40 S&W caliber pistols

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For years the 40 S&W round was the greatest thing since sliced bread to the law enforcement and private communities. That put the lowly 9 mm on the back burner.But lately there has been a reversal back to the 9 mm and the demise of the 40 S&W round. I personally have never cared for it. Nothing needed between the 9mm and the 45. I know there is the classic 38 Super and the 357 Sig in there but as far as everyday shooters fo we really need the 40 caliber . I see a lot of 40 caliber pistols for sale and not sold for what the sellers have invested. A lot of the 40 caliber owners love the and many dislike them. I have several 40S&W handguns and no plans to get rid of them but just thinking why the downside of the round is happening so rapidly it makes me wonder.Two local PD agentcies have recently given up the 45 acp and the 40 S&W and chose to go back to the 9mm both department are using the 147 grain jhp rounds. One chose Glock 17 and the other the S&W M&P 2.0
 
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Never considered it before. But then got into it for competition, where it is required to make a higher power factor, and 9mm is not allowed to in the rules. (USPSA Limited Major).

Found it to be a very flexible round for reloaders and very fun and challenging to shoot, and can be loaded very light to very stiff. So, for that reason it is a useful and effective round.

As far as self defense or "combat" or something like that: I certainly wouldn't want to get shot with a 135 gr hollow point going 1400fps!
But IMO, it's a more difficult cartridge to handle and probably 9mm is best for most. I carry 9mm personally.
 
Because there is basically no advantage to using .40 over 9mm with modern ammo designs so it makes sense to use a caliber that has less recoil, is easier to shoot and has a higher capacity.
 
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As far as self defense or "combat" or something like that: I certainly wouldn't want to get shot with a 135 gr hollow point going 1,400fps!
After backyard testing of 9, 40 and 45 rounds decades ago, the high speed 135g & 155g 40's were a lot more dramatic, did a lot more damage, and moved a lot more water in 5 gal buckets after passing through denim. There was no comparison.
They've been my carry rounds since.
 
Cause The FBI did it.
Sheep-Sheep-Everywhere.jpg
 
Because there is basically no advantage to using .40 over 9mm with modern ammo designs so it makes sense to use a caliber that has less recoil, is easier to shoot and has a higher capacity.
Repeating the mantra doesn't make it true. You can choose to ignore a significant difference in foot pounds of energy but physics says different.
 
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After backyard testing of 9, 40 and 45 rounds decades ago, the high speed 135g & 155g 40's were a lot more dramatic, did a lot more damage, and moved a lot more water in 5 gal buckets after passing through denim. There was no comparison.
They've been my carry rounds since.
Personally I love the round. I happen to shoot it well. I look at the current situation as I do when at the Thanksgiving meal there are others that don't like scalloped oysters. More for me.

40 isn't dying but there is a definite move away from it to 9 mm for law enforcement due to primarily two factors. One, it's a heck of a lot less expensive, two, it's easier for "more diverse" officers to handle. The combination of those two aspects make it almost irresistible to administrators.

Not to say 9mm doesn't have some advantages, primarily capacity. Some high-speed low-drag outfits choose it specifically for that reason.
 
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I got my M&P in .40 used police trade, like it, snapped up a Px4 from another forum member, almost NIB with four mags,
then a Glock 22 to SBR for my Micro Roni, (SBR done). Traded a case of 9mm Blazer Brass for 1,500 .40S&W.
Good deals out there.
 
I got my M&P in .40 used police trade, like it, snapped up a Px4 from another forum member, almost NIB with four mags,
then a Glock 22 to SBR for my Micro Roni, (SBR done). Traded a case of 9mm Blazer Brass for 1,500 .40S&W.
Good deals out there.
I really want to try the PX4. I have a CX4 but I never liked the 96 as a companion piece. It would be cool to have an interchangeable platform.
 
Cause The FBI did it.
Sheep-Sheep-Everywhere.jpg

I would agree. There aren't too many organizations as inept as public organizations. Including law enforcement and even the military. Just because some bureaucrats make a decision doesn't mean it is right. Especially for one of us. There are probably a ton of totally useless reasons why equipment gets changed. Effectiveness may be way down the list.
 
Personally I love the round. I happen to shoot it well. I look at the current situation as I do when at the Thanksgiving meal there are others that don't like scalloped oysters. More for me.

40 isn't dying but there is a definite move away from it to 9 mm for law enforcement due to primarily two factors. One, it's a heck of a lot less expensive, two, it's easier for "more diverse" officers to handle. The combination of those two aspects make it almost irresistible to administrators.

Not to say 9mm doesn't have some advantages, primarily capacity. Some high-speed low-drag outfits choose it specifically for that reason.
Something I forgot to mention, there is always the recoil issue (speed of follow up shots) vs energy / damage factor. I think a big part of the thinking in 9mm's favor is more rounds faster on target gives more chances of hitting one of the instant off buttons, and that can't be ignored. But you have to draw the line somewhere, or we'd all be carrying 22lr and be able to shoot 3x faster with great accuracy. Heck, why not? Those little buggers can penetrate pretty good. :D

I actually wouldn't feel terribly outgunned if all I had was my PMR-30 with a full mag.

It's fun to debate this stuff, but I think we all agree that way more important is just having any gun accessible and the skill and mindset to use it.
 
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Repeating the mantra doesn't make it true. You can choose to ignore a significant difference in foot pounds of energy but physics says different.

People that actually get shot seem to ignore the "significant" difference in foot pounds also.
 
After backyard testing of 9, 40 and 45 rounds decades ago, the high speed 135g & 155g 40's were a lot more dramatic, did a lot more damage, and moved a lot more water in 5 gal buckets after passing through denim. There was no comparison.
They've been my carry rounds since.

