Guide to NFA forms

FWIW...

I've recommended more times than I can count that you can roll your own prints and take your own photos, thus making 41F not really that much of a hassle. But, I'd never actually done it myself...until this week. I'd filed a few post-41F forms, but they were all F4s and the dealer I use handles digital prints and photos (not using the SS kiosk). Four of the forms were filed in Jan, and I opted to do them as an individual.

About 1.5 months ago SiCo started the BOGO deal and I opted for a Maxim 9 on day one. After shopping around for a bit, I decided to start a new trust for a handful of items. The Maxim got filed that way, and the freebie will as well whenever it shows up. Then a week or so ago I thought about withdrawing at least some of the forms filed in Jan and refile using the trust...instead of paying another $200/ea. I have plenty of cans, so the additional wait wouldn't really matter. I called the ATF on 7/27 and wouldn't you know one was approved 7/21 and the other three on 7/24. So, I still had the option to cancel the stamps before the 4473 was done.

I chose to go ahead and grab two of the four, and void the other two. I've wasted $200 on dumber stuff through the years, so I decided to go ahead and transfer one of the two I grabbed from me as an individual to my new trust. The wait wouldn't matter since I would be in possession of them as both the transferor and transferee. Ordered a inkless fingerprint pad (~$7) and a card holder off Amazon on Tuesday, and the pad showed up Thursday. I ended up rolling prints Friday morning before the card holder even showed up. (Already had blank cards on hand). I think it might have taken longer to make sure I was filling out the cards correctly as it did to do prints for four cards.

I used the passport booth (free) app to take my photo, and then printed them out at home on regular paper. Used clear packing tape to put them on the forms. The forms fold a lot easier with plain paper photos than they do with photo paper. I'd grabbed a complete FD-258LE from my dealer just so I'd have a sample to compare mine to...and I definitely think mine are clearer than the ones he did...and I was 4/4 using his so far.

TL/DR: I say all that to say this:

Spend the $7 and get an ink pad. Spend a little more if you want the card holder. Take your own photos. If you don't have a printer, you can still take your own and get six photos on a single 4x6 print for <50¢ from your local Walmart, CVS, etc. Don't let the "hassle" of 41F prints and photos be the reason you don't get into the NFA game, or continue to play if you're already there.

BW, I had a F4 approved this year. It had prints. Will I need to submit another set if I do an online F1?

JohnFreeman said:

BW, I had a F4 approved this year. It had prints. Will I need to submit another set if I do an online F1?

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Prints and photos with every submission.

If you're thinking about the 24-month exemption, that's for supporting documentation for an entity only...so you could save on printing/mailing a new copy of a trust/corp. Not really a major time-saver.

BigWaylon said:

Prints and photos with every submission.

If you're thinking about the 24-month exemption, that's for supporting documentation for an entity only...so you could save on printing/mailing a new copy of a trust/corp. Not really a major time-saver.

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This doesn't make any sense at all, so it must be right!

Wonder if I can peel the photo off my last F4 and stick it on the new F1 app

JohnFreeman said:

This doesn't make any sense at all, so it must be right!

Wonder if I can peel the photo off my last F4 and stick it on the new F1 app

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If you're doing EForms, take a selfie with your phone/tablet.

If you're doing paper (and not sure why you would), do the same thing. Then print it on regular paper and tape it to the form with clear packing tape. That's all I do. I use Passport Booth app so it lines me up correctly and is a square 2"x2" style.

No, I'll do Eforms. I want to SBR a Papoose to use as a (shorter) suppressor host.

I'll have to read up on the DIY prints done digitally. I could take a selfie of my already approved passport photo and see if that works.

Thanks!

JohnFreeman said:

I'll have to read up on the DIY prints done digitally. I could take a selfie of my already approved passport photo and see if that works.

Thanks!

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You have to mail in actual FP cards. You get a cover sheet after you submit. Get free cards from ATF and roll your own.

Just take a selfie or have someone take your pic. Use the "square" setting on the smartphone or tablet. I don't think that's even a requirement, but you could do it.

Here's a conundrum... I have a profile that I used back in 2016. I was able to update the address since I moved. However, it will not let me update my county. Should I sign up for another account or call them Monday to see if they can fix it for me?

EDIT

It appears that the county is controlled by the zip code. My town is divided by two counties. The eforms only has one county listed for my zipcode.

amnesia said:

Here's a conundrum... I have a profile that I used back in 2016. I was able to update the address since I moved. However, it will not let me update my county. Should I sign up for another account or call them Monday to see if they can fix it for me?

EDIT

It appears that the county is controlled by the zip code. My town is divided by two counties. The eforms only has one county listed for my zipcode.

