Roughly 30-40 years ago people were dealing with 70 and 80 series Colts, many built by fill in workers during the labor union strike. The problems with those guns are well known and documented.
1911 troubleshooting
- Thread starter Millie
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Roughly 30-40 years ago people were dealing with 70 and 80 series Colts, many built by fill in workers during the labor union strike. The problems with those guns are well known and documented.
And I was dealing with worn out abused military 1911s also butchered up guns prom people starting to fit parts or thinking that 1911s had drop in parts the manufacturers have come along way toward making accurate, reliable 1911s in all the calibers including 9mm and with the features that people want on them all at the most affordable prices we have ever had
I have no doubt
Many 1911s have been ruined by "gunsmithing" but I don't lump those into the same group as pistols that won't feed hollow points or have other reliability issues from the factory.
OP
I did post a pic in the handgun pics section when I got it, but I can write down what's on the box for you: M1911A A1 Rock Standard FS. Does that help?
I notice it also says "Made in the Philippines."
I'm pretty sure it's just the very basic 9mm.
OP
It's done perfectly for several days now, oddly enough. I gave it a 5 (?) box workout today, and it behaved well. I'm not ready to even send it back to RIA yet, much less sell it!
is this it https://armscor.com/firearms/ria/rock-series/rock-standard-fs-9mm/ if it is its what is called the tactical model it has a lot of upgrades from the GI model
georgel
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Also, better trigger, extended ambidextrous safety and better hammer. It's tacti-cool.
It's nice, I like it.
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So, you're basing your claims on badly built guns?
Roughly 30-40 years ago, I was actually a working gunsmith, specializing in addressing functional reliability problems with the 1911 pistol...mostly Colt and Springfield in those days...and I only ran into a small handful of guns that were built to spec that choked on good quality hollowpoints, assuming a proper magazine. Most of those were due to the factory offerings still having the original "Hardball" barrel ramps and were easily cured by simply opening them up to the AMU's profile for wadcutters.
The design can't be blamed for guns built so far out of spec that they wouldn't run reliably even on ball. The biggest single problem with the 1911 pistol is that many of the producers seem to be making it up as they go. They think that Browning's specifications are suggestions and that includes the magazine.
The next biggest problem is that so many people have been trying for so long to prove that they're smarter than ol' Mose, they really think that they have...often with predictable results.
The 1911 pistol was designed to function. As long as it's fed decent ammunition from a proper magazine, it will function. It's a machine. It doesn't have a choice.
Good to see you posting again!
Don't get too used to it, m'fren. I got involved with this one, but when it's done I'll melt back into the shadows.
OP
Update on the 9mm 1911: It seems to be doing ok now, with the occasional failure to extract a case, but I've shot a few hundred rounds in it the last week and I think it might be smoothing out. (It helps not to try to shoot the wrong ammo in it, also! Lol. I did that last week, getting some .380 mixed in with the 9mm in the gun case. Not good!)
I've decided to keep it for now, and just continue shooting it. Tony shot 50 rounds yesterday, and it went fine. I did 4 boxes today and 5 yesterday. Maybe it's just taking a while for the gun to break in. Not carrying it currently, can't trust it yet. The p238 has been very reliable, so it's on my belt all the time.
I've decided to keep it for now, and just continue shooting it. Tony shot 50 rounds yesterday, and it went fine. I did 4 boxes today and 5 yesterday. Maybe it's just taking a while for the gun to break in. Not carrying it currently, can't trust it yet. The p238 has been very reliable, so it's on my belt all the time.
It isn't a claim, it is a fact...1911s had the reputation of not being reliable with hollowpoints and rightly so. Most of the 1911s available 30-40 years ago (including what military issue 1911s were in circulation) did not feed hollowpoints or wadcutters but did function for the most part using 230 gr FMJ. This is well known among everyone who was using/working on 1911s back then. The Colt example was just the most obvious example that counters your assertion "they must have just tried one or two and assumed from there." Get Wilson or Hackathorn on the phone and they will very quickly tell you the same thing...I am not debating these facts any further.
I didn't blame the design. The 1911 was designed to run with hardball and it does that if built to spec and often if somewhat out of spec. It isn't the 1911s fault people wanted it to do more than it was designed to do.
I can't say smarter people did it, but changes have been made to some 1911s from the original design to try to give people what they want, including more reliable feeding of hollowpoints and 9mm. I quit working on them long ago so I can't say for sure if they were successful yet.
Sorry. That hasn't been my experience.
I'll try again with a little more in-depth explanation as to what caused the failures with hollowpoints and SWCs.
The edges of the HP cavities and the SWC shoulders would often catch on the unramped portion of the old "GI Hardball" barrel ramps and pull the barrel forward too early. Take note that this didn't happen with all of them. Many would do just fine. The ones that didn't led to the myth that they were all problematical...and that just wasn't true.
