Reporter Denied Shotgun Sale

YeeHaa

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I realized the people at the store were right. They cared enough about who would be using the weapon they were selling to not place it in the hands of someone acting a little crazy.

Careful readers will note that the unnamed big box firearms retailer did not violate Mr. Finley’s Second Amendment rights. The Second Amendment prohibits the government from infringing on his right to keep and bear arms, not a private enterprise.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ws-reporter-nolan-finley-denied-shotgun-sale/
 
I realized the people at the store were right. They cared enough about who would be using the weapon they were selling to not place it in the hands of someone acting a little crazy.

Careful readers will note that the unnamed big box firearms retailer did not violate Mr. Finley’s Second Amendment rights. The Second Amendment prohibits the government from infringing on his right to keep and bear arms, not a private enterprise.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ws-reporter-nolan-finley-denied-shotgun-sale/

Sounds like a staged event. Maybe he thought if he "couldn't get it just right" enough times, the greedy staff would simply say, "waaal, tha's aright! You look like a good guy" and sell him the gun anyway, after which he would have told a different story for his newspaper--that the store is indeed a cabal of willing death-machine vendors, or that the current background check system is inadequate and must be replaced with ATF anal probes and universal gun registry...
 
All he wanted to do was buy a shotgun so he could exercise his 2nd amendment right to go hunting.

How much is this fool getting paid?
I filled out a 4473 today for the umpteen hundredth time. A thousand years ago the very first one I filled out I put down the wrong county, but I've gotten every one after that right. This cat goes through multiple copies within minutes and never gets it right. It's so hard!
For those who've never filled one out, this is it-

Name, first last middle
Height, weight
Where were you born
Not Latino
White
Yes, no no no no no no no no no no n/a
Sign/date

Maybe if he were to carefully read each question instead of arrogantly assuming he knew all the answers before he did, he'd have a nice O/U shotgun today. I've said it before...these libby's think you just go into a gun store and buy a gun.
When they actually get in the store...deer in the headlights.
 
I don't think anyone is supposed to "help" a customer fill out the form. Hmm.
This is my understanding as well. My FFL who I've used for about 5yr and is a member here basically shuts up when I start filling it out or uses it as an opportunity to step out of the room real quick. Maybe this is to prevent me from making a mistake, or maybe it's a combination of both, but the form is pretty straight forward if you simply read it.

Maybe some people have problems with the form because we're so conditioned to just check the box and sign below, since you have no choice but to accept said terms of you want to good/service.
 
I agree that it looks like a staged setup to do a librul hit piece that was thwarted.

Still, I can't help but read this and realize there should be no form 4473. By all rights he should have walked in, picked out what he wanted, paid, and left with the item.
 
Why should he have to pay? Everyone knows businesses are just about ripping off customers.
 
My dad was a car dealer. You know what happens when customer writes something wrong on a title? You go apply for a new title. He would say, "sign your name exactly as it appears at the top, Joseph Paul Smith". And they would sign "Joe Smith". Got so bad, he started giving them a blank sheet of paper to practice on.
 
Finley said: I had misspelled my last name :confused: Really - who over the age of 12 misspells their OWN name!!! Being severely ADHD I frequently misspell words. My brain gets ahead of my fingers and letters are missed. BUT I NEVER MISSPELL my own NAME!! This guy was on a mission and did not do his homework. Wonder if there is a domestic abuse complaint against him in the past? Seems probable with his anger issues!
 
Form 4473 isn't difficult to fill out. When I did my first one years ago, I'll admit I was a bit nervous about getting something wrong, but as long as you keep your nose clean, you can answer every question honestly without an issue.

I can see a gun shop explaining a question or two to a first time gun buyer if they're confused, but refusing a sale because someone just can't fill the form out correctly seems totally fine to me.
 
I want to know what button was pressed to send the form off? Even on the electronic version I use the form is not sent anywhere, in fact it is printed and signed just like the standard paper version. This smells totally made up unless michigan has some wierd online system they use in place of the atf 4473.

"After the salesperson hit the send button, I noticed I had misspelled my last name. So I had to start over. And over. And over. And over."
 
You can help a customer understand a question or blank you just cannot give them the "right" answer.

Thank you. I made my previous comment based not specifically knowing the exact wording of a statute or rule concerning the form (because I don't, to be honest), but on my own personal observations while buying firearms over the years.

