Arizona police body cam shows boy, 14, fleeing before being shot by cop

In order to have this you would also have to pass legislation that no one could sue a department either.

Would that be an option?

Anybody can sue anybody...but if you give the officers immunity then naturally people are going to sue the department.

I am all for reform on some of these outrageous court awards of taxpayer money though.
 
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Article said that bad guy stole the airsoft from the truck.

Sorry, but guy running with a handgun, I find it hard to say that the officer shouldn’t shoot just because a bad guy is running away. Is bad guy “safe” until he gets to cover and pops off a few rounds, then he’s safe again as he runs to the next corner?

For most of us we only have to worry about the person being a risk to us, so guy runs away we’re done, but the officer has to worry about the guy being a risk to anyone. I’m inclined to cut him some slack on this one.

He wasn't committing a violent felony, retreating from a gun fight in progress, moving to a position of advantage, or even engaging the officer in any way..he was clearly running away in the middle of an alley. Once he pops off the first rounds or even makes an effort to do so he is open game until apprehended.

Cop never yelled "stop"or "police" but rather "let me see your hands" in a rather timid voice and then immediately opened fire.

I am not inclined to give cops the slack to just gun down anyone who might be a risk to someone.
 
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anyone who might be a risk to someone.
I don’t think that an unknown criminal running with a handgun is the same as this, but I see your point. I don’t want an officer to be able to shoot at me or anyone else with impunity just because I/they happen to be carrying and running, perhaps even appearing to be running away from the scene of a crime. Anyway, it’s more a gray area to me when the officer observes the crime and the criminal has drawn his gun, maybe not for others.
 
I don’t think that an unknown criminal running with a handgun is the same as this, but I see your point. I don’t want an officer to be able to shoot at me or anyone else with impunity just because I/they happen to be carrying and running, perhaps even appearing to be running away from the scene of a crime. Anyway, it’s more a gray area to me when the officer observes the crime and the criminal has drawn his gun, maybe not for others.

And I am not saying your opinion is wrong...in many ways I can see the benefit in just gunning down the bad guys. But I do know that at one time (I haven't done this work in a while) you needed far more justification and had to put in more effort before you just started shooting people in the back.

What we do know is that a kid who never attempted to fight in this encounter received the death penalty for stealing an airsoft gun. Kid could turn out to be a career thug wannabe, I have no idea.

But, my worry is, what if next time it is a guy in his own truck handling/wearing a gun that the cop stalks up on and instead of running he is simply startled or not completely aware of the cop. "Let me see your hands" BANG.

This stuff happens too often these days in my opinion.
 
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Except he said it after he shot him. in the body cam footage, the kid never turns around or points anything at cop.

Do you really think he’s going to key the mike and say it before he shoots? And since the lapel camera is lower than the eyes, its hard to tell what the officer saw. And I sure can’t make out as much on a video as I can in person. Armed person jumps from a truck and runs, call me not surprised it didn’t end well for them.


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Do you really think he’s going to key the mike and say it before he shoots? And since the lapel camera is lower than the eyes, its hard to tell what the officer saw. And I sure can’t make out as much on a video as I can in person. Armed person jumps from a truck and runs, call me not surprised it didn’t end well for them.


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Yes, I expect the cops to key the mike and up date dispatch. We, seem to keep forgetting the police are not an offensive unit.
 
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When I go to that page the chart is blocked out but if it is based on the Washington post survey (or any survey)....I wonder how likely it is that people these days are going to tell newspapers/doctors/etc they have guns.
 
So one of his shot hit the guy in the back. Where did second bullet go? It says "hit a wall" in story, but all I saw were privacy fences in the area that he was shooting in. He may have gotten lucky by not hitting someone in their back yard.
 
I am from Arizona, and they have no problem prosecuting LE for bad shoots. There is a lot of pressure to indict him and let it play out in the courts. I would put money on him getting indicted.
 
And I am not saying your opinion is wrong...in many ways I can see the benefit in just gunning down the bad guys. But I do know that at one time (I haven't done this work in a while) you needed far more justification and had to put in more effort before you just started shooting people in the back.

What we do know is that a kid who never attempted to fight in this encounter received the death penalty for stealing an airsoft gun. Kid could turn out to be a career thug wannabe, I have no idea.

But, my worry is, what if next time it is a guy in his own truck handling/wearing a gun that the cop stalks up on and instead of running he is simply startled or not completely aware of the cop. "Let me see your hands" BANG.

This stuff happens too often these days in my opinion.
If you stick around here for a while you’ll find that I am not a “gun them down” person, the police serve one purpose, the courts another.

We don’t really know what the officer saw, it could well be that the kid was super dumb. Thought that he pulled a pistol from the truck and brought it up in front of him before turning to run.