As the barrel moves forward, it also moves up. If it moves up too early, the rear corners of the barrel lugs crash with the front corners of the slide lugs and effect what is called a 3-Point Jam. This led to the AMU modification to the barrel ramps, and became standard in all modern 1911 barrels produced since the late 70s and hollowpoints haven't been much of a problem since it was adopted as long as all else was to spec.
Maybe it's time for 1911 school...to outline the conditions and specs critical to feed reliability. When I was doing my workshops, these things were part of it. Since I stopped doing those, the best I can do is try to describe it here without being able to actually hold up the gun and visually demonstrate. I'll get to it a little later this morning in a different thread since this one has jumped track.
Stay tuned.
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I think you are insisting on having an argument that is different from what I am saying. Regardless of the reasons why, a very large noticeable number (I never said "all") of 1911s at the time did not reliably feed hollowpoints and that earned them that reputation. If you were able to specialize in addressing feed issues in 1911s during that same time period then I am not sure how you can claim that your experience or recollection wasn't the same as the rest of us. If you acknowledge the hardball ramps caused issues and you acknowledge Colt was making bad/out of spec guns at the time, that accounts for a majority of the 1911s available and it seems like we would be in agreement.
I haven't acknowledged anything of the sort. The old "Hardball" ramps were within spec...for the time that they were used. Hollowpoint .45 Auto ammunition was just starting to come into use, and it started with the Speer flying ashtray...and even though the old barrel ramps weren't conducive to working with that bullet design...or SWCs for that matter...the majority of them did just fine with both. I was there. I saw it.
Occasionally...largely because of tolerance stacking while still being within spec in the other dimensions...one would give problems, and those problems almost always went away with the AMU ramp modification. After the manufacturers adopted the AMU ramp design across the board, only a pistol that was out of spec gave problems, and those also gave problems with hardball almost without exception. Witness the many modern pistols that run just fine with hollowpoint ammunition. Then....as sure as rain...when one doesn't, the old myth rears its head again.
So, I'll make a flat statement here.
If the gun is built to spec in all critical dimensions, it will feed and function with any decent hollowpoint on the market. If it doesn't, the pistol isn't built to spec.
And, for the record, I avoid arguments like the plague. I try to educate, and that often turns into an argument, which is why I stopped posting here for so long....and why I will again once this one has run its course. I take care of 24 dogs here, and I simply don't have the time or the inclination to engage in pissin' matches.
I've given you good information. What you do with it is up to you.
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Millie was here 2 weeks ago with this pistol. It had One FTF all day. One too many for Me, but it was the first mag, second round. Gun was Dry. I lubed it, showed her how, it ran flawlessly the rest of the day.
She left having learned that limp wristing Can Not cause a problem. Shot 2 mags through the gun holding with 2 fingers, upside down. Her gun has every option that folks like these days, Every.
She shot my 9mm Colt with the only mods being sights and trigger. I have had it for some time. She shot it flawlessly. The single thing that I would change about her gun is that damn full length guide rod. I hate them. I can prove to anybody that will accept evidence that they do NOTHING to help accuracy. They are a nuisance.
I gave her to keep for a year a new Springfield Armory GI spec gun. Unfired when she got it. Several people shot it with No problems. She had problems with it in feeding. I am beginning to think she might be hindering slide travel in some way. Maybe her coach can watch for this.
This is all I can add, from first hand experience. Having been standing beside her all day. It's difficult to try to Fix a gun you have never seen or had your hands on. But ya'll have been trying for 7 pages so march on.
After an all day shooting session here, once the gun was lubed, that done after the first round was fired, the gun ran perfect All Day Long.
An event with no event. Your efforts at this point to fix a "problem" that I have not seen duplicated on the range with the pistol or the operator is in my opinion, futile at best.
Carry on...………..
She left having learned that limp wristing Can Not cause a problem. Shot 2 mags through the gun holding with 2 fingers, upside down. Her gun has every option that folks like these days, Every.
She shot my 9mm Colt with the only mods being sights and trigger. I have had it for some time. She shot it flawlessly. The single thing that I would change about her gun is that damn full length guide rod. I hate them. I can prove to anybody that will accept evidence that they do NOTHING to help accuracy. They are a nuisance.
I gave her to keep for a year a new Springfield Armory GI spec gun. Unfired when she got it. Several people shot it with No problems. She had problems with it in feeding. I am beginning to think she might be hindering slide travel in some way. Maybe her coach can watch for this.
This is all I can add, from first hand experience. Having been standing beside her all day. It's difficult to try to Fix a gun you have never seen or had your hands on. But ya'll have been trying for 7 pages so march on.
After an all day shooting session here, once the gun was lubed, that done after the first round was fired, the gun ran perfect All Day Long.
An event with no event. Your efforts at this point to fix a "problem" that I have not seen duplicated on the range with the pistol or the operator is in my opinion, futile at best.
Carry on...………..
