Cast vs FMJ load data

Harold2689

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We went to the Asheville Gun Show today, and a friend of mine who I buy all my primers from started selling cast bullets again. I bought 500 lead cast and polymer coated 9mm 115 gr. bullets for $40.00. (he had them MARKED as 115 gr)

I usually use X-treme 9mm, 115 gr, RN HPCB Bullets. I load 4.3 gr HP-38 powder, with OAL at 1.110. This has been my standard 9 mm load. I know, it's light, but it works in all of our guns except my wife's G26 in HER hands...

When I got home, I weighed these bullets, and every one weighs in at 126.xxx grains. So Far, I've checked the Hornady 9th edition, Lyman 49th edition, the Lee Second edition, and an old Hodgen data book. Can I use the data provided for 124 gr FMJ, or do I have to find a recipe for lead CAST bullets? Would the OAL be the same for FMJ as for CAST?

I was going to start with the Bullseye recipe for 125 gr Jacketed HP from the Lyman book which starts at 3.9 min. - 4.5 max grains, with OAL at 1.075 (pg. 341) As always, start low, and work my way up.

Figured I'd ask for advice from those of you who know more than me...
 
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I would start a little lower with BE. Like 3.5 or .6 I wanna say (not home) my 124 cast load is 3.8 BE.

You will probably be well served to figure your COL by plunk testing to determine your shortest chamber and then loading about .01 shorter than what plunks in that.

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Loads for jacketed bullets generally call for more powder than do the loads for lead/coated bullets of the same weight. A max load for jacketed may be over max for lead. Look at several different data sets for lead bullets and pay special attention to the loads for the next heaviest lead bullet.
 
Loads for jacketed bullets generally call for more powder than do the loads for lead/coated bullets of the same weight. A max load for jacketed may be over max for lead. Look at several different data sets for lead bullets and pay special attention to the loads for the next heaviest lead bullet.

I didn't know that, so I took your advice and checked several more load books, and on line. According to what I found pretty much everywhere, you are absolutely right. I still consider myself a green novice at reloading, so I thank everyone for the advice and all the knowledge I gain here.

I was going to start with 3.9 gr Bullseye, and work up toward the published max of 4.2 gr. This was for a 124 gr FMJ RN bullet. My bullets actually weigh in at 126.xxx, and are polymer coated cast lead. After learning what you said, I found other data for Bullseye with LEAD CAST 124gr bullets to start at 2.5 gr. (Big difference from the 3.9 gr I was going to START with!!!) They specified COL at 1.045" I've been seating COL at 1.100 with no cycling or loading problems in any of our guns, so I wanted to stay at that length. I also knew that with a longer COL, I would most likely need a little more powder...

I started at 2.5 gr Bullseye, and seated to 1.100". Loaded two rounds, and took them out in the back yard, and fired one at a time in my G26. Functioned the slide well enough to eject the cartridge, light recoil, but wouldn't lock the slide back. Went back inside and bumped the load up to 2.8 gr. Same performance, slide still did not lock back. Bumped the load up to 3.2 gr, and they had a MUCH better feel, and the slide locked back fine. I bumped the load up to 3.5 gr, and that felt really good. I don't have a "range" in my back yard. I do have a "slope" of dirt that I fired into, basically firing almost into the ground. I was going strictly for operation and "feel" of the gun at this point.

I came back in, and to verify my 3.5 grain charge, threw 10 charges into the pan on my scale, and they totaled 35.1 grains. I'd say that was pretty good. I loaded 100 rounds, marked them, and we're ready to take them to the range and see how well they (we) shoot.

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Here's the polymer coated lead bullets I bought.


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Here they are all loaded, marked, and ready to take to the range.



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This is the load data sheet that I print out from my loading database for this "set."
 
Just got back from the range. We fired all 100 rounds: 25 in my G26, 25 in my wife's G26, and 25 in each of our G43's. Every round fired with no problems at all. Zero malfunctions. Accuracy for me was considerably better in my G26 than my G43. My wife did well in both of her guns.

One thing I observed while my wife was shooting was the big cloud of smoke each round produced. Isn't Bullseye supposed to be "smokeless" powder? My wife said she noticed the same thing while I was shooting, plus a pretty good "flash of fire" too.

