Would a 4-6" .45 Colt be considered adequate for bear protection

I plan to be trolling around Northern Wisconsin doing some portaging (sp) with canoe or small alum boat. Black bear encounters are quite possible.

Do I need bigger?

NOTE: None of you are on my beneficiary list!

Ben Jefferson said:

I plan to be trolling around Northern Wisconsin doing some portraying (sp) with canoe or small alum boat. Black bear encounters are quite possible.

Do I need bigger?

NOTE: None of you are on my beneficiary list!

Click to expand...

Let me try the 4" for a week or two and then I'll be able to give you an answer....

I wouldn't use .45 for bear, 44mag would be my min.

I haven't bought any of them yet girl!

I would rather buy a 4" Red Hawk if I had my druthers.

Already have a good bit of HP Ammo on hand.

I have a 5.5" Ruger Blackhawk.

My pet load pushes a 260 gr WFN bullet at 1275fps. It would be more than adequate for black bear. And with less recoil than a comparable 240 gr. 44 Mag.

I carried an old Ruger with a 4.5'' bbl chambered in .45colt while I was roaming around in Montana many years ago. I loaded it with 300gr hard cast bullets, and although I never had to use it on a brown bear, it made me feel a lot better with it hanging from my belt.

Ben Jefferson said:

I haven't bought any of them yet girl!

I would rather buy a 4" Red Hawk if I had my druthers.

Already have a good bit of HP Ammo on hand.

Click to expand...

Googled Red Hawk.....nice....

I'll be that guy..."It depends". Can you hit reliably where you intend to hit? @BatteryOaksBilly and crew may have some good suggestions on bullet type to carry. Im guessing they will recommend you go with some solid lead projectiles over HP ammo as penetration is going to be key.

As mentioned upstream, loaded properly it will do fine. One benefit of staying away from magnum calibers is you may need to be making some follow up shots, and those hot magnums can be a "bear" to control.

Flatnosed hardcast bullets pushed hard out of that .45 Colt will definitely do the job, but you're not gonna have problems with black bears.

12 gauge with buckshot or slugs

or

a frying pan and metal spoon to bang against each other

"Portage" is what you'll be doing if you're bouncing the boat between the hundreds of small lakes and streams up there. Truly beautiful country.

I'd worry more about humans than bears. How many bear attacks have you heard about in the last few years? And, the ones that did happen were more than likely the fault of the humans involved.

the original spec 45 colt 250ish grain with black powder was designed to shoot thru a indian war pony aka a horse longways. So yeah, it'll work with bear. I'd use hardcast, heavy, and faster than 800fps.

Tim said:

"Portage" is what you'll be doing if you're bouncing the boat between the hundreds of small lakes and streams up there. Truly beautiful country.

Click to expand...

Exactly, normally short land bridges between some rarely fished waters.

Looks and Eagles everywhere!

Black Bear encounters that go bad usually involve 1 of 2 things ... food or cubs. To that keep your food supplies in a bear box or up a tree a decent distance from your camp and dispose of garbage correctly and away from your camp. Also if a bear wants the fish you have toss it to the bear and back away quietly. As to cubs ... do you damnest to not get in between Momma and her cubs and just plain if you see, hear, get wind of, etc of a cub go the opposite away.

Oh yeah ... best bear gun is actually a .41mag ... guides swear it’s bore and penetration with hardcasts work best overall for grizzlies when it comes to a pistol otherwise 12 ga slugs.

If you deiced to go with .45 Colt and are rolling your own ammo look hard at Hodgdon Lil Gun powder. Meters very consistently and works particularly well with heavy bullets.

rantingredneck said:

If you deiced to go with .45 Colt and are rolling your own ammo look hard at Hodgdon Lil Gun powder. Meters very consistently and works particularly well with heavy bullets.

Click to expand...

Nope, JIC I will be buying a proven product!

What pistol are you shooting the .45LC out of?

If it is out of a Ruger Blackhawk or the likes this bit of advice wpuld suffice. Load em heavy and push em hard.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk

Grits said:

What pistol are you shooting the .45LC out of?

