223 reloading frustration

jmccracken1214

jmccracken1214

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Tried out a bunch of loads today from my ruger american 223. 60 gr v max bullets, cfe223 powder...

Shot every load in the hornady handbook and 25.7gr's shot an amazing 5 shot group... loaded up 5 more... it was a 6" group! tried again.. same results. used dif dies, same result... All rounds were seated to 2.250 which is what the book calls for... Tried 26gr, that shot decent. maybe .75" group.

My friend loaded some of his 69gr SMK's at 25.7gr powder but seated them higher, at 2.300, they wont fit in my magazine this way but all 5 rounds in a single hole!!!

I tried probably 12 loads with the 60gr and couldnt get anything decent. Slightly annoyed that the best shooting one, I cant take yotes with (SMK bullets) and cant use my mag with it.

Any suggestions?
 
Individually weighing powder charges? No possibility things got mixed up?
Great to 6" is pretty wild. The best groups I have ever shot were with 60gr Vmaxs, not that it matters.
Try OCW http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/ocw-instructions/4529817134 for load development, if some minor change threw a load in the dumpster it wasn't a good load.
Why no SMK for yotes? It won't grenade itself quite as reliable as the Vmax but should work fine if you put in the vitals, the 69gr can be loaded to 2.26, they're pretty jump tolerant, wouldn't expect a huge change in accuracy.
 
I try a variety of bullets. I tried 68gr Hornady bullets in my rifle....it HATED them. I tried 69gr SMKs with various loads and shot this with 5 rounds at 100yds:

ljt7lMW.jpg


You just gotta keep at it.

FYI:
69gr Sierra Match Kings
24.1gr Reloader 15
CCI Small Rifle Primers (not the fancy ones)
2.258" OAL (just shy of mag length)

out of a 16" Rainier Match barrel with 1:8 twist.
 
Dif brass but I loaded the same load, 30 rounds and shot in 5 round groups, some did better but nothing came close to being as good as the first group.

When I seated the smk to 2.25, they did bad, seated at 2.3 with 25.7gr of cfe223 it did amazing but won't fit in the mag
 
Is this the first time shooting the CFE? Or have you shot it before? Check the chamber and barrel to see if it's clean. The CFE line has a reputation for doing some funny fouling things to chambers, and the first part of the rifling. I guess it fights copper, at the cost of other parts of the gun. I was all set to jump on CFE300BLK until I started reading about guys having to use lapping compound to clean it out of their chamber. No thanks.
 
This is my first time. It looked pretty decent. The first 3-4 inches of the barrel had a lot of powder residue but that's it. After 30 rounds.

I'm thinking of trying either varget or some ramshot tac
chiefjason said:
Is this the first time shooting the CFE? Or have you shot it before? Check the chamber and barrel to see if it's clean. The CFE line has a reputation for doing some funny fouling things to chambers, and the first part of the rifling. I guess it fights copper, at the cost of other parts of the gun. I was all set to jump on CFE300BLK until I started reading about guys having to use lapping compound to clean it out of their chamber. No thanks.
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jmccracken1214 said:
This is my first time. It looked pretty decent. The first 3-4 inches of the barrel had a lot of powder residue but that's it. After 30 rounds.

I'm thinking of trying either varget or some ramshot tac
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If you're using 60gr VMax, you could try Reloder 10x, Reloder 15, AR-Comp, 8208 XBR....I haven't had good luck with 4064.

If you're limiting your projectiles, its gonna limit your results. Your barrel might hate those.
 
chiefjason said:
Is this the first time shooting the CFE? Or have you shot it before? Check the chamber and barrel to see if it's clean. The CFE line has a reputation for doing some funny fouling things to chambers, and the first part of the rifling. I guess it fights copper, at the cost of other parts of the gun. I was all set to jump on CFE300BLK until I started reading about guys having to use lapping compound to clean it out of their chamber. No thanks.
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CFE uses tin IIRC to give the copper something to more readily bond to, does "carbon" foul bad at low charges, haven't had CFE223 do it so bad I had to address it, low charge accuracy sucked so I didn't run more than 50 light rounds.

