Depends a little on what you need. If you want a nice old double refurbished you can talk to me. Other work, send me a PM.
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My most recent experience with Triangle Shooting Academy
- Thread starter mhuxtable
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Depends a little on what you need. If you want a nice old double refurbished you can talk to me. Other work, send me a PM.
It makes no difference if a gunsmith has one or 1000 guns to work on. Tell the customer up front how long it's going to be whether it's 3 months, 6 months or a year. Be honest about turnaround times. If you tell someone that they can get their gun in a week and 2 months later they still don't have it, that's not being honest. In this case, the gunsmith should meet the OP at the shop and give him his gun back.
He is honest, but not realistic. His intent is not to mislead anyone.
I can report the alternate ... at least 2, maybe 3 online purchases through them, they called the day after they got it (before I could get around to calling them) and I went in and completed the deal the same afternoon with no issues at all. This was when they were North Raleigh Guns - before TSA.
As far as gunsmith - I asked him about what I believed to be a well known G19 problem and getting hit in the head with shell cases. He said he had never heard of it, no idea what could be causing it but would be happy to look at the gun but it would be 2-3 weeks so I walked. Google on the other hand is very well aware of it. Asked him if he had much experience with G19s and he said yes, tons. Went to FG&G the next day, they looked at it, gave me a new extractor of slightly different version and said give it a try ... no charge and they even swapped it around while I stood there. Never was hit by another shell case. Not saying you could make much judgement of Kapp based on that but it didn't instill any confidence in me.
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Well, he is misleading the OP whether it is his intent or not. He knew how many guns he had backed up to work on when the OP dropped his off. He needs to meet the OP or have someone else open his safe and give the OP his gun back. There is no excuse.
OP
Just so everyone knows (in case you missed it).
They do have my gun (not in the safe). They offered for me to pick it up, said the part was on order.
I asked when would Kapp realistically be in, they send end of next week.
I told them I'd be picking up the gun Oct 2 whether it was finished or not.
They said they'd make it work. So we will see.
They do have my gun (not in the safe). They offered for me to pick it up, said the part was on order.
I asked when would Kapp realistically be in, they send end of next week.
I told them I'd be picking up the gun Oct 2 whether it was finished or not.
They said they'd make it work. So we will see.
poller
Well-Known Member
I appreciate your defending your friend (and potential employer) in the face of what appears to be an onslaught of negative feedback.
Unfortunately, while many people have the talent and skills to be in business, many do not have the talent, skills, or knowledge to run a business. This is especially the case where people take their passion and turn it into a business such gunsmiths -- who most often rely on word-of-mouth to build their clientele.
If you can't manage customer expectations and customer experience, you have no business running a business. This goes for the gunsmith or multimillion dollar operations like TSA (and Outdoor Limited). One upset customer can kill the business.
Take what you wrote and substitute car for gun, and mechanic for gunsmith. I doubt you or anyone else would accept a friend of the mechanic saying "There’s 250 (guns) cars back there to be fixed, the majority of which he has to fix by himself." What the customer hears you say is "He'll get to it when he gets to it, and in the meantime, you're out of luck without your car/gun, so just Fsck Off!"
The proper way to run a business is to a) set expectations at the outset, and b) meet or exceed customer expectations. When you can't meet expectations, communicate appropriately with the customer to reset expectations. Hiding your head in the sand is about the worst thing to do, and only exacerbates the issue, feeding a never-ending negative feedback loop.
As it is, your friend the gunsmith will not be making a profit by working on the OP's gun. Worse, he continues to cause reputational damage and lose future customers and profits by retaining the gun.
Your friend the gunsmith would be best served by having you or the CEO of TSA retrieve the gun at issue and delivering it to the OP. ASAP. While the OP will probably never do business again with the gunsmith or TSA, both may still be able to salvage their reputations, retain other customers, and not lose future business.
I'm surprised at the poor judgement of the CEO of TSA. They clearly have invested millions of dollars into building a class-A space, and have millions more invested in inventory. While the gunsmith may be a subcontractor, it's TSA's name on the door, and you can't get to the gunsmith without first entering TSA.