If it is out of a Ruger Blackhawk or the likes this bit of advice wpuld suffice. Load em heavy and push em hard.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Yes sir I will be purchasing a Red Hawk or Blackhawk most likely.

I would like a 4" over a 6" if FEASIBLE to get sufficient speed.

@Michael458 has some 45 Colt loads for Redhawks and Anacondas that will cure your heavy load needs. If you decide to go with his loads, Please take a picture of the first ones you shoot!! They are fearsome. They will also shoot groups at 100 yards that you won't be able to tell your friends about. They won't believe you!!!

Going to WI September 16 to visit with my MIL and she is a bear to be around but just a muzzle works in her case

BatteryOaksBilly said:

@Michael458 has some 45 Colt loads for Redhawks and Anacondas that will cure your heavy load needs. If you decide to go with his loads, Please take a picture of the first ones you shoot!! They are fearsome. They will also shoot groups at 100 yards that you won't be able to tell your friends about. They won't believe you!!!

Click to expand...

I've heard you speak of this man's loads.

Billy, I am probably less likely to accurately group at 100 yds with a 4" pistol than @Jeppo!

And I believe he is joking, not me!

Ben Jefferson said:

I would like a 4" over a 6" if FEASIBLE to get sufficient speed.

Click to expand...

When J.D. Jones was visiting at B&M HQ he said he had never seen a S&W Mdl 29 with an 8 3/8 barrel that would shoot higher velocities than a 6 1/2 inch one. He then said he had seen 4 inchers that would produce higher velocities than either of the longer barrels. It's all about bullet and powder selection. Anyway , just talked to Mike he said he would get on this in the morning for you. He as all the info available on high performance 45 Colt loads.

IF you have the ability to do so, a single action and levergun combo would be the bee's knees. But that's one more thing to carry on your trip. A Rossi 92 can handle Ruger only loads and beyond. Find a load that both like and it's Nirvana. And you'll get approximately 4-500 fps more from the levergun (depending on load and barrel length).

I would be very interested in trying them!

I carried a 45C SAA clone a few times in AK, saw a good number of bears never had to use it, or any other.

Dad shot a boar one day I was there that squared 6'8". Shot from about 3-4' away right down the center of its chest. It was climbing up to the stand and hollering and stomping wasn't changing its mind. Used a "hot" cast bullet from a 45C, I believe in a Blackhawk. Changed his direction, but certainly not DRT he ran just out of sight and death moaned for a couple minutes. I believe he still carried it sometimes but it soured him a bit on its being suitable to actually hunt them with.

Black bears around here are littlei think. I wood be more worried about brown bears. I have no idea about bears but think black bears would be your less worry.

KnotRight said:

Black bears around here are littlei think. I wood be more worried about brown bears. I have no idea about bears but think black bears would be your less worry.

Click to expand...

We don't have brown bears in the Eastern US but the black bears can be huge in Eastern or Western NC.

What are you protecting the bear from? If it's John Wick, you might want to go with a few squads.

NCFubar said:

Black Bear encounters that go bad usually involve 1 of 2 things ... food or cubs. To that keep your food supplies in a bear box or up a tree a decent distance from your camp and dispose of garbage correctly and away from your camp. Also if a bear wants the fish you have toss it to the bear and back away quietly. As to cubs ... do you damnest to not get in between Momma and her cubs and just plain if you see, hear, get wind of, etc of a cub go the opposite away.

Oh yeah ... best bear gun is actually a .41mag ... guides swear it’s bore and penetration with hardcasts work best overall for grizzlies when it comes to a pistol otherwise 12 ga slugs.

Click to expand...

Just can't beat a Smith Model 58....

What...?!?! Nobody has mentioned 10mm yet? I'm shocked...

I have a Glock 20 with hardcast 200gr Underwood ammo for bear duty. 15rds in a compact, low maintenance package and a Kenai Chest Rig for quick access if I think I will be in a bad spot.

Ben Jefferson said:

Do I need bigger?

Click to expand...

