Outdoor limited

jmccracken1214

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We have done business there for quite a while but with recent events throughout this year I think I’m going to place them in the same boat as Cheaper than dirt. After visiting other small local stores that are trying their best to keep prices down and are definitely way cheaper than outdoor Limited has become it is very apparent that they are price gouging due to the demand. To each their own I guess make the money while you can but taking advantage of your customer base just for extra profit is not something that I agree with.

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I haven’t heard good things about them lately. Shame local folks like that keep shooting themselves in the foot
 
They were almost my exclusive supplier for ammo before covid. Good prices and fairly quick shipping. Really disappointed that they are marking things up so high. It didn't just start either. They raised prices almost immediately when things got crazy.
 
They've about doubled their price since mid July. A friend bought a case of the Red Army 9mm and it was somewhere between $350 and $400. They may have had to pay more at the wholesale level, but they would be foolish to buy too much at those prices unless they're able to sell it. At some point, possibly after a Trump electoral win, the proverbial music will stop and someone is going to be holding the proverbial bag.
 
They've about doubled their price since mid July. A friend bought a case of the Red Army 9mm and it was somewhere between $350 and $400. They may have had to pay more at the wholesale level, but they would be foolish to buy too much at those prices unless they're able to sell it. At some point, possibly after a Trump electoral win, the proverbial music will stop and someone is going to be holding the proverbial bag.
When things go back to how they were or to some level of normal, I will not be using outdoor Limited anymore. I would much rather drive eight more minutes and spend my money with a company in Salisbury that has not jacked up their prices any more than they have had to
 
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I have been a huge fanboy and proponent of outdoor limited in the past. Live inventory, and the ease of picking up in person to save even more on shipping made me a regular customer. However, they have lost their minds and me as a customer until they come back to their senses.
 
I have been a huge fanboy and proponent of outdoor limited in the past. Live inventory, and the ease of picking up in person to save even more on shipping made me a regular customer. However, they have lost their minds and me as a customer until they come back to their senses.
They are selling out in just days and that’s with the ammo at $.80 per round. I guess they are doing it because there’s a large number of people out there that are even more crazy than they are
 
So I have a slightly different take on "price gouging".

First, a friend who owns a local gun shop is having to pay ludicrous sums for any form of 9mm ammo on the wholesale side. The price increases are there for retailers too.

Second, I am not nearly as opposed to the principle of charging more during times of high demand as most people are. I am not being forced at gunpoint to buy ammo or any other product at high prices. If I choose to spend that much for the product, then that is a voluntary transaction between me and the seller. If nobody is willing to pay the price, then the seller will have to lower the price until someone will or risk not having a buyer. Something like this also ensures that fewer people will hoard large quantities of ammo that they will never shoot. I have paid more for reloading components recently than I would have liked, but was happy to get them considering the current frenzy. I should have planned better and earlier.

Sellers can't arbitrarily charge $100 for a watermelon if the grocery store has them for $4.

The example that I often use is ice after a hurricane. Let's say that there is a hurricane in Florida, and ice that is normally $2 per bag is selling for $20. The higher price ensures that people will only use ice for the most necessary functions (like keeping insulin cold). The guy who just wants to keep his Bud Lite cold may have to suck it up and drink warm beer. It also entices people to find ways to increase the supply. Some redneck from NC might be willing to rent a refrigerated truck and drive to FL with a load of ice if he thinks there might be a profit in it. If a few other rednecks from GA and AL also have the same plan, the supply of ice in the hurricane stricken area increases. By the time the guy from NC gets to FL, the ice might be selling for $8 or $10 due to higher supply. On the flip side, if a local law prohibits anyone from selling ice for more than $3, the supply of ice does not increase due to profit motive, and the guy keeping his crappy beer cold buys more than he needs. There might be none available for the poor dad trying to keep his kid's insulin cold.
 
so after they depleted their initial stock, as far as volume goes how many boxs or cases do you think they are selling now vs last year this time?
 
If you watch what they are getting into inventory it is the same flow of ammo everyone else is getting. Magtech for example sold out yesterday at $250 a case at both Brownells and Natchez in a matter of minutes. That same ammo is sitting at $.80 at ODL. So that tells me that they are all getting it directly from the manufacturer. The availability of the product for all locations is within 24-48 hours which tells me the difference is shipping time based on location. ODL I have been told is the retail front for a distributor. So that means they are buying direct at relatively the same pricing as those selling for $256 a case. That means they are marking up this ammo 3.5X the normal markup. The free market says that they can do it but I am not buying any of it at that price and if their prices come back in line I would rather buy from someone who did not rape the shooting community in 2020. That is not to say I would never buy from them again but they would not be my first vendor choice.

