I screwed up....bad!

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Reflecting back to this post and the stupid shit that I did. Had my cousin in from Baltimore and he wanted to see my guns (maybe 35 years ago), so I pulled out the 1 or 3 handguns that I had and then he asked about any rifles. I had one Remington maybe 522. I dumped the bullets out of the magazine them pulled the trigger. BANG hole through my mattress and a hole in the wall.
Thank G-D that it was not pointed at anybody and I did not have a waterbed.
Lesson learned that day.............all guns are loaded and ready to fire. Even if they are in the safe and unloaded.
 
I'm afraid you're right...…..it will mean MUCH shorter actual shooting sessions. My age is catching up. I remember an interview with Ken Hackathorn where he was asked about being the RO at Gunsite....he replied...I never was, there was only ONE and that was Jeff Cooper.
While I am certainly Not The Colonel I need to look into how he handled this delegation of range authority as he got older. The difference is of course, his was a business and ours is our home.

Stop aging; problem solved.



I was almost killed Memorial Day weekend 2006 after returning home from a deployment to Iraq. I’d gone to visit some future in laws in Ohio (near Salem) and they normally do target and skeet shooting on the farmland during the weekend.

One of the cousins was probably 14-15 at the time. He was almost my executioner. After shooting for a while, I was kneeling down picking up shotgun shells. The next thing I knew, I heard a BOOOM and the ground erupted in my face showering me with soil and grass. The young teen had been holding a shotgun that he thought was clear and on safe....and was resting his finger on the trigger. Well, it was neither clear nor on safe, and he fired a 12ga shell within a couple feet from my head. I stood up and took the shotgun and he was yelling about the safety while his dad was running across the yard to get to his son and see what happened/provide corrective action etc. I cleared the shotgun and handed it to his dad and walked away. Survived 14 months of a busy deployment in Baghdad almost to die by the hands of an untrained kid. I won’t forget that any time soon
 
First if all you need to forgive yourself for making a mistake and then move on. Nobody got hurt and you are now a member of a rather large club. I wonder how many other forum members have had an unintended discharge and are willing to admit to it. I had ONE forty seven years ago and never had another. Lesson learned. Lots of great advice in this forum, I hope you pay attention to it. Billy did you a great service by encouraging you to fire that .22. You have to get back on the horse and ride when it throws you. The next step is up yo you.
I will hope and pray that I don't have another for 47 years! (I'm 63, so I hope that's feasible.)

And I will be shooting my revolver tomorrow. I've had enough people tell me I need to get back to it, and I'll be a the range anyway for a meeting, so I may as well get on the horse and ride....but a different horse, this time. Lol. Saturday I might take the actual "horse" for a ride....

Thanks to all of you for the encouragement.
 
Here’s the thing. There’s no reason to not shoot for a while because of this

Do you have your guns for protection? If so, you need to wrap your brain around, and prepare yourself for the time when you might actually have to use one of those pistols as it was intended: to kill a person (or people).

This is a psychological lesson many people never realize they need in addition to all the hours training on the range
I do plan to shoot tomorrow. I have to get back to it. My range is closed Sundays.

I do carry my gun every day for protection. It's become part of my "dressing" and getting ready to get on with my day.

I've been trying for many months to get my head wrapped around the idea that some day I might have to shoot someone. My instructor has been working on that with me. If you haven't been in law enforcement or the military, it really is an extremely hard concept to grasp, and I think about it quite a bit, especially when I'm out and about, watching the people around me, because you just never know, do you? This world has changed so much in my lifetime.
 