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It's a non-issue. Just take whatever it gives. I had a note about it in my old EForms guide:

ETA 1/21/16: This is not new information, I've just never taken the time to add a note until now. There is a known defect in eForms that when you enter your ZIP, you sometimes cannot choose your correct county. This is mainly in situations where the ZIP spans multiple counties. It's a non-issue as far as approvals go. Simply enter your ZIP, select the City, then take whatever County it gives you. Many users have questioned the ATF on this issue, and here's one of the responses:

We are aware of the glitch regarding the county and do not have the funding to address at the present time. Submit with the incorrect county and this will not impact the processing of the application in this instance.

Learned a trick yesterday and tested it out this morning. You can create a stamp in the free version of Adobe Reader. So, you need to get your pic in a PDF format, which I did by printing to PDF instead of a printer. (Other versions of Adobe will let you use .jpg and other formats).

Once you have that done, you simply apply the stamp to your form, size it and align it where it needs to be. This lets you print your pic directly on the form. Photo paper is not required, and there’s actually not even a requirement the pic is in color.

Here’s what it looks like on my screen once the stamp is in place:



And here’s what it looks like printed:



I’d assume you could do the same thing with your signature, but I haven’t tried it. I believe there’s an opaqueness setting which would help. That way you wouldn’t have to print, sign, scan, upload, and then attach the 5320.23 in EForms. You could just fill out the form, save as PDF, and upload.

Real simple to do, but should save some time and just make things easier.

My question is regarding a F4 as an individual on the revised forms dated Nov 2018, one is now marked ATF Copy and the other ATF Copy 2 - To Be Returned to Registrant, both labeled SUMBIT in DUPLICATE.

Please tell me I don't actually need to fill out 2 of each of these and attach a photo to each for a total of 4 photo's and 4 forms.

Clicker said:

My question is regarding a F4 as an individual on the revised forms dated Nov 2018, one is now marked ATF Copy and the other ATF Copy 2 - To Be Returned to Registrant, both labeled SUMBIT in DUPLICATE.

Please tell me I don't actually need to fill out 2 of each of these and attach a photo to each for a total of 4 photo's and 4 forms.

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Two copies to ATF, one to CLEO. Pages are labeled, but I know one dealer that just prints the first one and makes two copies...so the labels don’t really matter.

...and they no longer need to be printed double-sided.

Ok... I have read everything in this thread. It's great info, but I still feel overwhelmed. I just want to buy my first suppressor. Then, I'll probably buy more of them in the future...

I recently walked into a LGS that sold suppressors. I asked the guy behind the counter, "How complicated is the process? "

He said it's easy... I bring money, pick out a suppressor, he takes my prints, we fill out the forms, he mails it all in, and then i come back to pick up my suppressor several months later.

Is it really that easy? If you guys are filling out forms at home and sending them in yourselves, there must be a good reason. Why wouldn't you just do it at the gun store and let them send in the paperwork?

My biggest question is: Do I really need to set up a trust? Can i just buy a suppressor as an individual? Why is it better to have or not have a trust?

Thanks everybody!

Alabamacoastie said:

Ok... I have read everything in this thread. It's great info, but I still feel overwhelmed. I just want to buy my first suppressor. Then, I'll probably buy more of them in the future...

I recently walked into a LGS that sold suppressors. I asked the guy behind the counter, "How complicated is the process? "

He said it's easy... I bring money, pick out a suppressor, he takes my prints, we fill out the forms, he mails it all in, and then i come back to pick up my suppressor several months later.

Is it really that easy? If you guys are filling out forms at home and sending them in yourselves, there must be a good reason. Why wouldn't you just do it at the gun store and let them send in the paperwork?

My biggest question is: Do I really need to set up a trust? Can i just buy a suppressor as an individual? Why is it better to have or not have a trust?

Thanks everybody!

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Yes, it’s that easy. If you find a dealer that does prints and photos, even better. But you can do both of those yourself if needed.

Most of us doing forms at home are filing F1s (to make new NFA Firearms) and not F4s (to transfer an existing NFA Firearm).

I’d still opt for a trust, even if it was for a single trustee. You have the benefit of being able to add others down the road if you want...or not. As an individual, you don’t have that option. There are also legal benefits and privacy considerations for your estate that the trust will win out over filing as an individual.

That being said, if you file as an individual...your items transfer tax-free (using a Form 5) when you die. They do not require a $200 stamp or have to be turn over to the ATF...regardless of what some “gun trust lawyer” website may try to make you believe.

Me. said:

@BigWaylon, When filling out the form, what do I fill out for "Description" in the new firearm section? I typed "short barreled rifle", but I feel they are looking for something different. This is for an AR style SBR.

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EForms?

It’s in the “old EForms guide” sticky...

That block is supposed to mimic 4h on a paper form.



I left it blank for most of mine. They reworded the paper form and want the info you'll engrave in the box. I checked my last two EForms and they’re both blank. That’s how it worked in the past...no matter what you input it doesn’t show on the form. They may be able to see it, though.

They’re not looking for Short Barreled Rifle. You covered that in the drop-down. You can put the registered owner (entity or individual) and the city, state if you want.