....or "lack of class".
Denver Defense in Denver, NC abruptly closing it's doors
- Thread starter SPM
- Start date
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....or "lack of class".
hlpressley
Member
Where did you see hate? No reason to asssume anything, I generally say what’s on my mind and never once made mention of hate.
My issues with PBR are with Jim Litzy and Dan Swartz, most have no idea who they are, hence why they have no issue with PBR. If your experience there has been good, please continue to patronize them as often as you’d like. Based on my experience, I won’t be. Carry on.
TripleO7
Well-Known Member
I mentioned in a previous post that Next Level Armory may work to some extent with pre-2018 cards. It sounded like a discount, although maybe not the full face value. I've met Andre over there and he was very helpful. I've not been over there since they expanded in to having more in the way of firearms and related items. Before they were mainly prepper oriented with a few guns, some ammo and doing transfers.
They didn't actually buy DD, they were the ones trying to help them survive. They didn't shut down DD either, they just withdrew when they were told they could "kiss off" after whatever the disagreement was with DD's actual owners. My understanding was the disagreement happened right after the big sale advertisement, but was unrelated to that ad. More to do with past shenanigans coming to light.
TripleO7
Well-Known Member
WTF.
I read the latest from DD on FB. I'm done with them for the time being. Even if they do come back "soon".
I too was told back in Feb. that LKN was buying DD and that it would only be a bit and the deal would be done. So I got a membership because they finally were offering a reasonable rate monthly. This whole scenario is why I am wary of paying all up front. All the while getting emails from LKN mentioning their 3 locations, "soon to be four." Then last week, as I was killing time before heading over to DD, I opened my email. Surprise! Nothing from them after that. Just forum speculation and not really informative FB posts.
Soo...I go over to LKN Saturday and the counter guy told me they were accomodating DD customers through that day. I inquired about memberships, etc. and signed up.. That's where I will stay for now. I don't know who orchestrated the goat rodeo all of them were participating in, but whoever was in charge made a lot of mistakes handling the PR part of the deal.
I read the latest from DD on FB. I'm done with them for the time being. Even if they do come back "soon".
I too was told back in Feb. that LKN was buying DD and that it would only be a bit and the deal would be done. So I got a membership because they finally were offering a reasonable rate monthly. This whole scenario is why I am wary of paying all up front. All the while getting emails from LKN mentioning their 3 locations, "soon to be four." Then last week, as I was killing time before heading over to DD, I opened my email. Surprise! Nothing from them after that. Just forum speculation and not really informative FB posts.
Soo...I go over to LKN Saturday and the counter guy told me they were accomodating DD customers through that day. I inquired about memberships, etc. and signed up.. That's where I will stay for now. I don't know who orchestrated the goat rodeo all of them were participating in, but whoever was in charge made a lot of mistakes handling the PR part of the deal.
This whole thing over there at DD makes me feel better I pay monthly for my membership at PBR. When I signed up they gave me a choice of paying for 1 year up front and getting an extra month free, or paying monthly. I'm glad that I went with the monthly not that I personally know anything about the financial stability of the company.
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IrishCannon
Fight hard.
I liked that place. Super friendly staff and way better rules than PBR. Sad to see this.
What PBR just pulled reminds me of an Irish-American politician that just offed his opponent and showed up at the funeral with dinner for the neighborhood.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
What PBR just pulled reminds me of an Irish-American politician that just offed his opponent and showed up at the funeral with dinner for the neighborhood.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Lincoln Times ran a story on Monday. Pretty scandalous.
TripleO7
Well-Known Member
Checked their website. Couldn't find the story. Got a link or some other info?
Edit: OK, found a story from the 18th in the Lincoln Herald.
http://lincolnherald.net/main.asp?SectionID=3&SubSectionID=181&ArticleID=26239
Is this what you were talking about? No scandal there IMHO.
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You know, it impacts a lot of people when any business closes. That said, sometimes the business model isn't good, or just bad business owners, and it's doomed to fail at some point.