Thanks to Stick Man for his help on the range. Again, I was not present. I can't always be there and twice in the past week there were problems. This weather tends to sap me quickly so I was in the Gun Room. With Doug Holder [you will remember him as the HK Suitcase man], and Shane down range I knew I was covered.
The thing is, it wouldn't have mattered who was down there. We all strive to Never let this happen and yet when 100s of people and 10s of thousands of rounds are involved it's only a matter of time.
This is the 4th this year....none that I can remember last year. Maybe 10 in the last 10 years. I will not run a range where everyone leaves and thinks they have been exposed to a Range Nazi. Yet, this is Not a commercial business, it is our Home. There are some changes that have to be made and while I' m reluctant , it will have to be done.
This has Always been a HOT RANGE. Only 1 ND has happened OFF the range. That's the one that will always stick with me. I was saved from a fired 357 mag that was fired into the top of my work bench that I was sitting by a man that could be my son. How I was missed I do not know. The Gun Room had 7 or 8 people present, they all got the lesson of a life time.
Millie will be fine. She is a survivor. This hit her hard. She did not try to push it off as "well I have seen others do it". This would have been a problem.
PLEASE, do not hesitate to give ANY advice ANY of you have. Since the only way you can get on this range is to be a CFF member I expect feedback from any who have been or intend to come. Help me with this members, I want to continue to see glowing reports of after action on the range not a disaster.
As always these have been the rules
Gunsite Rules
1. ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded
2.Never let your muzzle cross anything you are not willing to DISTROY
3. Finger off the trigger til your sights are on the target
4. Be sure of your target AND what is beyond

Our rules require there to be a designated singular Range officer when more than ONE [1] shooter is down range.

The Gunsite rules are infallible. Men and women of Battery Oaks I implore you, help me keep this wonderful place open to all of you. If I feel I can't do this safely, we will have to regroup. I ask you all to remember this is our Home, nobody pays Anything here, you are our Guest. When we can no longer go forth with Southern Hospitality. a handshake, a hug, as our only requirement, it will be a sad day.

Billy and Ronnie Sue
Billy, I might have my next tattoo sorted out! I might get the 4 rules put on my inside right forearm, where I can always see them. And maybe a big fat .45 round, just to remind me never to assume anything about a gun, and not to get distracted from what's happening with a gun.

And thanks for getting me to shoot that .22 right before we packed up for the day. That was probably the best thing for me.
 
I am certain that your wisdom and kind words have helped many of people on this forum. Now, it is time to take wisdom from others. Learn, forgive and move on as so many have said. Be kind to yourself and keep doing what you love.
I hope even one person takes this in and learns. Guns are not something you can handle without all your attention on them, and only them!

I will keep doing what I love, and what is essentially "therapy"for me.
 
Stop aging; problem solved.



I was almost killed Memorial Day weekend 2006 after returning home from a deployment to Iraq. I’d gone to visit some future in laws in Ohio (near Salem) and they normally do target and skeet shooting on the farmland during the weekend.

One of the cousins was probably 14-15 at the time. He was almost my executioner. After shooting for a while, I was kneeling down picking up shotgun shells. The next thing I knew, I heard a BOOOM and the ground erupted in my face showering me with soil and grass. The young teen had been holding a shotgun that he thought was clear and on safe....and was resting his finger on the trigger. Well, it was neither clear nor on safe, and he fired a 12ga shell within a couple feet from my head. I stood up and took the shotgun and he was yelling about the safety while his dad was running across the yard to get to his son and see what happened/provide corrective action etc. I cleared the shotgun and handed it to his dad and walked away. Survived 14 months of a busy deployment in Baghdad almost to die by the hands of an untrained kid. I won’t forget that any time soon
I won't forget your story any time soon, guaranteed! Thanks for sharing that.
 
Nobody hurt and a lesson learned. Could have been a lot worse.

In addition to the 4 rules, which I find myself reciting pretty much daily lately, I would add this - evertime you pick up a gun, treat it like its a poisonous snake. Told to me by my Grandfather on the occasion of me learning to handle guns and shoot. Has stayed with me over the years.

Working as an instructor, carrying a gun daily for a living and now working in a LGS I have been around and handled guns daily since I was VERY young. And familiarity DOES breed contempt. Several times a day I pick up a gun to show to a customer. And when I'm tired I will sometimes think, well.....I cleared this one not an hour ago to showsomeone else. NO! I clear it again. And fight the complacency.