Note your first sentence started with decades ago. Would it be conceivable 9mm ammo has evolved during those decades since your test? IF so, would it make sense to redo your test with modern ammo?

People that actually get shot seem to ignore the "significant" difference in foot pounds also.

Friend who got shot by robbers at his house said he did notice the difference between 9mm and 45.
 
Note your first sentence started with decades ago. Would it be conceivable 9mm ammo has evolved during those decades since your test? IF so, would it make sense to redo your test with modern ammo?
Quite possibly, that’s why I included that comment. The Win 155g Silvertip and Cor-Bon 135g caused the buckets to jump 2’ up, and split in half from the botttom to the rim for the lid. All the other 9, 40 & 45 rounds just made holes and weren’t nearly as dramatic. It was just a backyard test of about ten rounds of 6-8 types of SD ammo in three calibers. I was convinced to sell my 45 and buy the 40. If I had access to a 10mm at the time, I’d probably own three of them instead of 40’s.
 
Would it be conceivable 9mm ammo has evolved during those decades since your test?

Well.. so has 40 and 45.
And 38 and 25 and 32 and 41 and 44 and 357 and 10mm and..

The argument that 9mm can 'wound more' than it used to while the 40 and 45 can't, is myopic. 40 and 45 did not just stand by and remain LRN while 9mm reached the heavens. If 9mm gained five horsepower so did the 40 and 45.

The playing field is the same as it's always been, just different.
 
Well.. so has 40 and 45.
And 38 and 25 and 32 and 41 and 44 and 357 and 10mm and..

The argument that 9mm can 'wound more' than it used to while the 40 and 45 can't, is myopic. 40 and 45 did not just stand by and remain LRN while 9mm reached the heavens. If 9mm gained five horsepower so did the 40 and 45.

The playing field is the same as it's always been, just different.
Yep, it's not like they have "special" bullets just for 9mm, but I swear a lot of people sound like they think that.
 
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I like .40 because, well, I just like it. It makes sense to me and I like the range of handloading options it offers. I love the fact that other people hate it, because guns, mags, brass, and ammo are more readily available and sometimes on fire sale.
I don’t think there is a thing wrong with 9mm either, I just prefer a .40 for general purpose.
Why is it that a handful of folks seem to have to hate one in order to like the other?
 
Why is it that a handful of folks seem to have to hate one in order to like the other?
Indubitably!
I'm just the opposite, I can understand long-barrel/short barrel/single stack/double stack etc. arguments for carry options of the same caliber. But why consolidate everything into one caliber? Some of the 45 and 9 guys are hardcore about this, that's all they do.
My favorites for carry- S&W 19-5/357...M&P40...G23...PPQ9...Judge...LC9...LCP...and soon a new 45acp double stack plastic. That's seven different calibers, and the Judge holds two different kinds at the same time.
I have nice carry holsters for others too, like 1911's and my G41. But 1911's and me don't carry well together, and the G41 is the size of a 4x4. (although it does holster nicely)
I've always hated one size fits all stuff. Yeah it might can do it all, but it never does all of it well.
 
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For a number of years, I tried .40 guns and never shot them well. (The one exception was a CZ-40B that I foolishly traded away.) Over the past several years I had a S&W M&P PRO in .40 and a Glock 35, both tricked out with all sort of competition upgrades (done before I traded into them), and I couldn't shoot any of them worth crap. (That included a CZ-75B in .40, several SIG 226s, several 3rd Gen. S&W 40s, including one tuned by Cylinder & Slide.)

I have since found several .40s that shoot well in my hand, including an FNS-40, and FNS-40L, and a Glock 37 (.45 GAP) for which I got a .40 Conversion barrel and an APEX trigger system upgrade. (I have an Glock 38, too, and both the 37 and 38 were gotten at such low prices, I can afford to upgrade them.) I like all three of my current .40s, and it's renewed my interest in .40. But that doens't mean I've quit shooting 9mm or .45s. When I carry, which isn't all that often, it's generally a compact 9 or the Glock 38 (which is a Glock 19-sized gun that shoots .45 GAP.) I don't have a compact .40.
 
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According to Stopping Power website. As of Nov 1, 2018 the .40 is still used by more State Police Agencies than any other caliber.
24 states still using 40. The rest all over the board. .357 Sig, .45 acp, 9mm.
Just thought I'd add..out of the 140+handguns on the Battery Oaks Range, there are no .40s. Personally I believe it is a fine fighting caliber. I just don't currently own one. The State agencies must still be having good luck with them.
 
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I like .40 because, well, I just like it. It makes sense to me and I like the range of handloading options it offers. I love the fact that other people hate it, because guns, mags, brass, and ammo are more readily available and sometimes on fire sale.
I don’t think there is a thing wrong with 9mm either, I just prefer a .40 for general purpose.
Why is it that a handful of folks seem to have to hate one in order to like the other?

That is exactly why I consider picking up a 40 about once a month. I'll see a 9mm for something like $670. And the 40 in the same gun will cost $520. It is maddening. Someday I'll just go ahead and hit the buy button.
 
As the original poster in this thread I will add that i'm not a hater of the 40. It's just not my favorite caliber . I will say that of all my handguns,and I have a decent collection, The pistol that I shoot the best is a Gen 3 Glock 23c. I can't shoot any of my Glocks as well as the 23c. No it is not stock,it has a lightning strike comlete trigger in it and has all the internals polished and has a 3 pound connector. Can't shoot any other of my 40 caliber guns as well. I think that the older I get the better I like the lower recoil of the 9mm and the more economical price of the 9mm.Arthritis is a bitch.The snap of the 40 is just rough on my old joints☹️
 
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