No. 45 Colt is more than enough to accomplish your mission.

The biggest decision you will have to make is how much gun do you want to tote around in a pure defensive scenario?

Back in the day I found myself in CA chasing a bear with my hunting buddy Lou, and the Robb boys from Utah. I had planned on using a Marlin Guide gun 45/70, and had a trusted 4 inch S&W Mt Revolver in 45 Colt on my hip. I had the S&W loaded with some sort of Nosler 260 gr HP at or around 1150 fps at the time. A fairly hot load for the S&W. We were using dogs and they hit a bear going up a mountain. They finally got this bear pinned down ahead of us. All total we were 3 hours into climbing this mountain. We arrived on the scene and the bear was cornered inside a small cave. Knocking the dogs out of the way, the only flashlight we had was a small mag light and the batteries mostly dead. Myself and one of the Robb boys down on hands and knees could only see the bears head about 4-5 feet in front of us, snapping his jaws at us and putting up a hell of a fuss. Crap! In this scenario the Marlin was just to big to maneuver around, so I snatched the S&W out. We could see nothing but this bears head, nothing else. Deciding that it looked big enough, and had 3 hours into this thing already, I was not going back empty handed. Hands and Knees in front of the small cavity and a half ass mag light, I decided to aim just below the chin and turned two rounds loose, real quick, jumped up on a rock next to the hole the bear was in. Now I am in a good position about 6 feet from the entrance, looking down. I forgot I had a Marlin Guide gun. Bear is snapping jaws, pissed off, growling and making a big fuss now. Even pokes his head out a couple of times, but the entrance is so small he just can't worm his way back out easy. Time is slowed, I decide to replace the two rounds I had fired, and was ready and waiting. Bear started working his way out, he was struggling to get his shoulders past the entrance, and when he cleared one side I started pouring it to him. After 4 more rounds he decided he didn't want any more of this and rolled down the mountain about 75-80 yards, and it was done.

I was rather pleased with myself, had a big smile on my face as I turned around, but damn, there was not a soul in site? The entire crowd had managed to move around the side of the mountain out of sight! HEH HEH..... WTF? They giggled as they made their way back when they figured the battle was over..............

I did not do a big bullet research on top of that mountain, but I don't think any of those HP's expanded, or done anything but pass through. Was not a big bear at all, about 200 lbs is all. But it was a damn good time and a bunch of fun.

I carried that 4 inch S&W gun around for a couple of years, taking a big 400 lb pig in TN with it, and two Mt. Lions in Utah. I never felt like I needed more.

I love 45 Colt, and have everything from Big Rugers, down to SA Army and Taurus, S&Ws, Anacondas, and even a custom built for me Dan Wesson with 3 barrels. I have loads that will do about anything you ever want with a handgun, tailored for the individual strengths of the various types of 45 Colt you might encounter. All 45 Colt are not created equal. You shoot different loads in a SA Army and the small Taurus guns than you do in the Anacondas and big Rugers. The S&Ws are somewhere in between.

A few years ago on our last trip to Alaska for bear I found myself trying to decide what to carry as a side arm. Obviously it was going to be one of the 45 Colts. But which one? Of course I started out with some heavy loads in the Anacondas and Ruger. Damn, too much, starting to hurt my hands! And the damn guns weighed a ton. I was not really having happy thoughts of carrying this extra weight around, and those heavy loads! After some deliberation, I decided to carry a 2 inch Taurus 5 shot lite weight gun, one that I had carried many a mile and never even realize it was on my hip. I had even carried this same little gun in Africa in two countries, and never felt under gunned. Shooting some sort of 250 Cast at 800 fps. I also had a 4 inch version of this same gun, and my Wife carried it in Alaska on this trip. I of course was hunting bear with 50 B&M, so the handgun was only if I found myself in dire straights. Figured if 5 of these 250 Cast in the face didn't get his attention, well, nothing else would either! LOL>..............