About this stuff happening too often, I spend more of my time worrying about how innocent people are affected by police mistakes rather than if a criminals effective punishment was too sudden and too severe. They are all mistakes and require correction, but it’s hard to get worked up emotionally for a criminal vs the guy that was incorrectly served a no knock warrant and killed in the process. I’d also love to see real statistics on police interactions, I think that the error rate is exceedingly low, but because we are generally more aware of each mistake it seems that the rate is increasing when it is not. This perception bias is easy to document in violent crime, but I haven’t seen statistics that are verified for police encounters.
 
Really??? The 14 year old, breaking into trucks, carrying an air soft that looks like a real gun and fleeing from an officer, Really???

"child of 14-years-old who doesn't know the difference of what's good and what's bad because he hasn't lived long enough," Arce’s parents said at the vigil.
Doesn't know the difference.... BS.....
Yup. Parents probably set the example for the kid whether stealing from the government, stealing music or videos, teaching the kids that whatever they can take is theirs.
 
If you stick around here for a while you’ll find that I am not a “gun them down” person, the police serve one purpose, the courts another.

We don’t really know what the officer saw, it could well be that the kid was super dumb. Thought that he pulled a pistol from the truck and brought it up in front of him before turning to run.

About this stuff happening too often, I spend more of my time worrying about how innocent people are affected by police mistakes rather than if a criminals effective punishment was too sudden and too severe. They are all mistakes and require correction, but it’s hard to get worked up emotionally for a criminal vs the guy that was incorrectly served a no knock warrant and killed in the process. I’d also love to see real statistics on police interactions, I think that the error rate is exceedingly low, but because we are generally more aware of each mistake it seems that the rate is increasing when it is not. This perception bias is easy to document in violent crime, but I haven’t seen statistics that are verified for police encounters.

Which is why I mentioned a person innocently possessing a gun in /around their own vehicle. There are numerous cases of people simply possessing guns being shot by police either through their own over zealousness, mistaken identity, mistaken address, their disdain/fear of common citizens owning guns or dogs for that matter. To clarify, cops are trigger happy too often in my opinion...I am not on a crusade here for criminal rights. I am however very familiar with deadly force policy and while the system is on his side, that video may prove difficult for that cop.

Just because we can distinguish the shady character in this story doesn't mean you are going to get benefit of the doubt if you are the guy spotted with a gun and that should be a concern to all of us.
 
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My biggest question from this whole thing ...

Why was he hiding behind a plastic garbage can if it was a real gun?
Instinct. Something is there. Get behind it. May be somewhat effective against an SD round. Tougher than denim.

IDK. Who knows what he saw? Who knows what information he was given? Could be a scumbag cop. Could be trigger happy. Could be justified. Let's wait and see.
 
It was much, much less often. But again people had less guns as well on their person.

Probably happened at a higher rate you just didn't hear about it. Just like autism before the late 90's some people were just odd, now a days everyone falls on the autism spectrum. Back in the day it was mostly under reported as a police shooting that was justified.
 
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Yes, I expect the cops to key the mike and up date dispatch. We, seem to keep forgetting the police are not an offensive unit.


I don't. And I don't expect people to call 911 before using deadly force if they deem it necessary either.

And he was responding to a call. That's not offensive, it's his job.

I am willing to hang scum bag cops out to dry as much as anyone. But this is just not that clear cut. Suspect was armed. That changes everything. If the gun had been real and he started cracking off shots behind him, cops have been shot like that too. LA had a huge problem with that for a while, and a lot of cops got blamed for "shooting people in the back" because they could shoot and turn to run before the officer responded. The big question here is what the officer could see behind the truck. Could he see the kid turning towards him there? Because he saw a firearm at some point that the cam does not seem to pick up.
 
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I don't. And I don't expect people to call 911 before using deadly force if they deem it necessary either.

And he was responding to a call. That's not offensive, it's his job.

I am willing to hang scum bag cops out to dry as much as anyone. But this is just not that clear cut. Suspect was armed. That changes everything. If the gun had been real and he started cracking off shots behind him, cops have been shot like that too. LA had a huge problem with that for a while, and a lot of cops got blamed for "shooting people in the back" because they could shoot and turn to run before the officer responded. The big question here is what the officer could see behind the truck. Could he see the kid turning towards him there? Because he saw a firearm at some point that the cam does not seem to pick up.
One of my teachers acted that out as Bang Bang, spins around, My back is turned, you can't shoot me! spins back around, Bang Bang!
 
One of my teachers acted that out as Bang Bang, spins around, My back is turned, you can't shoot me! spins back around, Bang Bang!