As a consumer, I don't give a flying damn about anything other than getting what I paid for when it was promised to me. And that's what's happening here. When the gunsmith screws up, TSA takes the blame. While I'm perfectly happy to spend time throwing dollar bills downrange at TSA, based on what you have said I won't be availing myself of TSA's gunsmithing services.
Unfortunately for you, you're suffering collateral damage. It's highly likely that I (and others) won't avail myself of your services either, as it's more than likely you will follow the same miserable lack-of-business practices you defend. I'd go as far as saying that recommendations from you for other gunsmiths are also suspect. I would get a second and third opinion for anyone you recommend to make sure that they can deliver at the price point and time they promise.
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OP
This is my point. TSA is on the door, he needs to know whats going on in every department.
However where we differ is I will not be patronizing them at all after this. Not at the gunsmith, not at the range. There's other options for me to patronize a place that takes ownership of how their business works.
fieldgrade
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I never went back to TSA after they insisted on my range card (which I had), or my name, to purchase $4 bottle of Hoppe’s gun oil.
Trcubed had a pile of $1000 worth of non-serialized rifle parts piled on their counter to purchase and walked out for the same reason.
Trcubed had a pile of $1000 worth of non-serialized rifle parts piled on their counter to purchase and walked out for the same reason.
What an arrogant thing to write. You don’t know me, my business practices, quality of work, standards for communication. Nothing. Pathetic and disgusting.
I am not employed by Mr. Ogburn, have no vested interest in what TSA does or does not do, and I owe the OP nothing. What I attempted to do was help explain what I knew of the circumstances effecting the situation, so that people would not write the kind of crap you did, and support a friend who deserves to be supported.
By providing this kind of text you are are articulating that you are precisely the kind of customer I would never want to have. If others here feel the same as what you wrote, I hope they reconsider believing as you do.
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Honestly I’ve seen people stand at the counter waiting for service without so much as an “I’ll be with you as soon as I can” long enough to turn and walk out the door. North Raleigh Gun was not like that but the “guntry club” lost something.
With the cafe owner leaving for various reasons I’m wondering how that service will shift.
Bill and his partner need to step back and look at TSA’s State of the Union especially with OnPoint opening, the ammo apocalypse and possible political shift if Biden wins ...
With the cafe owner leaving for various reasons I’m wondering how that service will shift.
Bill and his partner need to step back and look at TSA’s State of the Union especially with OnPoint opening, the ammo apocalypse and possible political shift if Biden wins ...
TSA needs the 100yd range built ASAP. I too have gotten cold shoulder while waiting for my inbound FFL transfers, you stay at the counter and other folks walk up on the other end and you are forgotten and I'm a member. Edit: I get my inbound guns same day they are delivered when I visit my preferred LGS in Raleigh.
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In this recent environment and such I do not think have the financial stability to undertake the Phase II part. Bill kinda sorta said something a few years back when asked about the Phase II timeframe how expensive it was and their business plan needed to met certain milestones first.
With the economic and political crap going on now I honestly just want to see Bill keep the lights on ...
poller
Well-Known Member
That's right, I don't know you.
I can only know you by what you write, just as you can only know me by what I write. You have interpreted what I wrote as arrogant.
I'm good with that, because I have learned from what you wrote that you don't present yourself as customer-centric, and don't appear to understand how small businesses live and die by reputation.
Unfortunately, what you ended up doing was a) defend your friend's poor business practices, and b) tell the OP to "be more patient" when the OP clearly has expressed his frustrations after repeatedly attempting to contact your friend. He was way beyond being patient when he posted the original complaint.
As a small businessman, I have had to fire customers. I'm happy to be fired by you.
Yes, they also announced a second location at the old Lowe's building in Greensboro but that was tabled.
I'm not sure, I asked Bill how the plans were going last year and he said they put that project on hold.
I don’t see Bill that often anymore but I swear he was happier with just North Raleigh Guns ...
I remember giving him hell about some of his first photos for NRG on the interweb holding 2 ARs with both fingers on the triggers. From real estate to firearms he learned quick and NGR did well and he seemed to enjoy it. TSA ... while a major facility just doesn’t seem to let him be Bill ...
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His other partner from up that way backed out on him from what I had heard.