If she's having a problem...regardless of its cause...it needs to be fixed. I've suggested that she drop to a 10 pound recoil spring in order to address any grip issues. We can never estimate or make assumptions about anyone's grip strength or technique, especially an unknown female who is just getting started. We can coach her, but it's easy to lose concentration during a string and lose the grip. Dropping the spring rate a couple pounds will point this out. If the gun doesn't give her any more problem, it's in her grip...and it's fixed. "Fix" doesn't always involve files and stones. It's usually somethin' simple.
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After the gun was lubed. This after the First round. There was NO PROBLEM exhibited here. All day. Several boxes of ammo.
OP
Billy, I'll have Tony watch my hands again next time we shoot, and let you know what he sees. He's had the gun to shoot in the rare times at work when he can get in a lane, for a few days here and there, and it goes perfectly for him, so it must be ....me!!! Lol. We'll see how it does in a 6-hour class tomorrow....should be interesting, right?
It was nice seeing you last week, I hope to see you soon!
Well...It's not theoretical, James. Either the gun is built to spec or it's not...and if it's not, you can expect problems with any ammunition sooner or later. How often these problems surface depends on how far out of spec it is.
And the same goes for the magazines.
And as long as the gun is built to spec, it will run reliably on pretty much any decent quality ammunition you throw at it.
And here's where the rub is. The 1911 was designed around the .45 Auto cartridge..A 9mm 1911 is out of spec from the git-go. I'm frankly surprised that as many of them do as well as they do.
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A Good 9mm 1911 is built to specs 9mm 1911 specs not 45 1911 specs then comes the question when is it no longer a 1911 and what about the sig 1911 which has a external extractor that is not in spec when I last checked beavertail grip safety and bushing less bull barrels are not in the specs my 40 s&w 1911 and 10mm 1911 have ramped barrels many 9mm 1911s are now coming with ramped barrels. from a earlier post you said "This led to the AMU modification to the barrel ramps" which is a non (JMB) spec modification to make it run with more types of ammo the specs are not the same as they were in 1911 and the 1911s produced today are 100% better that the 1911s produced 50 years ago
That's just the point. The pistol had to be taken so far from spec to get it to run with the 9mm cartridge that it's a miracle that they could get it to run at all. Colt worked out most of the bugs with the .38 Super, but the Super was long enough and the rim large enough to work with...but that doesn't apply to the 9mm. It's too short, it has a taper, and the rim is too tiny to trust 100% in the 1911 platform.
If you want to nitpick, the arched mainspring housing and the scalloped cuts behind the trigger guard are non JMB modifications. So is the rectangular front sight tenon and the keyway cut for the disconnect. Specs that actually mean something are the specs that determine functionality.
The AMU modification didn't alter the barrel ramp angle. It only opened up the sides to allow a SWC shoulder to clear the ramp.
The external extractor has proven problematical in several pistols, and there's no easy way to adjust it even though external extractors in other designs have proven dead reliable. The farther you stray from Browning, the more trouble you'll have.
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the specs for a 9mm or even a 38 super are different than the specs for a 45 so saying that a 9mm is out of spec is incorrect as JMB had no specs for the 9mm but now over a 100 years later we have reliable 9mm 1911s from the factory
Yes, many do seem to run very well...until they don't...and then it can be a royal headache to make'em run again.
You can ask me how I'd know about that but I doubt it'd make any difference.
I know it may be a wasted effort, but a little later on, I'll try as gently as I can to go into detail as to why the 9mm cartridge has been so problematical for Johnny's toy.
Hint: It's all in the angles.
Well...until you actually found a gun that was "in spec", it was theoretical that you would ever find one or that they still existed. Dealers didn't let you shoot all of the 1911s in inventory and pick the one that worked with hollow points.
But I agree with everything else you are saying.
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Joe runs a successful auto repair garage. Over the years, Joe has had many Chrychevrolord Super Mudbogger 4WD trucks in his shop for various repairs.
Bob owns a Chrychevrolord Super Mudbogger. Joe tells Bob that because his truck is approaching 40,000 miles that he should think about getting rid of it because it will soon turn into a money sucking black hole as various systems start to fail one after another.
But Bob is sure that Joe is full of it because his Chrychevrolord Super Mudbogger 4WD truck has never given a minute's problem.
Because personal belief about a thing always trumps years of hands on experience with the thing.
So...never mind. I'm just gonna go back into hiding.
Carry on.
Bob owns a Chrychevrolord Super Mudbogger. Joe tells Bob that because his truck is approaching 40,000 miles that he should think about getting rid of it because it will soon turn into a money sucking black hole as various systems start to fail one after another.
But Bob is sure that Joe is full of it because his Chrychevrolord Super Mudbogger 4WD truck has never given a minute's problem.
Because personal belief about a thing always trumps years of hands on experience with the thing.
So...never mind. I'm just gonna go back into hiding.
Carry on.
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Dirtydirtysouf
Well-Known Member
Would that man have been 1911Tuner from the old board?
Perhaps…he's a wierdo that likes dogs, but knows his way around a 1911
lies. blasphemer.