I used to buy from them because they were in NC even when they were a little higher than others because they were local. I now regret that choice.
 
so after they depleted their initial stock, as far as volume goes how many boxs or cases do you think they are selling now vs last year this time?

Like everyone else they are selling a lot less but selling everything they have in inventory.
 
A LGS owner told me big manufacturers (Winchester, Remington, Federal, CCI, Speer, Hornady, etc) are starting to say their production through the end of 2021 and into 2022 has been spoken for! That doesn't mean we won't see any ammo from them but there won't be any magic increase in production for a long time. All the ammo that they can make will go out to the military, police, distributors and big websites/dealers who order direct from them. Basically that means Bass Pro/Cabelas type big boxes will get theirs and the wholesale distributors will get their first and the secondary and such market will get the leftovers to try and fill their shelves. He basically told me if I see premium HD/SD ammo at a big box store and remotely think I need it to buy it ... he won’t be able to touch $1 per premium HD/SD round. He’s trying his damnedest to smooze a couple smarter local ammo manufacturers but can’t get their full metal jacket bulk stuff at anywhere near the pre-Panic prices (their costs for components ... cases, primers and powder. has jumped) ... about 50¢ per for 9mm & .223/5.56is going to be about his best deal for the near future ... at his size he just isn’t important enough to in the supply chain.
 
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I used to buy from them because they were in NC even when they were a little higher than others because they were local. I now regret that choice.

You shouldn't regret anything. You made your choice to support them (as did I) based on the best information you had at the time.

Now things are different, so decide differently (or not) based on what new information you've learned.
 
A LGS owner told me big manufacturers (Winchester, Remington, Federal, CCI, Speer, Hornady, etc) are starting to say their production through the end of 2021 and into 2022 has been spoken for! That doesn't mean we won't see any ammo from them but there won't be any magic increase in production for a long time. All the ammo that they can make will go out to the military, police, distributors and big websites/dealers who order direct from them. Basically that means Bass Pro/Cabelas type big boxes will get theirs and the wholesale distributors will get their first and the secondary and such market will get the leftovers to try and fill their shelves. He basically told me if I see premium HD/SD ammo at a big box store and remotely think I need it to buy it ... he won’t be able to touch $1 per premium HD/SD round. He’s trying his damnedest to smooze a couple smarter local ammo manufacturers but can’t get their full metal jacket bulk stuff at anywhere near the pre-Panic prices ... about 50¢ per for 9mm & .223/5.56is going to be about his best deal for the near future ... at his size he just isn’t important enough to in the supply chain.

Good info!
 
You shouldn't regret anything. You made your choice to support them (as did I) based on the best information you had at the time.

Now things are different, so decide differently (or not) based on what new information you've learned.

I understand that. I will continued to reassess the as time goes on. I think that for a lot of the people who only sell ammo they are looking at a limited volume of inventory for the next 6 months. In order to stay afloat they need every penny they can get. I am not sure it justifies $.80 a round for .12 ammo but I can understand that their volume has to be way down and they appear to have been running on a volume model. As many people do.
 
Good info!
I believe him ... if i were a buyer for Bass Pro/Cabelas or Academy I’d have increased my orders with the big manufacturers pretty quick and buy a good amount because of demand ... and the manufacturers say damn the Mom & Pop stores as long as we get ours.
 
If they are selling out at the price they are asking then that is the market price, why would you expect otherwise. I'd rather stores sell at market price so it's at least available at some price then have the shelves perpetually bare because of selling below market.
 
If they are selling out at the price they are asking then that is the market price, why would you expect otherwise. I'd rather stores sell at market price so it's at least available at some price then have the shelves perpetually bare because of selling below market.

Market Price is $.55-$.65 right now. There is lots of ammo available at that price. Are you buying at this price? o_O
 
I believe him ... if i were a buyer for Bass Pro/Cabelas or Academy I’d have increased my orders with the big manufacturers pretty quick and buy a good amount because of demand ... and the manufacturers say damn the Mom & Pop stores as long as we get ours.
Was in the neighborhood of Academy in Winston this afternoon. They had a few boxes of .40 and no other handgun ammo at all.
 
Market Price is $.55-$.65 right now. There is lots of ammo available at that price. Are you buying at this price? o_O
I damn sure would if I had to. Face it, demand is up, so price is up. What's so hard to understand? Let the market do its thing so we don't have assholes grabbing Everything off the shelves at 8am and selling it on GB for twice as much. Make them pay too and things will gradually return to normal. Keeping prices artificially low keeps the shelves bare.

If gold doubled in value tomorrow would you insist you should be able to buy it at today's price?
 
I damn sure would if I had to. Face it, demand is up, so price is up. What's so hard to understand? Let the market do its thing so we don't have assholes grabbing Everything off the shelves at 8am and selling it on GB for twice as much. Make them pay too and things will gradually return to normal. Keeping prices artificially low keeps the shelves bare.