When I worked at the local indoor range a few years back, a fellow instructor - who was retired LE/longtime competitor/active CCW instructor picked up a customers malfunctioning handgun. He was standing at the counter, three feet to my right. He dropped the mag and BOOM! triggered the round in the tube. The 40 round went over my head and through the window in the lobby. Lodged in the tree outside the window. Good thing too as we were across the street from a busy airport. He got complacent. From doing it all day, day after day. Year after year. Luckily the gun was pointed over my head when it went off. Singed my hat.

But nobody was hurt and a lesson was learned. Glad you are back on the horse Millie. Regards 18DAI
 
@Millie I am glad it all worked out favorably and only pride was damaged. I am far from an expert and certainly still have things to learn, but one thing I try to do, and so far so good, is drop the mag and lock the slide back when the gun isn’t in a holster or a safe. Especially when handing the gun to somebody or showing it to someone. There is just too many bad things that can happen when casually handling a weapon.
 
Thanks to Stick Man for his help on the range. Again, I was not present. I can't always be there and twice in the past week there were problems. This weather tends to sap me quickly so I was in the Gun Room. With Doug Holder [you will remember him as the HK Suitcase man], and Shane down range I knew I was covered.
The thing is, it wouldn't have mattered who was down there. We all strive to Never let this happen and yet when 100s of people and 10s of thousands of rounds are involved it's only a matter of time.
This is the 4th this year....none that I can remember last year. Maybe 10 in the last 10 years. I will not run a range where everyone leaves and thinks they have been exposed to a Range Nazi. Yet, this is Not a commercial business, it is our Home. There are some changes that have to be made and while I' m reluctant , it will have to be done.
This has Always been a HOT RANGE. Only 1 ND has happened OFF the range. That's the one that will always stick with me. I was saved from a fired 357 mag that was fired into the top of my work bench that I was sitting by a man that could be my son. How I was missed I do not know. The Gun Room had 7 or 8 people present, they all got the lesson of a life time.
Millie will be fine. She is a survivor. This hit her hard. She did not try to push it off as "well I have seen others do it". This would have been a problem.
PLEASE, do not hesitate to give ANY advice ANY of you have. Since the only way you can get on this range is to be a CFF member I expect feedback from any who have been or intend to come. Help me with this members, I want to continue to see glowing reports of after action on the range not a disaster.
As always these have been the rules
Gunsite Rules
1. ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded
2.Never let your muzzle cross anything you are not willing to DISTROY
3. Finger off the trigger til your sights are on the target
4. Be sure of your target AND what is beyond

Our rules require there to be a designated singular Range officer when more than ONE [1] shooter is down range.

The Gunsite rules are infallible. Men and women of Battery Oaks I implore you, help me keep this wonderful place open to all of you. If I feel I can't do this safely, we will have to regroup. I ask you all to remember this is our Home, nobody pays Anything here, you are our Guest. When we can no longer go forth with Southern Hospitality. a handshake, a hug, as our only requirement, it will be a sad day.

Billy and Ronnie Sue
I am sorry to read this Billy as I haven't met you yet (I hope to resolve this soon especially if I can get another certain member to drive me down there) but you are definitely one of the most generous people I have read about on all of the internet when it comes to your home, range, knowledge, and opinion.

My only advice is that the inhabitants of the compound come first and no amount of good will is worth risking everything you have worked hard all your life for. I am glad you have some people helping you keep an eye out and I'll definitely do the same if I am fortunate enough to step foot onto your property. I hope this run of bad luck is over... indefinitely!!!
 
Things happen.It is over and now you are learning from it.Yes it is scary.Yes it will make you question yourself.Think of it as a healthy fear.Slow down and go back to the basics.You will be safer for it and trust me,you will be just fine.
 
I am sorry to read this Billy as I haven't met you yet (I hope to resolve this soon especially if I can get another certain member to drive me down there) but you are definitely one of the most generous people I have read about on all of the internet when it comes to your home, range, knowledge, and opinion.