Some dealers will simply say they cannot help with it at all and some may wink and silently nudge a person to help a little, but I got the impression that they were not supposed to give assistance and were careful not to.
 
Thank you. I made my previous comment based not specifically knowing the exact wording of a statute or rule concerning the form (because I don't, to be honest), but on my own personal observations while buying firearms over the years.

Some dealers will simply say they cannot help with it at all and some may wink and silently nudge a person to help a little, but I got the impression that they were not supposed to give assistance and were careful not to.

You cannot help them answer questions but if they do not understand one you can go through the directions and such and help them understand the question.
 
You can help a customer understand a question or blank you just cannot give them the "right" answer.
That's interesting. Where I live there is no county, the city incorporated the entire county in the 80s. So I always ask how the store likes to fill in the county block, either "city of" or "NA". I wonder if they have been breaking the rules by answering me.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
 
the county name doesn't change, like where I live Durham city in Durham county

Virginia is different in that regard. They literally got rid of the county in a few areas. Think it a,so has something to do about them being a commonwealth.

And people are all the time asking for the "right" answers for that form. I can help with postal abbreviations and dates. Other than that, while we can explain the question can't give them answers.
 
I want to know what button was pressed to send the form off? Even on the electronic version I use the form is not sent anywhere, in fact it is printed and signed just like the standard paper version. This smells totally made up unless michigan has some wierd online system they use in place of the atf 4473.

"After the salesperson hit the send button, I noticed I had misspelled my last name. So I had to start over. And over. And over. And over."
The 4473 gets printed and signed, but the unsigned electronic form is what gets sent to ATF for approval. That's the way it worked at Gander.
 
Anyone who can't fill out that form probably shouldn't be allowed out of the house without supervision, or behind the controls of a 4000+ pound machine in public.


There is one spot about mexican or something like that, that your mind messes up. let me grab a copy of the form. One sec. Be right back.

...
....

10 a. Ethnicity I'll put Not Hispanic and then skip 10 b. cause you know, why are you even asking me these questions.

And actually I'm adopted and a dentist told me I had some speckle to my gums so either I am part black or part indian. As far as the Obama diversity census plan, I'm an indian baby. Feather not dot.
 
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I try to buy from locals and here on the forum PRECISELY because I don't want a series of 4473s out there with a catalogue of what I own. Followed that strategy for years, and now the private community seems inundated with Elmer Fudds who demand a "bill of sale" so that they can be "protected" from ATF if they "ask questions." I avoid those folks in the b/s forums, but not without shaking my head in confusion first when I see a good deal and they insist on boogering it up with that nonsense.

For the record, I have screwed up a 4473 before, and had to do a new form. It was for reasons cited above. I am not used to paying attention to the minutae of details on federal forms.
 
The 4473 gets printed and signed, but the unsigned electronic form is what gets sent to ATF for approval. That's the way it worked at Gander.

Nothing gets sent to the ATF for approval. THey are not invovled in firearms sales at any point except if it is mutiple handguns. They definitely do not approve anything.
 
I try to buy from locals and here on the forum PRECISELY because I don't want a series of 4473s out there with a catalogue of what I own. Followed that strategy for years, and now the private community seems inundated with Elmer Fudds who demand a "bill of sale" so that they can be "protected" from ATF if they "ask questions." I avoid those folks in the b/s forums, but not without shaking my head in confusion first when I see a good deal and they insist on boogering it up with that nonsense.
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!!!!!!!!!!
 
There is one spot about mexican or something like that, that your mind messes up. let me grab a copy of the form. One sec. Be right back.

...
....

10 a. Ethnicity I'll put Not Hispanic and then skip 10 b. cause you know, why are you even asking me these questions.

And actually I'm adopted and a dentist told me I had some speckle to my gums so either I am part black or part indian. As far as the Obama diversity census plan, I'm an indian baby. Feather not dot.
You must be part Chow.
 
Nothing gets sent to the ATF for approval. THey are not invovled in firearms sales at any point except if it is mutiple handguns. They definitely do not approve anything.
Picky picky, OK so it's not the ATF, just substitute whatever gov agency they go to for instant background checks. Jeez.
 
Picky picky, OK so it's not the ATF, just substitute whatever gov agency they go to for instant background checks. Jeez.

