Gouging

My wife and I went to the Spartanburg gun show today. Ammo was very expensive, and I found one guy selling Winchester WSP primers for FIFTY DOLLARS for a box of 1000! Same guy had a 1 pound container of powder (I don't remember what it was) priced at FORTY DOLLARS. He also had a single 8-lb container of powder priced at THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!

I'm sorry, that's GOUGING in my book...

We really didn't buy anything, except that I bought a handguard removal tool for an AR-15. That was the only tool I didn't have, and I got it for $10.00 That was a good price because it wasn't anything that could go, "Bang!"

Here we go.

Well, better follow this thread, see if it turns out better than the last one.

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If they can’t get product to sell, they will sell what product they have at what they think they can sell it for because they WILL have to replace it.

I’ve seen this time and time again.

My advice is to buy whatever you think you will need looking forward 12-18 months when it is cheap and available.

It sucks for all.


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In before the free market guild vrs Price gouging group cage match begins

I’m in the free market crowd, if your low on supplies there’s no one to blame but yourself.

Did you notice if he was selling any $50/1K primers, $40/# powder or $300/8# powder, or were folks looking, then, moving on?

Gouging is when a necessity is over market value, not a luxury. If it was food that was 2-3x what ot normally is then I would say gouging. Since its primers and powder, I'm saying free market. You cam survive without either and neither of those are perishable or do they have an immediate need like plywood in the path of a hurricane.

$50 primers isn’t bad at all for small pistol today.

Them guys selling gold above $2,000, that’s gouging, somebody needs to sell me 100toz at $600 because that’s more reasonable.

cold1 said:

Gouging is when a necessity is over market value, not a luxury. If it was food that was 2-3x what ot normally is then I would say gouging. Since its primers and powder, I'm saying free market. You cam survive without either and neither of those are perishable or do they have an immediate need like plywood in the path of a hurricane.

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Huh. Someone on this site just said "you don't need that." Besides, I thought the whole point of having gunshops open through Covid lockdown was that firearms-related items ARE essential?

I should say, though, that the last thing I want is to get in a fight, on CFF on a Saturday night ...

Does it even count if its not Friday?

There is a difference in “need” and want. You want primers today for last year’s pricing.

You “need” food, water, shelter and air. If someone is gouging on those, then there is a problem.

I wouldn't like it, but I'd probably drop $50 per on a k or two. As is I'm probably gonna cut match attendance down for a bit.

wsfiredude said:

Did you notice if he was selling any $50/1K primers, $40/# powder or $300/8# powder, or were folks looking, then, moving on?

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I did notice. Everyone else, like myself, said, "No Thanks," and moved on. I just loaded 400 rounds of 380 acp within the last week. I just received 1000 9mm bullets this past week. I can hold out for now with what I have, but I was just taken back by someone who is trying to find someone stupid or desperate enough to pay him what he's asking.

Never forget what PT Barnum said.

cold1 said:

Gouging is when a necessity is over market value, not a luxury. If it was food that was 2-3x what ot normally is then I would say gouging. Since its primers and powder, I'm saying free market. You cam survive without either and neither of those are perishable or do they have an immediate need like plywood in the path of a hurricane.

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Does it really matter? If he normally buys a pound of powder for 15 dollars & resells it for 25, he's made 10 dollars IF I'm willing to pay what he's asking. I understand supply and demand. The product he is selling today was not bought last week. He is reselling the same product he bought at normal prices, for now exorbitant prices, for no other reason than because he has something that few others have. He's going to take advantage of his fellow reloaders simply because he can. ...and I also understand that I have the option of saying, "No thanks," and moving on...

fieldgrade said:

Never forget what PT Barnum said.

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PT Barnum was wrong. It's every thirty seconds...

One thing that is considered very essential in this world is primers, powder, brass and bullets.

My Dad had me running our turret press when I was 7 years old. He would measure the powder and funnel it into the brass. I sized the brass, seated the primer and seated the bullet.