If gold doubled in value tomorrow would you insist you should be able to buy it at today's price?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not saying people can't sell for whatever they want. They can. The gold argument is a BS red herring that does not represent what I have said. I agree if people stop buying everything on the shelves we have a chance for prices to go back to normal. I have been saying that since April when the run on the bank was in full swing.

I personally am not buying any of it. I am have not bought a single round since March. I have bought bullets, powder and primers. My approach it not to buy anything at inflated prices. I can ride this thing out for 5 years if I have to. I just enjoy the theater of it. It is interesting to watch people react to scarcity. It can be toilet paper or bullets. I find it interesting to watch what drives people and how those wants/needs create market bubbles.

99% of this run is artificial. It is people who think they need more ammo buying ammo they don't really need. IMHO. Most people are buying in an irrational manner but that is what scarcity and fear do to people. People like ODL and CTD are simply capitalizing on it to and extreme. I think they will reap the short term benefits but in the end they will hurt their rep and their sales in the long run.
 
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Was in the neighborhood of Academy in Winston this afternoon. They had a few boxes of .40 and no other handgun ammo at all.

Did you buy it. LOL
 
I'll tell you this much I would have much rather payed an inflated TP price. Than have to drive to 3 stores to find it.

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Who does number 2 work for?

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I damn sure would if I had to. Face it, demand is up, so price is up. What's so hard to understand? Let the market do its thing so we don't have assholes grabbing Everything off the shelves at 8am and selling it on GB for twice as much. Make them pay too and things will gradually return to normal. Keeping prices artificially low keeps the shelves bare.

If gold doubled in value tomorrow would you insist you should be able to buy it at today's price?

a vendor would be borderline idiotic to sell it at jan 2020 pricing, just to have people buy it all and sell it on the secondary for 75 cents a round or more.
 
Also larger vendors put certain items on sale to get more traffic to their website. Kind of like near the 4th of July the grocery store will sell beer below their cost to get people in the store. Because most people aren't going to just buy beer they will buy all their stuff for a cook out.

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Also larger vendors put certain items on sale to get more traffic to their website. Kind of like near the 4th of July the grocery store will sell beer below their cost to get people in the store. Because most people aren't going to just buy beer they will buy all their stuff for a cook out.

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Yup ammo has traditionally been used as a loss leader by large retailers. Come in buy some 9mm and buy 2 shirts or a pair of boots and the store is way ahead.
 
99% of this run is artificial. It is people who think they need more ammo buying ammo they don't really need. IMHO. Most people are buying in an irrational manner but that is what scarcity and fear do to people. People like ODL and CTD are simply capitalizing on it to and extreme. I think they will reap the short term benefits but in the end they will hurt their rep and their sales in the long run.

You do realize that the vast majority of the GDP is based on people irrationally buying things they don't need right?

I mean there has been a run on TP, eggs, Nintendo switches, frozen pizzas, sandwich meat, and more all year long.
 
I’d bet a good bit of the run on ammunition is due to the number of new firearms owners. If they are buying up ammo and using it to practice/learn their weapons, I see that as a positive. Yeah, it may suck for others who are accustomed to shooting high quantities, but those same folks are more proficient with their arms (or should be) than the new gun owner(s).
 
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I’d bet a good bit of the run on ammunition is due to the number of new firearms owners. If they are buying up ammo and using it to practice/learn their weapons, I see that as a positive. Yeah, it may suck for others who are accustomed to shooting high quantities, but those same folks are more proficient with their arms (or should be) than the new gun owner(s).

roughly 5 million new gunowners out there this year. Assuming they only bought 50 rounds of ammo that would be at least 250 million rounds of extra demand, which while rather conservative alone equates to just over 3% of 2018's production, just by itself.
 
I’d bet a good bit of the run on ammunition is due to the number of new firearms owners. If they are buying up ammo and using it to practice/learn their weapons, I see that as a positive. Yeah, it may suck for others who are accustomed to shooting high quantities, but those same folks are more proficient with their arms (or should be) than the new gun owner(s).

I agree there are a lot of new owners but time will tell if they become shooters. I have personally told new gun owners now is not the time to buy tons of ammo to train. Get 200 rounds. Shoot some to get an understanding of how the gun works and then put the rest away to keep you safe. If history repeats itself most of these guns will sit in a drawer for most of their lifetime with the ammo it was bought with.
 
You do realize that the vast majority of the GDP is based on people irrationally buying things they don't need right?

I mean there has been a run on TP, eggs, Nintendo switches, frozen pizzas, sandwich meat, and more all year long.

Yup and the key is to never get caught in irrationally buying at peak pricing.
 
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