It will be interesting to see what the chronograph shows if I ever get a chance to set it up before I use up all of these bullets. From now on, I think I'll stick with copper plated bullets. These were only a penny cheaper per round than plated. Now I'll get to see how dirty the guns are, and if there's any lead fouling in the barrels.

This morning I went outside with the metal detector pin-pointer probe and dug up 4 of the bullets I test-fired yesterday. They were a little over a foot deep, and quite deformed. My wife remarked at the amount of deformation, as soft as the ground is... I said, yeah, but they were moving really fast when they hit that "soft" ground... grin.gif
 
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What should have taken no more than 15 or 20 minutes to clean our guns stretched into well over two HOURS! I think I'll take the rest of these bullets and set them way in the back of the reloading supply cabinet for emergency use as a last resort if/when the SHTF. There was lead buildup in the barrels of all four guns, the G43's both worse than the G26's. We got MOST of it out with a LOT of elbow grease, cleaning solvent and copper wire bore brushes.

I don't know if more shooting with FMJ bullets will make what little lead is still in the barrels easier or harder to remove in the future. Hope it will come out with more scrubbing as we keep cleaning after each future use.

This was the first time we've used lead coated bullets in our Glocks, and I don't see much more use any time soon. Well, it was a learning experience on a couple of fronts...
 
Not all coated bullets are created equal. I tried one small company a few years ago that smoked so much that I had to wait for the cloud to disperse so I could finish the stage during a match. Using Blues or Bayous I have next to zero smoke.
 
Bullseye is pretty smokey for "smoke-less" powder IMHO...
 
There are a few things that can cause leading with coated bullets: damage to the coating from too much crimp, or too little flare; size way off; poor coating.

For removal get some all copper chore boy or generic all copper scouring pad, wrap old bore brush or jag until it fit the bore tight, scrub bore with that, dry, will have a bore that looks like sewer pipe shining in a couple dozen passes. Make certain you don't end up with copper washed steel.

Bullseye can be a little smokey, especially light charges, muzzle flash is rare. Some coating also smoke a lot as Wolffy stated.

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Just curious...is shooting coated lead bullets in factory Glock barrels frowned upon like shooting cast bullets in them is?

I run Lone Wolf barrels in all mine, but was wondering what experience y'all had with factory barrels?
 
Just curious...is shooting coated lead bullets in factory Glock barrels frowned upon like shooting cast bullets in them is?

I run Lone Wolf barrels in all mine, but was wondering what experience y'all had with factory barrels?
No it is not.
A good coating undamaged will leave no lead at all in a Glock barrel if it is sized proper or obturates easily enough. Ran 1500 or more blues and zombies without cleaning when I first played with coated, cleaned spotless with just patches and solvent.

You can make traditional lubed lead run with little/no leading with a little patience and knowledge also.

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The only coated bullets I've tried are the Bayou and the L13 Zombies. I did not notice any leading with either of those. The Bayou bullets had a distinct odor if the wind was blowing in the right direction, a faint smell similar to burnt electrical wires.

I shot some cast/lubed bullets before, lots of smoke.

I've pretty much decided to stick with plated bullets, or in some cases FMJ. Not anything wrong with coated, just more of a personal preference.
 
There are a few things that can cause leading with coated bullets: damage to the coating from too much crimp, or too little flare; size way off; poor coating.

For removal get some all copper chore boy or generic all copper scouring pad, wrap old bore brush or jag until it fit the bore tight, scrub bore with that, dry, will have a bore that looks like sewer pipe shining in a couple dozen passes. Make certain you don't end up with copper washed steel.

Bullseye can be a little smokey, especially light charges, muzzle flash is rare. Some coating also smoke a lot as Wolffy stated.

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I don't believe the flare or the crimp is a problem. Every bullet I measured were all a solid .3560 in diameter, and bullet length averaged .5638 out of the 100 I measured. As for the coating, I can't say.

I found a pack of copper scrubby pads that we had, but a simple magnet test proved that they were copper covered steel. We'll definitely get some pure copper pads and try your method. We managed to remove about 95% of the lead fouling, but I really want to get rid of whatever still remains. Thanks for the tip.
 
Not all coated bullets are created equal. I tried one small company a few years ago that smoked so much that I had to wait for the cloud to disperse so I could finish the stage during a match. Using Blues or Bayous I have next to zero smoke.


I would have never thought that the bullets could cause smoke... I thought smoke and a belching fireball would be cause solely by the powder...
 
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