I have some fairly extensive data on heavy loads in various type 45 Colt handguns, so more than happy to assist you with that should the time come. Depending on the strength class of the handgun you choose. Bears come in all size classes, but a 250 Cast at 800-1000 fps can get to the vitals and get one off of you as good as anything. I would go for penetration, I would not worry about a HP or Trauma inflicting bullet with a handgun. Since it is defense, I would put much thought into weight and portability of the handgun. Of course, if you are young and strong, you can go to one of the big guns and run 300 gr CEB Solids at 1300-1400 fps and have a blast, but today I don't want to carry such weight around myself.

Today, if I found myself in exactly the same scenario, I would carry a Kimber Ultra or at most a 4" gun in 45 ACP, loaded with 200 gr CEB FN Solids at 800-1000 fps and carry a spare magazine.

I've tromped around northern Wisconsin for over 20 years hunting Grouse and have yet to run into a bear of any kind so I think your chances are damned slim of even seeing one let alone needing to kill one. Get real and don't get caught up in the hype. Be aware, make noise and have a nice day.
The only "thing" I've ever seen in WI to worry about (besides the drunk dude at the Tavern) was a wolf tracking the dog I was hunting with. Wolf lost the encounter.....

I spent quite a bit of time years ago in upper Minnesota and southern Ontario canoeing and portaging from lake to lake for weeks at a time. If you use a little bit of common sense black bears are the least of your worries. There are no grizzly or brown bears in Wisconsin. Don't snack in you tent, hang your food up at night, maybe hang a bell on your pack. I'd be more worried about getting hurt (twisting an ankle or something) in a remote area than worrying about the local critters. Problem bears are bears that have been conditioned to human food sources. Trash cans, gardens, bird feeders, grills, even scraps discarded in nearby woodlands and backyards. My job kept me in the woods for over 30 years working and dealing with wildlife (including black bears) and I never had a situation with bears, even females with cubs. Mom will run her cubs up a tree and then she will leave and return later. The last thing she wants is a confrontation that will result in her or her cubs getting hurt. Females will also abandon cubs if they are pushed to hard. Someone compiled the data on bear attacks going back over 100 years (published in the J. Wildlife Management) and found that the worst culprit were yearling males roaming the countryside hanging out on street corners, drinking cheap beer, smoking cigarettes, and acting the fool.
I'm not saying not to carry a handgun, especially in this day and age but once you get away from "civilization" you are probably safer there than in your own home. When you canoe/portage weight can be an issue and the last thing I would want to do is lug around a heavy handgun and ammo all day. I would rather use that weight for extra food or maybe a good field guide and binoculars. Maybe something like a Featherweight .38, Ruger pocket pistols, or even a .22 would be something to consider. And you have to remember that if you did have a major confrontation with a black bear (odds being similar to alien abduction, having a collision with your canoe and a submarine, etc.) and you shoot the poor thing chances are good that you will wound it and now you have an injured and pissed off bear running around. The authorities do not look favorably on people going around shooting bears in the ass with handguns during closed seasons. They even on occasion throw them in jail.

SPST said:

I'd worry more about humans than bears. How many bear attacks have you heard about in the last few years? And, the ones that did happen were more than likely the fault of the humans involved.

Click to expand...

Shush yo mouth. The man is trying to buy another gun. Let it lie.

When it comes to bears, shot placement is king. Before moving back to NC, I did forestry work in the Rockies in northern Montana. Bear encounters (along with other big critters) were common.

If a bear is after you, its going to be facing you. A bear has a big head, but a small skull. Most of that noggin is just muscle, fur, and fat. You're going to need to hit a 4" circle (basically between the bear's eyes) if you plan to hit it with a killing shot. Shooting a bear and making that shot when one is charging you is going to be difficult at best.

I think a 45lc is adequate. Anything 357 or bigger is probably enough gun. But if I were you, I'd make the gun the backup, and go buy yourself a can of bear mace. You don't need to be nearly as accurate with it as you do with the handgun, and its going to send that bear packing for the hills. Folks may laugh at the idea of macing a bear, but I tell you, the stuff works. I've even had the misfortune of being in the the area when some was sprayed once, and just the overspray/drift was making me reconsider many of my life choices. I thought I was going to die.

