already had.

4. I argue this IS NOT a good deal for the public.

5. The WCSO now has up to 12 months to prove the LETC model. Make no mistake about it, the WCFETC is now a LETC.

6. GSA (and Commissioners, along with County Staff) will argue a win/win solution based on many factors, including "in-kind" exchange. Wake County is providing the facility and Wildlife is providing the staffing, supplies, etc. for public hours. Both parties are doing this for FREE. Free is not a viable long term solution. RSM typically threw off over $50k to the WCSO budget. Do not buy into the WCSO financial argument. Do Not buy into the free is good argument. At some point, GSA will use "public hours not sustainable" and we will be gone.

7. If we press, we are going to get fed "hiring a consultant" and this will all get figured out. Once again, the public will have no say in this "arrangement", the outcome of which is highly uncertain.

8. Yes, public hours are being restored, but we lost the war today. WCSO, with the extended access, limited the public substantially. Some will argue that at least we're now open again, but I will argue that I don't see how we get those critical week night hours back. I will also argue that the WCFETC is now a LETC.

9. Wildlife wants the WCFETC. We need them to take those weeknight hours back for public use.
 
Does anyone know if Pittman-Robertson funds were used to build the range? (Excise tax on guns and ammo, for ranges, wildlife projects). If the WRC will be involved they should be able to get grants for improvements for Public Use with P-R funds.
No, Pittman-Robertson funds were not used to build the Wake County Firearms Education and Training Center. However, these funds may be available in the future and are an important source of funding for the WRC. It would be nice if the WRC deployed some of these funds NOW to block the expansion of WCSO hours. My concern is that once we give those hours up, it's less likely that we will ever get them back.
 
The WakeCo taxpayers need to demand accounting of the ACTUAL HOURS the WCSO uses the range. Not standing around eating donuts and BS'ing but actually on the firing line pulling the trigger. They can BS and eat donuts somewhere else like Krispy Kreme. I dont remember the WCSO's training and certification requirements being part of the original intent for the facility. The way I remember it, it was to be a SAFE PLACE FOR THE TAXPAYERS OF WAKE CO TO SHOOT.
 
The WakeCo taxpayers need to demand accounting of the ACTUAL HOURS the WCSO uses the range. Not standing around eating donuts and BS'ing but actually on the firing line pulling the trigger. They can BS and eat donuts somewhere else like Krispy Kreme. I dont remember the WCSO's training and certification requirements being part of the original intent for the facility. The way I remember it, it was to be a SAFE PLACE FOR THE TAXPAYERS OF WAKE CO TO SHOOT.
Very Well Said! I will add one correction. It was also to be used for "LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT personnel to MAINTAIN their skills". This was never intended to be a law enforcement training center, and particularly not a law enforcement training center serving non Wake County agencies. Here we go again. Elected officials spending Taxpayer dollars on something we taxpayers didn't intend.
 
I noticed there's mention of other LEO agencies using the facility 52% of the time. Who are they paying for the use of the facility? If they are not directly paying for the wear and tear and future upgrades and maintenance something needs to be done about that. Likewise, if they are paying the WCSO for access and the monies are not being transferred back into the facility or back to the taxpayers...
 
UPDATE - 2/12/20 - Video and half a loaf

So, public hours will tentatively resume on March 15th. The public hours will be

Friday 5p to 9p
Saturday 9a to 7p
Sunday 9a to 7p
Monday 5p to 9p


Like a lot of ranges these days, you’ll have to watch a video, sign a waiver and get a card. It's thought that all 4 ranges will be open but nothing concrete on that front yet. Also nothing concrete on the training programs and leagues. It's hard to have an Education and Training Center without education and training but know that it will take some time to re-build that part of the business at the range.

And yes, it will be FREE to the public just like all the other Wildlife ranges.


More info at WakeRange.com.
 
I noticed there's mention of other LEO agencies using the facility 52% of the time. Who are they paying for the use of the facility? If they are not directly paying for the wear and tear and future upgrades and maintenance something needs to be done about that. Likewise, if they are paying the WCSO for access and the monies are not being transferred back into the facility or back to the taxpayers...
Some of the 52% pay, some don't. Definitely some quid pro quo and back scratching going on. GSA is allegedly fixing these irregularities. However, I don't believe as Wake County taxpayers, we need to be paying to for the training facilities for non Wake County Agencies. Nor was this why the facility was originally built. Wake County citizens are getting a raw deal.
 
Unacceptable to me. I'm retired. I want to shoot 9 to 5 during the week. I'll probably never shoot there unless they have BR matches anyway but as a WakeCo taxpayer I'd sure join in a class action lawsuit.
9-5 weekdays aren't an option unfortunately. Glad to hear you'd join a class action lawsuit if grounds can be found to commence one. Stay tuned.
 
UPDATE - 2/12/20 - Video and half a loaf

So, public hours will tentatively resume on March 15th. The public hours will be

Friday 5p to 9p
Saturday 9a to 7p
Sunday 9a to 7p
Monday 5p to 9p

Like a lot of ranges these days, you’ll have to watch a video, sign a waiver and get a card. It's thought that all 4 ranges will be open but nothing concrete on that front yet. Also nothing concrete on the training programs and leagues. It's hard to have an Education and Training Center without education and training but know that it will take some time to re-build that part of the business at the range.

And yes, it will be FREE to the public just like all the other Wildlife ranges.


More info at WakeRange.com.