I remember him telling me one of the bullets we made (for his buddy) killed a moose.

Harold2689 said:

He is reselling the same product he bought at normal prices, for now exorbitant prices, for no other reason than because he has something that few others have. .

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This was debated/discussed/yelled about a month ago here.

This is not how a successful business is run.

When you go to a gas station, they charge you based on what it will cost them to replace that gas, not on what they paid for it.

So if you aren’t for the free market, then what are you for? Price controls? Because that’s the alternative. Those are worse - you get artificial shortages in addition to real ones based on supply and demand.

If two people agree to exchange $x for y stuff that’s their business, not mine or anyone else’s, especially not gov.

Harold2689 said:

I did notice. Everyone else, like myself, said, "No Thanks," and moved on.

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That’s called the market setting the price.

If he wants to move inventory bad enough, he will lower his prices to the point people are willing to pay what he is asking.

He won’t, however, drop his prices to less than what his costs are to restock inventory. If he does, he will not be in business for very long.

wsfiredude said:

That’s called the market setting the price.

If he wants to move inventory bad enough, he will lower his prices to the point people are willing to pay what he is asking.

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Indeed.
And he owes it to no one to sell for any other prices than what he sees fit, or not.
It’s his product, and his call.

I like to recall a little acoustic music shop in Wendell NC that used to be right around the corner from Perry’s Gun Shop. They dealt in high end bluegrass and Old time style stringed instruments.

About twenty years ago they had for sale a very rare and very desirable 1920’s Lloyd Loar (a famed acoustic engineer with Gibson in the pre-war days) Gibson mandola in beautiful condition. They were asking $40,000. I can assure anyone that is not what it cost new, adjusted for inflation. It stayed for sale a very long time.

Donald Zepp, PHD, the proprietor (and great musician) decided he was ready to sell this thing.

So... he raised the price.

Sold the next day.

So I have to call baloney on people when they whine about somebody marking something up substantially over what they may or may not have paid for it. Has not one thing to do with the equation in a capitalistic economy.

It’s worth what someone’s willing to pay. No more, no less.

From each according to his ability...

JimP42 said:

So if you aren’t for the free market, then what are you for? Price controls? Because that’s the alternative. Those are worse - you get artificial shortages in addition to real ones based on supply and demand.

If two people agree to exchange $x for y stuff that’s their business, not mine or anyone else’s, especially not gov.

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Woah! I never said anything about price control or the government. Please don't put words in my mouth, because I have no idea where they might have been...


I agree in free market. He has the right to ask whatever he wants for whatever he has. I also have the right to keep moving along, which is exactly what I did. And I was very polite, I didn't say anything derogatory to him.

fieldgrade said:

So I have to call baloney on people when they whine about somebody marking something up substantially over what they may or may not have paid for it. Has not one thing to do with the equation in a capitalistic economy.

It’s worth what someone’s willing to pay. No more, no less.

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I wasn't whining. I merely stated what I saw today. I wasn't willing to pay what he was asking, so I moved on, and he kept everything he had. I just wonder how HE would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, and I had something way overpriced from what I paid for it, and was trying to milk it for whatever I thought I could get someone to pay me for it. I doubt he'd like it either, and in that case, he'd do exactly what I did, and just keep moving along...

I think the biggest problem I have with the word *gouging* is that, a) it’s a pejorative for someone who is otherwise just transacting business.
i.e. buy/sell/trade, where everything is negotiable. And b), there are laws in NC against “price gouging” making it illegal under certain circumstances, so it carries the force of law in those circumstances, which makes it sound like someone is stealing or something.

So, having been a small business-person who could only eat what he could shoot, so to speak, from 1989 till now, I just hate to see business people cast in a bad light over doing what business people do, marketing their products, trying to clear a profit. And I’m all about the profit.

by the way, and a little from left field, but pertinent when we consider the current social unrest....
People brought up under communism have no perception or understanding of profit, but profit makes the world go round. My world, anyway.