There's a BIG difference between a "hobby" business and one that makes $ to stay in business. Not saying that's the case here, but it might be.
I have two 'hobby businesses' and know enough that I don't want to take the next step.
There's a BIG difference between a "hobby" business and one that makes $ to stay in business. Not saying that's the case here, but it might be.
I have two 'hobby businesses' and know enough that I don't want to take the next step.
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https://www.lincolntimesnews.com/ne...cle_2b9a6794-5e91-11e8-9b37-53ca449df8d1.html
ATF, merchandise disappearing, ultimatums, etc
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Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
That site makes you log in to read the full article. You have a membership?
I get the corporeal paper because, you know, old. Essentially a big fight between mgmt and owners. Article paints mgmt as being in the wrong with specific mention of ATF agent saying "ain't never seen a Charlie Foxtrot this bad" or some such.
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Just want to step in and say as a random person off the road I used to drive an extra 15 miles to shoot at Denver Defense because of the way RSO's treated myself and my friends almost every time I went to PBR. Not to mention their pricing is absolutely ludicrous on retail stuff and they will not entertain any negotiation.
TripleO7
Well-Known Member
Most LGS suffer from "Faded Sticker Syndrome". The box has been around so long that the sticker fades. This is caused by what we have come to see as crazy pricing because we are spoiled by internet retailers and big box stores with their everyday low prices and free shipping offers.
I get it. They don't have the same buying power that the biggies have, etc. I always try to buy a few things here and there even though I know I can find it cheaper elsewhere. That's not always the case, but most of the time it is.
I've never bought a gun there because they are high on there prices. I'm not sure about the negotiation. But they do have a price matching policy if the other store has the gun in stock they will match it. It's right on their site
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TripleO7
Well-Known Member
My experience is no negotiation. I have purchased but because they were at the going rate when we all thought Hitlary was going to be president. I asked them to match a gun I could order from them on GungGenie that they had in stock. I’m glad they refused.
FatboyFlash
Senior Member
Apparently they are opening back up on Friday
Email just arrived:
Dear ,
This is my first shot at doing a Constant Contact but this is just too important to wait till Friday when Tasha gets back. I'm just so proud of all our employees, past and present who have stepped up to help us get open.
A big shout out to Point Blank Range for selling us ammunition at cost. We could not have done this with out your help.
Again a big shout out to HotWire for getting us up and running. No internet no range fans or A/C.
We were hurt and presumed dead but the people who did this to us didn't count on the enormous support we have in this community. I cant thank each of you enough. We are truly blessed to have such wonderful neighbors here in Lincoln County.
O Yea, I about forgot the most important thing...
We are open Friday from 10 am to 7 pm and lane fees are waived!
We are going to be closed on Memorial Day but other than that we are back!
Bud Cesena
General Manager
Denver Defense
It is like some sort of Telenovela without all the T&A! I would be interested in hearing what the ATF found and the impending (if any) fallout from that.
Damn_Yankee
"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time"
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
Supporting Member
PBR is a no go for me as well. I had a bad experience at a pistol class at the Mooresville location a few years ago. I created a thread on the Canadian site about it. It was before this forum existed. In short, the instructor was not very good. His lack of attentiveness led to an ND during the class with injuries resulting. He actually suggested going on with the class afterward to which the students said....Uummmm, no. PBR rescheduled the class but after some thought I requested a refund and have not been back since.
Recently, I was in the market for a set of NS for a Glock. PBR Mooresville had them in stock. I was willing to pay the extra price vs. online just to get them a bit sooner. I quickly changed my mind when I was informed that installation would be $40 extra...to install on a Glock! WTH! Isn't it common place that if you purchase sights form a LGS they will install at no charge?
Recently, I was in the market for a set of NS for a Glock. PBR Mooresville had them in stock. I was willing to pay the extra price vs. online just to get them a bit sooner. I quickly changed my mind when I was informed that installation would be $40 extra...to install on a Glock! WTH! Isn't it common place that if you purchase sights form a LGS they will install at no charge?