Public didn't really gain anything. We used the facility often on Saturday and Sunday mornings for Special Events and Leagues. Total hours above are 28 for public use. Contractually, we had up to 25 hours before. So in essence, the public picked up three hours and the WCSO picked up three evenings. Giving up week nights and moving three additional hours into the weekend shut out the Leagues, Action Pistol alone was 300 members being displaced. Seems equitable? I think NOT.
 
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Giving up week nights and moving three additional hours into the weekend shut out the Leagues, Action Pistol alone was 300 members being displaced. Seems equitable? I think NOT.

Weren't the Action Pistol shoots scheduled for weeknights that were not public hours? If so then those shoots kept LEO from using the range during those times. Why not try to make a deal with the Sheriff's office to get a night or two a month for Action Pistol? Was the previous schedule made between the League and the Sheriff, or between the League and RSM?
 
Weren't the Action Pistol shoots scheduled for weeknights that were not public hours? If so then those shoots kept LEO from using the range during those times. Why not try to make a deal with the Sheriff's office to get a night or two a month for Action Pistol? Was the previous schedule made between the League and the Sheriff, or between the League and RSM?
Even though the Public used the WCFETC 20 hour per week, the contract with RSM permitted, with WCSO approval, up to 25 hours per week. Action Pistol, other Leagues, some educational programs, and Special Events made use of the additional five hours. I argue that these activities DID NOT "keep LEO from using the range during those times", as LEO and particularly the WCSO had sufficient time to fulfill its training mandate during the regular M-F 8am to 5pm time allocation. I guess the Leagues could flood the WCSO with requests for access, requesting that said events continue during the Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday evening time slots, but make no mistake about it, the WCSO is interested in the conversion of the WCFETC into a Law Enforcement Training Center, as indicated in the October 2019 WCSO business plan presentation to County Staff.

The primary reason the WCFETC was built was FOR THE PUBLIC as a safe place to shoot. This arose out of a Wake County firearms ordinance prohibiting the discharge of a firearm inside city limits (and unincorporated parts of the county). The secondary reason the facility was built was to provide LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL TO MAINTAIN THEIR SKILLS. Today, this facility is not how it was originally envisioned. Sure, times change. But as Wake County Tax Payers, do we have the obligation to pay the operation and maintenance costs on a facility to train non Wake County Agencies and other entities such as private armed guard services? I think not.

Next up: I'm eager to see what the proposed Simulations Center, which the WCSO wants to build on the property, will cost Wake County Tax Payers.
 
There seems to have been decent news coverage about this -- I recall seeing at least two stories in the nightly news. I'm hoping this alerts some people got he fact this place even exists since, as one of the speakers put it a few weeks ago, it's Wake county's best kept secret.
 
Weren't the Action Pistol shoots scheduled for weeknights that were not public hours? If so then those shoots kept LEO from using the range during those times. Why not try to make a deal with the Sheriff's office to get a night or two a month for Action Pistol?

This bears repeating. No one has yet said classes and leagues cannot happen.
 
Even though the Public used the WCFETC 20 hour per week, the contract with RSM permitted, with WCSO approval, up to 25 hours per week. Action Pistol, other Leagues, some educational programs, and Special Events made use of the additional five hours. I argue that these activities DID NOT "keep LEO from using the range during those times", as LEO and particularly the WCSO had sufficient time to fulfill its training mandate during the regular M-F 8am to 5pm time allocation. I guess the Leagues could flood the WCSO with requests for access, requesting that said events continue during the Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday evening time slots, but make no mistake about it, the WCSO is interested in the conversion of the WCFETC into a Law Enforcement Training Center, as indicated in the October 2019 WCSO business plan presentation to County Staff.

The primary reason the WCFETC was built was FOR THE PUBLIC as a safe place to shoot. This arose out of a Wake County firearms ordinance prohibiting the discharge of a firearm inside city limits (and unincorporated parts of the county). The secondary reason the facility was built was to provide LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL TO MAINTAIN THEIR SKILLS. Today, this facility is not how it was originally envisioned. Sure, times change. But as Wake County Tax Payers, do we have the obligation to pay the operation and maintenance costs on a facility to train non Wake County Agencies and other entities such as private armed guard services? I think not.

Next up: I'm eager to see what the proposed Simulations Center, which the WCSO wants to build on the property, will cost Wake County Tax Payers.


One cannot shoot on their property in all of wake county?
 
This bears repeating. No one has yet said classes and leagues cannot happen.
This is true. However, cramming the same League, Special Event, and Education resources into a condensed weekend time frame will be impossible. Furthermore, the public hours component lost Tuesday and Thursday evening access. Please don't under estimate the negative consequences of the loss of those evenings to the general public. Additionally, any League access will now limit public hours even more, since many Leagues require multiple bays.

Finally, the larger and main issue that many fail to come to terms with is that this facility is being converted to a law enforcement training center. This is not why the facility was originally built. It's also not right that Wake County taxpayers will be paying the facilities maintenance and operating costs to train non Wake County law enforcement agencies. Let me remind you, and all the readers of this thread, that law enforcement use was originally a secondary consideration to public access, with the WCFETC being used by LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL TO MAINTAIN THEIR SKILLS. Not as a law enforcement training center.

The public is getting a RAW DEAL. No reason to thank our Commissioners for that!
 
ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP REFUND CHECKS ARE ON THEIR WAY

The county had a list of everyone they determined is owed a refund and mailed out the checks yesterday. More HERE.

How 'bout that?


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The Range was scheduled to open tomorrow... 3/15/20. Website has all the details, OPPS...the updated it today or tonight. AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN. New date is TBD. Oh well....
 
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