My only advice is that the inhabitants of the compound come first and no amount of good will is worth risking everything you have worked hard all your life for. I am glad you have some people helping you keep an eye out and I'll definitely do the same if I am fortunate enough to step foot onto your property. I hope this run of bad luck is over... indefinitely!!!


Thanks so much. You got what I was hoping all got. I really appreciate your thoughts and hope you can join us soon!! Billy
 
PLEASE, do not hesitate to give ANY advice ANY of you have. Since the only way you can get on this range is to be a CFF member I expect feedback from any who have been or intend to come. Help me with this members, I want to continue to see glowing reports of after action on the range not a disaster.

The Gunsite rules are infallible. Men and women of Battery Oaks I implore you, help me keep this wonderful place open to all of you. If I feel I can't do this safely, we will have to regroup. I ask you all to remember this is our Home, nobody pays Anything here, you are our Guest. When we can no longer go forth with Southern Hospitality. a handshake, a hug, as our only requirement, it will be a sad day.
Billy and Ronnie Sue

Simply because I have the utmost respect for those people who hold the responsibility for maintaining high levels of expectations regarding gun safety at the Battery Oaks I'll share my thoughts. I have been a Risk Manager and Safety Officer for quite some time and certainly understand that many of my decisions and expectations must be clear and concise due to the potential risks to life and limb of those I am charged to provide direction to. For the record, it is impressive that @Millie faced up to the mistake and jumped right back in to continue fine-tuning her shooting and range safety skills. My hat is off to you Millie.

A message I use many times as a risk manager and safety officer is below and describes my feelings about gun safety as well.


Safety Reminder.jpg
 
Simply because I have the utmost respect for those people who hold the responsibility for maintaining high levels of expectations regarding gun safety at the Battery Oaks I'll share my thoughts. I have been a Risk Manager and Safety Officer for quite some time and certainly understand that many of my decisions and expectations must be clear and concise due to the potential risks to life and limb of those I am charged to provide direction to. For the record, it is impressive that @Millie faced up to the mistake and jumped right back in to continue fine-tuning her shooting and range safety skills. My hat is off to you Millie.

A message I use many times as a risk manager and safety officer is below and describes my feelings about gun safety as well.


View attachment 129513
a safety violation is what ended my working career , some idiot and I use that term very loosely for this person took apart a structure and didn't put it back like it was
 
Don't feel bad Millie. Everybody makes a mistake from time to time.

I was on a swat team for four years and a swat instructor for one year. I saw some of the best trained men in the world have negligent discharges on the range and in live fire kill house training scenarios.

It can happen to any of us... Thankfully, no one was hurt. That's the important thing. Keep on shooting!
 
Don't feel bad Millie. Everybody makes a mistake from time to time.

I was on a swat team for four years and a swat instructor for one year. I saw some of the best trained men in the world have negligent discharges on the range and in live fire kill house training scenarios.

It can happen to any of us... Thankfully, no one was hurt. That's the important thing. Keep on shooting!
I can't not feel bad. I just hope I can feel better as time goes on. Going shooting today, noon-ish.
 
NDs happen, humans are not machines and they will make mistakes. You made a bad one. I have made bad ones myself.

One time I was showing our then-15 year old son a new pistol that I had fired a few mags threw on our backyard home range. It was a little .22 semi-auto that had no safety besides the trigger. It was so small that I managed to finger-fark the trigger while charging the slide and BAM sent one into the berm and looked over and his eyes were as wide as pie plates. I told him the same thing as I will tell you now:

ALL GUNS ARE LOADED. Keep your damn finger off the trigger unless you're aiming it in a safe direction (target, game animal, life-threatening human etc) and are completely making decisions about that bullet leaving the barrel.

Several years down the road, he picks up a single action 22 that we both dearly love, that appears to have 9 empty cases that had been fired (we had been shooting CB shorts on soda cans early) and pulls the trigger 3 times and BANG shot a .22 CB short ( that had misfired but fired the 2nd time) into the bottom our kitchen cabinet. I probably gave him that same look he gave me years ago.