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For me, it's the fact they don't see the folks that walk in there as a customer and a person. They see them as another credit card swipe.
Inventory doesn't make you money sitting on the shelf. It makes money going out the door with a customer.
Why hold out six months for the sale of one or two that makes you a hundred bucks each on them when you could have sold six of them for fifty profit on each one in the same six months?
Someone above mentioned big box stores and their everyday low prices and relative buying power of the biggies and the littles.
I call horsefeathers on it.
When was the last time anybody walked into a Cabelas, Bass Pro, or Dunhams and the were competitively priced with any store not named Bass Pro, Dunhams, or Cabelas?
Short answer, they arent. Not even close, most times. If those stores truly had buying power over the littles, their prices should be a few percentage points lower than an LGS. But, theyre not. Because, they too, see you as a credit card swipe and not a customer or person.
As for the buying power/seeing folks as credit card swipes, let's take a look at three different LGS and compare them.
All three have relatively the same buying power, but view their cust9mers very differently.
Theres PBR.
LGS #1. A vendor here.
LGS #2. Located in a little town in the middle of nowhere as big as my living room. Only shop for 20+ miles around.
Don't remember the exact price, but PBR is about $40 higher on a G17 than LGS1 and about $30 higher than LGS2.
Shadow 2 at PBR sticker of $1319 +tax.
My out the door price from LGS2 was $250 cheaper. Didnt ask LGS1.
They have used guns sitting on their shelf that cost more than brand new at other LGS. Example: Used CZ75B Compact, well used, 75-80% condition, $489 +tax.
New from LGS1 $459.
New from LGS2 $479.
As bad as those are, here's the ones that should drive it home for you.
Ive had two LGS tell me about how Sig has discontinued several guns from its product line. Both of them also tell me that since at least Nov last year, Sig has been telling their distributors to push them out to FFLs at discounts. Some LGS are showing the love to their customers, some not.
Sig P220R .45 ACP, Desert Brown, Hogue grips, night sights.
LGS1: $659 +tax
LGS2: $679 +tax
PBR: on sale for $849. You save $150!!!
Sig P227R .45 ACP, FDE, E2, Night Sights
LGS1: $659 +tax
LGS2: $679 +tax
PBR: on sale for $849. You save $150!!!
Starting to notice a trend yet?
I get it, overhead is a little higher (who pits a commodity trading business not boat related on a lake where rent/property values/prices and everything else is outrageous) but my sell in volume example from up top still holds true. And if your business model calls for you to be $40 more than your competitor on a firearm found in Every. Single. Store. then maybe your model and how you view customers needs to be reevaluated.
Inventory doesn't make you money sitting on the shelf. It makes money going out the door with a customer.
Why hold out six months for the sale of one or two that makes you a hundred bucks each on them when you could have sold six of them for fifty profit on each one in the same six months?
Someone above mentioned big box stores and their everyday low prices and relative buying power of the biggies and the littles.
I call horsefeathers on it.
When was the last time anybody walked into a Cabelas, Bass Pro, or Dunhams and the were competitively priced with any store not named Bass Pro, Dunhams, or Cabelas?
Short answer, they arent. Not even close, most times. If those stores truly had buying power over the littles, their prices should be a few percentage points lower than an LGS. But, theyre not. Because, they too, see you as a credit card swipe and not a customer or person.
As for the buying power/seeing folks as credit card swipes, let's take a look at three different LGS and compare them.
All three have relatively the same buying power, but view their cust9mers very differently.
Theres PBR.
LGS #1. A vendor here.
LGS #2. Located in a little town in the middle of nowhere as big as my living room. Only shop for 20+ miles around.
Don't remember the exact price, but PBR is about $40 higher on a G17 than LGS1 and about $30 higher than LGS2.