He isn’t, they got so big and so much more complex with the range and such that he has so many more stresses on him that simply weren’t there at NRG. I miss NRG myself
I defended a man in a bad situation, that is not entirely of his own making.
I did not tell the OP to be more patient, but I’m sure the OP can speak for himself on that specific point, and if he feels I did so I will apologize.
I put my name in my post, so please add yours if you’re going take personal shots at people who have done now wrong here. I’d appreciate knowing your business as well in order to avoid it. Mine is Nice Old Double Gunworks, LLC. 100% happy and satisfied customer base.
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I heard that 3rd party also ...
The very first location in the back of that complex that was maybe 1,000 sq ft was really great.
poller
Well-Known Member
On re-reading what I wrote, I realize I have been harsh and did take a personal pot shot at you. For that, I publicly apologize.
Jack Poller
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I have nothing but good things to say about Kapp's performance and turnaround as a smith. My HK MR556 was just there about a week or two ago and was returned in a timely fashion.
I actually have to bring it back for an additional service once a new part comes in. They're swamped right now, and I immediately recognized that; as such, I know not to get in a hurry or get all worked up over the time required to have services rendered.
I actually have to bring it back for an additional service once a new part comes in. They're swamped right now, and I immediately recognized that; as such, I know not to get in a hurry or get all worked up over the time required to have services rendered.
OP
Update: Kapp called and my gun is ready. My part was still on back order so he pulled the spring from another S&W of his own and fixed my gun. He was as pleasant as could be.
He apologized for the lack of communication.
I’m happy with the result. Just not pleased that the owner of TSA seems to not know what is going on in his own store.
overall a good outcome.
He apologized for the lack of communication.
I’m happy with the result. Just not pleased that the owner of TSA seems to not know what is going on in his own store.
overall a good outcome.
I'd been a few times to NRG, more recently maybe half a dozen times to TSA. Never bought anything at either. However the range is nice, but having to watch a safety video every visit is obnoxious. Almost as obnoxious as their firearm prices.
This man is not capable of a willful lie. If he says this^^^^ it's what happened. Sad way to run a retail gunstore. We had one here with unbelievable guns in stock.....lasted less than a year. Counter help Sucked! Soooo they are defunct!
I've purchased five used handguns at TSA, that it the first place I look when I go there each week.
You should only have to watch it once a year, at least that was how it was last time I was there, which was August 2019 apparently. Get a "range card" which is then good for a year and you can pay $20 every time you visit within that year but you shouldn't need to watch the video.
Maybe I don't understand the business, but the man is running a gun store at a time when guns and ammo fly off the shelf as fast as they arrive. I heard from an insider a year ago that things were not going as well as they had hoped, but in this environment, how can they not be making big money?
BudE
Hillsborough, NC
However, this is something you should definitely mention to the owner. Tell him that the safe might be empty. That combination has to be around somewhere just in case the guy did drop dead.
I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH (DO NOT WORK THERE OR A MEMBER) ...
Just remember a business might take in a bunch of money BUT they might have a crap load going out in debt and operational costs. That place won’t cheap to build and ain’t cheap to operate (salaries, utilities, insurance, etc). Bill and TSA shutdown because of Cooper the first part of the Scamdemic and even now they are operating on short hours ... which might not be helping in addition to many people not going because of the Scamdemic ... I would bet it isn’t helping them though.
Mondays reserved for new shooter classes, so members and public can only shoot Tuesday to Sunday and they close early at 6PM, last shooters at 4:30PM. Members do have a priority line while non members have their own line.
They did extend our memberships for the CV shutdown weeks.
They did extend our memberships for the CV shutdown weeks.
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No customer guns are stored in the gunsmith’s safe, only his personal property. Customer guns are in the repair space, and TSA administrative staff have access to that space.
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For a while they were offering us old guys $10 range time on Mondays. Is that gone?
BudE
Hillsborough, NC
That being the case there is no reason the OP cannot get his property back immediately. It also raises the possibility he was being lied to.
I don't see Sr. Tuesday, Women's Wednesday or Date Night Thursday on the calendar.
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Scrubber3
Well-Known Member
Hippa will not prevent a non-heathcare person from telling anyone anything.