First thing out of his mouth after I'm sorry was I am sure glad I pointed it in a safe direction. I said yeah but the first rule always applies!

He learned the same lesson that you will. rule #1 is #1 for a reason, but the other ones may still save a life or limb ;)
 
Hi Millie
I'm glad you or no one else was hurt , I didn't see in your original post where you thumbed off the safety on the 1911, so I had to ask if you have been trained on the 1911? its a little different beast than most guns if you carry with one in the pipe you will be locked and cocked. I was just curious if you remember thumbing the safety off or if you were carrying with one chambered with safety off ? I'm glad you posted as it is a great teaching tool.
 
A mistake made. A positive, if painful, outcome. I know that it hurts, it should, but that hurt will drive you to become a new ambassador for safety and another "good eye" on the range because you will forever see things differently.
 
Hi Millie
I'm glad you or no one else was hurt , I didn't see in your original post where you thumbed off the safety on the 1911, so I had to ask if you have been trained on the 1911? its a little different beast than most guns if you carry with one in the pipe you will be locked and cocked. I was just curious if you remember thumbing the safety off or if you were carrying with one chambered with safety off ? I'm glad you posted as it is a great teaching tool.
I'm pretty sure I had just put the gun down and gone up to the gun room. I don't remember taking the safety off as I was extolling the virtues of a 1911 to StickMan, I was just holding it across my chest. So not only was there around in there, there was no safety on. Extra idiocy from me. If I had just locked the slide back before I set it down, we'd not be having this painful discussion! (And thank God I didn't touch the trigger till I was pointing it at the woods!)

In the good news department, I did go shoot my revolver today, and the G19, not for long, but I heeded the wisdom of the forum and went and shot. My hands were a tad shaky throughout, but I went and did it.
 
NDs happen, humans are not machines and they will make mistakes. You made a bad one. I have made bad ones myself.

One time I was showing our then-15 year old son a new pistol that I had fired a few mags threw on our backyard home range. It was a little .22 semi-auto that had no safety besides the trigger. It was so small that I managed to finger-fark the trigger while charging the slide and BAM sent one into the berm and looked over and his eyes were as wide as pie plates. I told him the same thing as I will tell you now:

ALL GUNS ARE LOADED. Keep your damn finger off the trigger unless you're aiming it in a safe direction (target, game animal, life-threatening human etc) and are completely making decisions about that bullet leaving the barrel.

Several years down the road, he picks up a single action 22 that we both dearly love, that appears to have 9 empty cases that had been fired (we had been shooting CB shorts on soda cans early) and pulls the trigger 3 times and BANG shot a .22 CB short ( that had misfired but fired the 2nd time) into the bottom our kitchen cabinet. I probably gave him that same look he gave me years ago.

First thing out of his mouth after I'm sorry was I am sure glad I pointed it in a safe direction. I said yeah but the first rule always applies!

He learned the same lesson that you will. rule #1 is #1 for a reason, but the other ones may still save a life or limb ;)
I got the next tattoo planned. It'll say "The 4 Rules" and have a .45 round under it. This will go on my forearm, so I'll always have it visible.
A significant event in my life always gets ink, even (especially maybe) painful ones. It's bound to be a conversation starter, and I'll be able to be an example of what not to do: be a careless ding-bat! Lol.
 
The very existence of this thread and those who have posted in it could potentially save a life or injury down the road. Just as witnessing or hearing of an unfortunate auto accident, a good reminder on occasion is of extreme value.
 
Wow Millie that's awful. Those 1911 have hair triggers. They make them easy to shoot, but also easy to go off with incidental touch of the trigger. Glad everyone is ok. Your going to beat yourself up, i know i would if i had one like that, but you need to look at it as a lesson and keep your focus on gun safety like a laser beam. You'll be a better shooter because of it. What you just gained was experience.