Shadow 2 at PBR sticker of $1319 +tax.
My out the door price from LGS2 was $250 cheaper. Didnt ask LGS1.
They have used guns sitting on their shelf that cost more than brand new at other LGS. Example: Used CZ75B Compact, well used, 75-80% condition, $489 +tax.
New from LGS1 $459.
New from LGS2 $479.
As bad as those are, here's the ones that should drive it home for you.
Ive had two LGS tell me about how Sig has discontinued several guns from its product line. Both of them also tell me that since at least Nov last year, Sig has been telling their distributors to push them out to FFLs at discounts. Some LGS are showing the love to their customers, some not.
Sig P220R .45 ACP, Desert Brown, Hogue grips, night sights.
LGS1: $659 +tax
LGS2: $679 +tax
PBR: on sale for $849. You save $150!!!
Sig P227R .45 ACP, FDE, E2, Night Sights
LGS1: $659 +tax
LGS2: $679 +tax
PBR: on sale for $849. You save $150!!!
Starting to notice a trend yet?
I get it, overhead is a little higher (who pits a commodity trading business not boat related on a lake where rent/property values/prices and everything else is outrageous) but my sell in volume example from up top still holds true. And if your business model calls for you to be $40 more than your competitor on a firearm found in Every. Single. Store. then maybe your model and how you view customers needs to be reevaluated.
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So anyone want to do an impromptu CFF Meetup tomorrow for lunch then DD just to take a look/see the miraculous recovery?
I can't be there right at 9 am as the exterminator/termite inspection is tomorrow at that time....but lunch Meetup and a look should be easy enough if there's interest....
I can't be there right at 9 am as the exterminator/termite inspection is tomorrow at that time....but lunch Meetup and a look should be easy enough if there's interest....
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Damn_Yankee
"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time"
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
Supporting Member
Not sure about the taste left in the mouths of members and locals but it might be prudent to at least visit and give the business a chance. There is always “the rest of the story” and losing any firearms business is not a good thing much less one that might have a chance to take a turn for the better.
Now that being said I wouldn’t buy a year membership, order anything with a longer lead time requiring a deposit or other risk of financial loss for the near future but going in and having a little range time (even though I really don’t care for indoor ranges ... ) wouldn’t really hurt anything. There are far to few gun related businesses as it is.
Now that being said I wouldn’t buy a year membership, order anything with a longer lead time requiring a deposit or other risk of financial loss for the near future but going in and having a little range time (even though I really don’t care for indoor ranges ... ) wouldn’t really hurt anything. There are far to few gun related businesses as it is.
Now what makes you think Im going to tell her you said a damn thing?
Soil my reputation by admitting I know you?
I think not, goofball
Yup
Now what makes you think Im going to tell her you said a damn thing?
Soil my reputation by admitting I know you?
I think not, goofball
Naw, it'll be good...she would laugh about it.
She was at a match with me and FatboyFlash a couple summers ago. One stage had a sitting in a metal chair start position. The chair being in the direct sun all day was quite warm when we got to it. Her turn, she plops down all eager to get the stage going and came out of it faster that anyting I have ever seen.
Course me with out a filter blurts out, Welp if you weren't wearing denim panties ( they were some shorter than daisy dukes style shorts) that wouldnt happen.
So she carried that moniker with pride that summer
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I intend to have Mexican for lunch at Mazatlan a stone's throw away around noon tomorrow, then visit DD and maybe do a little shooting since lane fees are supposedly waived.
If anyone cares to join, I'm planning on wearing my black CFF t-shirt.
If anyone cares to join, I'm planning on wearing my black CFF t-shirt.
Damn_Yankee
"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time"
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
Supporting Member
Damn_Yankee
"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time"
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
Supporting Member
It's great with rice and beans, and tortillas. Makes a sort of burrito.
It's a lot though - so if you're not ravenously hungry, they have a pollo a la espinaca quesesilla that's a great lunch size and tastes about the same.