I've seen primers listed for $120/1000. I confirmed the price was correct and when he said it was I moved on.

I doubt there is a soul here that has never bought an item because it was such a good deal they knew they wouldn't get hurt if they decided to sell it. Maybe it was such a great deal you bought it for trade fodder to upgrade yourself down the road. Maybe you bought it to flip because you knew you could and clearing a little cash would help you buy something you really wanted. Is any of this price gouging? Just because I got a deal on something doesn't mean I have to pass the deal along.

It's really simple people. If you don't like the price then move on.

GoWolfpack said:

Well, better follow this thread, see if it turns out better than the last one.

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The last one started by me was just to say damn. People are asking crazy prices. It turned into something that I actually stopped following.

How dare they try and keep their business going while they can barely get any inventory to sell.

falconew said:

The last one started by me was just to say damn. People are asking crazy prices. It turned into something that I actually stopped following.

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...and that's exactly what I was saying in my original post. I wasn't aware of the first post, or I would have kept my mouth shut, just like I did at the man's table today. But in my opinion, he was trying to take advantage of his fellow reloaders just because he could. I fully understand and agree that he's free to ask whatever he wants, and I also have the freedom to say no, and move on, which is exactly what I did. No hard feelings, no harsh words of criticism to him, I just moved on.

I had a friend who owned a successful salon. He told me about something called, "keystone." You buy a product for $10.00 and sell it for $20.00. 100% markup is "keystone." On some products, he double and triple "keystoned." I told him that at some point, your clients will say it's too expensive, and won't buy it. Then he puts it on "sale," marks it down to "double-keystone" and still sells it for better than twice what he paid for it.

Several months ago my wife bought 1000 rounds of 5.56 for HALF of what it's selling for now. We could sell it and double our money, but I couldn't do it with a clear conscious. Perhaps that's why I never was, and never will be a businessman...

Price Gauging is a term made up by democrats to make sure that supplies run out.

If prices are allowed to settle according to the market then you always have product available. Those primers were available BECAUSE they WEREN'T $35 for 1000.

The only thing I really see as fraud or “gouging” is where someone manipulates the market. Cheating is cheating.

the guy in TN back in January who went to every single store in 100 miles and purchased every AI gle hand sanitizers and then tried selling them at 5,000x the price...

in that case, he engineered the inflated price by deliberately manipulating the supply within region.

outside of fraudulent behavior, it’s just crappy prices, crappy times.

The best thing to do is remember who the buttheads are and remember who treated you fairly.

Things have a way of working out.

Just had this discussion tonight. For me, other than items that are regarded as essential for health or "survival", the delineation between gouging and free market is the accessibility of supply. If the seller already has the product in stock, he should be able to sell at whatever he wants. Market will determine the final price, because he will sell it or not. If, however, the seller buys up the market so that it is unavailable other than through him, then it's market control and I see that as gouging.

Tailhunter said:

The best thing to do is remember who the buttheads are and remember who treated you fairly.

Things have a way of working out.

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cheaper then dirt!!!!! Lol

$50 a thou isn't too bad when you consider that you almost can;t find them anywhere else. It is less that 2x markup from the old pricing.

Really need to figure out how to recycle the used ones

It also has to do with the fixed costs of business and scarcity of supply. If you can only get 2 boxes of primers where you could get 10 boxes before, your profit on those two boxes has to increase to cover your fixed costs.

Harold2689 said:

Several months ago my wife bought 1000 rounds of 5.56 for HALF of what it's selling for now. We could sell it and double our money, but I couldn't do it with a clear conscious. Perhaps that's why I never was, and never will be a businessman...

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You could sell it for double the price you paid for it but, what would it cost to replace it?

Geezer said:

You could sell it for double the price you paid for it but, what would it cost to replace it?

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I could sell half of it for twice what I paid for it. Then whoever bought what I sold would have paid for what I still keep, and my 500 rounds would be "free."

But I don't operate like that.

Decisions
Decisions