By posting here we can all learn from it, so good on you for posting.

V
 
Wow Millie that's awful. Those 1911 have hair triggers. They make them easy to shoot, but also easy to go off with incidental touch of the trigger. Glad everyone is ok. Your going to beat yourself up, i know i would if i had one like that, but you need to look at it as a lesson and keep your focus on gun safety like a laser beam. You'll be a better shooter because of it. What you just gained was experience.

By posting here we can all learn from it, so good on you for posting.

V
I have indeed been beating myself up, but learned today at the range that a whole lotta people have shot up a whole lot of stuff, like walls and things.

I got a nice pep talk from my former instructor, with examples of other incidents, and then I went and shot the .45 I shot so carelessly on Saturday. Hands were shaking. I also gave the G19 a good workout, and shot the p238 some. Not a bad day. Much better than Saturday night and the next couple of days. Hands were steady when I left, so I'm progressing.
Thanks for the encouragement.
 
The 4 points are good knowledge but in the beginning before handling a loaded firearm the familarization on the weapon is nothing more than a passing thought for most. The knowledge of a weapon's deadly flaws should be first and foremost. A 1911 has a many if not more safety features yet in the world of AD/ND's it is one of the more dangerous because the rules of safety can be easily be broken with the slightest mental mistake. It takes years of handling a specific firearm to become completely proficient in all aspects of that firearm to be safe. My advice to BOBilly would be no handling of firearms except in designated areas and all weapons unholstered/uncased would be cleared and made safe in a specific area as well. All people in attendance should be designated as safety officers and those rules enforced to the point of personal friendship by all, no standoffs allowed.
 
I have indeed been beating myself up, but learned today at the range that a whole lotta people have shot up a whole lot of stuff, like walls and things.

I got a nice pep talk from my former instructor, with examples of other incidents, and then I went and shot the .45 I shot so carelessly on Saturday. Hands were shaking. I also gave the G19 a good workout, and shot the p238 some. Not a bad day. Much better than Saturday night and the next couple of days. Hands were steady when I left, so I'm progressing.
Thanks for the encouragement.

Reminds me of some the holes in the ceiling at the Wake County range. What angle did they have their rifle to shoot the ceiling 10 feet in front of the firing line?! At the end of the day, we're all human.
 
I'll say this and I'll move on from this thread. ANY Handgunner knows the name Bill Jordon. Author, Head of the Border Patrol, National Pistol Champion, NRA Board Member, and Father of the S&W model 19. The great Bill Jordon killed a man with what he thought was an unloaded gun. He shot a Border Patrol officer in the next room with a model 19. It haunted him the rest of his life. I have read remarks by the dead man's daughter. She is certain that her family was responsible for Jordon to be able to move forward and lead the productive life he did.
If it can happen to Bill Jordon, it can happen to anybody.
 
@BatteryOaksBilly
Your post gave me an idea. Maybe it's time for one of the mods to close this thread so we can all move on. Waddya think?
On reflection, not very gentlemanly of me to suggest this without asking @Millie for her opinion.
 
Millie,
I was there and I met you for the 1st time that day. Lessons are learned in questionable ways sometimes. Maybe you were used as a example to instill rule 1 into my cousin and 1 or someone else present.
If it means anything, I'd go shooting with you anytime.
 
On reflection, not very gentlemanly of me to suggest this without asking @Millie for her opinion.
It's not up to me.....I've done what I needed to do. If it stays up and can teach people not to be careless, then that's good. Would you just make it so no more replies can be posted or will it disappear? No more replies is ok with me, I think we've all said what we need to say, but I'd still like it to stay up and be an example of what can happen when you're not focusing on things that need total concentration.
 
Millie,
I was there and I met you for the 1st time that day. Lessons are learned in questionable ways sometimes. Maybe you were used as a example to instill rule 1 into my cousin and 1 or someone else present.
If it means anything, I'd go shooting with you anytime.
Thanks. I remember you guys! Nice meeting you.
 
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