I'm gonna shoot you in the back, so yes I can shoot you. :p The studies are out there. Most people can't not shoot a someone in the back that does that, just not fast enough to get to them while they are facing, if they are even facing them all the way. Which makes an armed suspect dangerous until they are out of sight and gone. Which makes this type of encounter problematic for anyone involved.
 
I'm gonna shoot you in the back, so yes I can shoot you. :p The studies are out there. Most people can't not shoot a someone in the back that does that, just not fast enough to get to them while they are facing, if they are even facing them all the way. Which makes an armed suspect dangerous until they are out of sight and gone. Which makes this type of encounter problematic for anyone involved.

50 second mark.
 
I'm curious. How many people who posted on this thread have ever been "on the job" and out on the street, not a primarily investigative job but a street cop? Not trying to start a war, just curious.
 
I'm curious. How many people who posted on this thread have ever been "on the job" and out on the street, not a primarily investigative job but a street cop? Not trying to start a war, just curious.

Probably none of them.
 
I think the issue is that if I were to walk out to my car, see someone rifling around it in, yell “Hey!” And the person started running like crazy away from me I would have to let him go. Even if I see a gun and shoot him from that distance with him fleeing I will have to face possible charges as it’s difficult to stand ones ground against someone fleeing and proving being in fear of my life is much more difficult with the person is running away and my shot is that far.


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This is exactly it for me.
 
Well if I done let fly with lead, I am going to tell folks" I saw a gun!!"

Kinda like yelling "Stop resisting! Stop resisting!" as 5 or 10 cops are beating an unconscious man that was just ejected from a car after a Chase?
 
I am from Arizona, and they have no problem prosecuting LE for bad shoots. There is a lot of pressure to indict him and let it play out in the courts. I would put money on him getting indicted.

Isn't that the advice always given to the lowly citizen? Let it play out in court?
 
I am willing to hang scum bag cops out to dry as much as anyone. But this is just not that clear cut. Suspect was armed. That changes everything. If the gun had been real and he started cracking off shots behind him, cops have been shot like that too. LA had a huge problem with that for a while, and a lot of cops got blamed for "shooting people in the back" because they could shoot and turn to run before the officer responded. The big question here is what the officer could see behind the truck. Could he see the kid turning towards him there? Because he saw a firearm at some point that the cam does not seem to pick up.

We can view the video of the cop, and at no point does the kid turn around, at no point is a gun (toy or not visible).

This is just more of the police being too scared to do their job properly.
 
If I read that correctly...odd that they have to put the owner of the truck in cuffs and search his house...
 
If I read that correctly...odd that they have to put the owner of the truck in cuffs and search his house...

Yeah that's messed up. The other part I found weird.

**He said Arce was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

"If he didn't call that 911 call, that young boy would still be alive today," Silvas told The Arizona Republic. "But I would be out a cellphone — because that's all he took outside of my truck was a cellphone."**

I mean does the guy that got shot have no burden for his own consequences?
As far as the officer I think it's a bad shoot.
 
I think the issue is that if I were to walk out to my car, see someone rifling around it in, yell “Hey!” And the person started running like crazy away from me I would have to let him go. Even if I see a gun and shoot him from that distance with him fleeing I will have to face possible charges as it’s difficult to stand ones ground against someone fleeing and proving being in fear of my life is much more difficult with the person is running away and my shot is that far.

Exactly. Let's forget for a minute that a cop shot a fleeing teenager when he saw him stealing from a truck and then run in the opposite direction carrying a firearm, fake or real. Now let's just replace that cop with yourself. What do you think would happen if you shot and killed a fleeing teenager, who even had a real gun, and there was video evidence that the armed teenager never turned around towards you and point his gun? Do you think you'd walk without charges?

Some may argue that in this case, by shooting and stopping the teenager, the officer potentially saved other lives had the teenager been armed with a real firearm and managed to get away. I don't disagree with that argument. What I do disagree with is the fact that this argument doesn't apply to you and me. It only applies to law enforcement.

That's a problem and always will be as long as the law regarding the use of firearms is written, interpreted, and enforced differently for folks in law enforcement vs. those not in law enforcement.
 
1: If the cop saw a gun when he exited the truck, regardless if toy or not he has a case.

I wonder if any of us on here would have a case if we saw an armed person, even in our driveway on our property, exit a vehicle that belongs to us while brandishing a real firearm, and then starts running away in the opposite direction and we shoot and kill that armed individual before he reaches the end of our driveway?
 
I wonder if any of us on here would have a case if we saw an armed person, even in our driveway on our property, exit a vehicle that belongs to us while brandishing a real firearm, and then starts running away in the opposite direction and we shoot and kill that armed individual before he reaches the end of our driveway?
When it becomes your job to confront criminals I'm sure that you will get the benefit of the doubt, until then your comparison is flawed.
 
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