Not picky, they do not go anywhere. No one gets a copy of the 4473 ever unless I go out of business or they do a trace on a weapon. FBI NICS check is a seperate form that just has the info from the front page, name, physical attributes, place of birth and birthdate along with the type of purchase. FBI never gets any info about what you actually purchased or the serial number of what you purchased.
 
the county name doesn't change, like where I live Durham city in Durham county


Durham County includes a bunch of cities other than Durham. In several places around where I live the borders of the city and the county are the same, and the county name is City of ________ County. Most shops NA the county block when filling out the 4473 for people with an address like that.
 
No one gets a copy of the 4473 ever unless I go out of business or they do a trace on a weapon. ....... FBI never gets any info about what you actually purchased or the serial number of what you purchased.

My but we believe what they tell us, don't we? No thanks. That bunch of consanguinal scum may have different alphabets designating them, but if you believe they are run by people with integrity, intent on keeping their promises, then it is best I just smile and wave to you as I pass by. The second there is some "good reason" (ahem) for dissolving that "protection......" the wall separating agencies will fall faster than a drunk co-ed's prom dress.
 
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I've said it before, I'll say it again: if you take away the rituals and symbology (elections, badges, etc) the behavior of these govco agencies, including police, are no different than that of any other common thug or bully.
 
All he wanted to do was buy a shotgun so he could exercise his 2nd amendment right to go hunting.

How much is this fool getting paid?
I filled out a 4473 today for the umpteen hundredth time. A thousand years ago the very first one I filled out I put down the wrong county, but I've gotten every one after that right. This cat goes through multiple copies within minutes and never gets it right. It's so hard!
For those who've never filled one out, this is it-

Name, first last middle
Height, weight
Where were you born
Not Latino
White
Yes, no no no no no no no no no no n/a
Sign/date

Maybe if he were to carefully read each question instead of arrogantly assuming he knew all the answers before he did, he'd have a nice O/U shotgun today. I've said it before...these libby's think you just go into a gun store and buy a gun.
When they actually get in the store...deer in the headlights.
Well, technically, the name goes last, first, middle...

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
 
Not picky, they do not go anywhere. No one gets a copy of the 4473 ever unless I go out of business or they do a trace on a weapon. FBI NICS check is a seperate form that just has the info from the front page, name, physical attributes, place of birth and birthdate along with the type of purchase. FBI never gets any info about what you actually purchased or the serial number of what you purchased.
This is true.

Heck at Walmart we don't even start Section D until we have an answer from the NICs server.
 
"After the salesperson hit the send button, I noticed I had misspelled my last name. So I had to start over. And over. And over. And over."

It's a Form 4473. If you've been able to fill out those stupid shade-in-the-dots computer scan forms for standardized school tests that have been around since AT LEAST the early 1970s (when I first remember filling them out in grade school), you can fill out a frickin' 4473.


Instead, he came back with the store manager, who eyed me with a worried look and asked why I had pitched such a fit earlier. I tried to explain my computer frustration, but she wasn’t moved.

“We don’t feel comfortable selling you a
gun,” she informed me. “You were in such an agitated state, we just don’t want to take a chance.”

I was embarrassed, shocked, and, in truth, angry all over again. I left the store without the
shotgun. On the way home, I was all tore up about this violation of my Second Amendment rights — until I heard the news out of Texas.

I realized the people at the store were right. They cared enough about who would be using the weapon they were selling to not place it in the hands of someone acting a little crazy.



Actually, this story sounds like a load of horse pucky. While the story is entirely plausible, it just seems mighty coincidental in timing. A "sympathy" piece.

And, of course, he's an idiot who doesn't understand what his "rights" in general are, by his very statement about a private business violating his Second Amendment right...which means he's also of a mind to think that he can say anything he wants any time he wants because that's his "right" as well, even if I tell him to have a nice, piping hot cuppa STFU with a side order of get-the-f*ck-off-my-property.
 
I don't think anyone is supposed to "help" a customer fill out the form. Hmm.

You can help a customer understand a question or blank you just cannot give them the "right" answer.

This.

Though I've never had an occasion where I needed help with this form, they'll happily point out to you the sections in the back of the form which explain all the blocks in detail. Some places I've been to even point this out to everybody they hand the form to.

They will NOT tell you what to put on the form. (They should not, any way.)
 
Form 4473 shouldn't exist in the first place.
 
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