Most bear encounters can be avoided without having to use mace or a handgun though. Most bears don't want to attack you. They're just simply protecting their territory. If you encounter a bear, the best thing to do is to spread your arms to make yourself look bigger, and talk to the bear in a loud, but calm (as you can manage) voice. Don't yell or screech at the bear. While doing this, back away from the bear. Don't turn your back and walk away. Is a sign of weakness and may encourage the bear to charge. Keep backing up until the bear is out of sight, then turn around and vacate the area.

"Playing dead" does not work. Its an old wives tale. Black bears can climb trees, but so can some smaller/younger grizzlies.

FYI, A grizzly bear is more likely to charge or challenge you to make you leave. Black bears less likely. HOWEVER, if a black bear appears to be docile, calm, or "tame" when you encounter one in the woods, its already made up its mind to eat you. (Basically if it approaches you appearing friendly) In the unfortunate event that you are attacked, the black bear is the one most likely to try and eat you.

For black bears in Wisconsin, yes. For black bears just making noise is usually enough unless there's an issue where you are in between a mama and her cubs, then it's game on....

Downeast said:

I spent quite a bit of time years ago in upper Minnesota and southern Ontario canoeing and portaging from lake to lake for weeks at a time. If you use a little bit of common sense black bears are the least of your worries. There are no grizzly or brown bears in Wisconsin. Don't snack in you tent, hang your food up at night, maybe hang a bell on your pack. I'd be more worried about getting hurt (twisting an ankle or something) in a remote area than worrying about the local critters. Problem bears are bears that have been conditioned to human food sources. Trash cans, gardens, bird feeders, grills, even scraps discarded in nearby woodlands and backyards. My job kept me in the woods for over 30 years working and dealing with wildlife (including black bears) and I never had a situation with bears, even females with cubs. Mom will run her cubs up a tree and then she will leave and return later. The last thing she wants is a confrontation that will result in her or her cubs getting hurt. Females will also abandon cubs if they are pushed to hard. Someone compiled the data on bear attacks going back over 100 years (published in the J. Wildlife Management) and found that the worst culprit were yearling males roaming the countryside hanging out on street corners, drinking cheap beer, smoking cigarettes, and acting the fool.
I'm not saying not to carry a handgun, especially in this day and age but once you get away from "civilization" you are probably safer there than in your own home. When you canoe/portage weight can be an issue and the last thing I would want to do is lug around a heavy handgun and ammo all day. I would rather use that weight for extra food or maybe a good field guide and binoculars. Maybe something like a Featherweight .38, Ruger pocket pistols, or even a .22 would be something to consider. And you have to remember that if you did have a major confrontation with a black bear (odds being similar to alien abduction, having a collision with your canoe and a submarine, etc.) and you shoot the poor thing chances are good that you will wound it and now you have an injured and pissed off bear running around. The authorities do not look favorably on people going around shooting bears in the ass with handguns during closed seasons. They even on occasion throw them in jail.

Click to expand...

This makes a lot of sense. Outside of Alaska I think the bear defense thing is not really an issue. In Alaska I wouldn't carry anything less than a 12 ga with slugs. I encountered bears while hiking and off roading in California. The bears were eager to get out of the area. I also encountered mountain lions 2x. They were scarier.

In case it hasn't been said already, in a modern gun like Ruger Blackhawk or, especially, a Redhawk, .45 Colt can be loaded to do anything a .44 Magnum can do, but at lower pressure. Get a custom, tight chambered .45 Colt and you can safely bump the bottom end of .454 Casull performance.

If you are going the single action route, I really prefer the Ruger Bisley grip frame for heavy loads. Your mileage (and hand geometry) may vary.

Also, the gun's barrel/cylinder gap has more to do with the muzzle velocity you get than whether it has a 4" or 6" barrel. As has been noted, powder selection is key, as well. If the encounter is up close and personal, the bear isn't going to notice the velocity difference between a 4" and 6" barrel, if there is one.