FWIW CFE is not the only powder to use copper fouling reducers nor is the tech particularly new, they're just the one to advertise it. R10x supposedly had the amount of its copper fouling reducer decreased due to accounts of smoke and heavy carbon fouling in early lots. Never heard of any being lapping required bad, but I don't keep up on the 300.
 
1:8" is good, 16"good.. you are not limited much on selection.

I tell you what I found to be a good mix is 24.2 Grains of H335 on a 55-Vmax. That's for the daughter's Howa 1500 in 1:12" (no heavies and usually likes a flat base). She shot a .225" 5-Round Group.

Just got to try different stuff.. it will get there.
 
VA_GENTLEMAN said:
1:8" is good, 16"good.. you are not limited much on selection.

I tell you what I found to be a good mix is 24.2 Grains of H335 on a 55-Vmax. That's for the daughter's Howa 1500 in 1:12" (no heavies and usually likes a flat base). She shot a .225" 5-Round Group.

Just got to try different stuff.. it will get there.
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Im wondering now if its my brass... Ive taken a lot of time and carefully sized it all the same and trimmed the same, but I do have a mix, it was all given to me, Ive got Lake City, PMC, Wolf and some other unknown stuff. Ive checked it and thrown the bad out, or the short cases, etc....

Should I just sell the lot of brass (800+) pieces and buy some good match brass or what?
 
Try a different bullet. I have had rifles that did not like certain bullets that other rifles shot very well.
 
I went through a similar situation with 223 in several rifles. In several AR style rifles, Remington 55 grain SP bullets would produce 5"-6" groups at 100 yards. Hornady 55 grain SP bullets produced 1" and under groups. The only thing different between the loads was the bullet.

My M700 Remington in 223 also did not like the Remington 55 grain SP bullets. It shoots the Hornady 55 grain bullets fairly well and 40 grain V-Max like a laser. I tried longer V-Max in it one time and was not impressed even though those bullets do well in my AR's. The 60 grain Barnes would tumble out of the M700 but shoot very well in my AR's with a tighter twist.

My M70 338 WM does not like the Nosler Partitions that my nephew's A-Bolt shoots beautifully. It does fairly well with several Hornady bullets but amazingly well with 210 grain Barnes. I worked several months trying to get the Noslers to work and tried a whole bunch of different loading combinations. My rifle likes what it likes and it does not like those Noslers. I have used Noslers with great success in several other rifles, but not in that one.

The point is that you may not be able to get that particular bullet to shoot to your expectations in your particular rifle. If all your tinkering with loads does not work, you might want to try different bullets.
 
Charlie said:
I went through a similar situation with 223 in several rifles. In several AR style rifles, Remington 55 grain SP bullets would produce 5"-6" groups at 100 yards. Hornady 55 grain SP bullets produced 1" and under groups. The only thing different between the loads was the bullet.

My M700 Remington in 223 also did not like the Remington 55 grain SP bullets. It shoots the Hornady 55 grain bullets fairly well and 40 grain V-Max like a laser. I tried longer V-Max in it one time and was not impressed even though those bullets do well in my AR's. The 60 grain Barnes would tumble out of the M700 but shoot very well in my AR's with a tighter twist.

My M70 338 WM does not like the Nosler Partitions that my nephew's A-Bolt shoots beautifully. It does fairly well with several Hornady bullets but amazingly well with 210 grain Barnes. I worked several months trying to get the Noslers to work and tried a whole bunch of different loading combinations. My rifle likes what it likes and it does not like those Noslers. I have used Noslers with great success in several other rifles, but not in that one.

The point is that you may not be able to get that particular bullet to shoot to your expectations in your particular rifle. If all your tinkering with loads does not work, you might want to try different bullets.
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We got the SMK to shoot well when seated too long to fit in the mag, I sold the Hornady bullets and got some Sierra. Going to work all the loads in the book first and go from there. Got the topped and bthp. And bought varget powder too. Going to load with cfe and varget and see what I come up with
 
Ammoparts.com said:
I do buckets full for 20 bucks. I don't know how much is in a bucket but I think it is around 1200
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If I can find someone who's coming from your area to my area, since I'm sure you don't want to do freight, I'd be in for a bucket.
 
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