The Inside Scoop of Buying a USED car

I know a lot of dealers that clear out their inventory in December and not replenish it until after the 1st of January.
They always said that they have to pay some kind of tax on whatever inventory was in stock. I know that is how it worked in IN
but I also heard it down here in NC. I never really asked mush more about it because as I understand accounting, year end inventory is an asset
until sold and then the profit is taxed. How can inventory be taxed if it isn't sold? They tax assets?

They tax the cars I own every year (property tax). Why wouldn’t the ones owned by dealers be taxed? Maybe new cars are exempt but used are not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
That does make sense. I do know that the states that do this are also states with a much lower property tax on homes, etc.
Thanks! I always wondered about it without applying logic.
 
So just an observation, take it for what it is worth. Most of us- apparently are somewhat grounded in the old school fundamental concept of the overall mileage, condition, rarity, color, engine, transmission and suspension, etc as the determinants of used car value.

I think for today's world we are wrong - or becoming much less correct. Here's why: think about all the new car ads for the past 8 to 10 years. All they are touting is electronic systems, computers, integrated entertainment, bluetooth and GPS, etc. NAV, blah blah blah. You already know what it means when one of these things shits the bed today. Replacing one of these cost more than the frigging engine ! *if you can get the parts at all*

We are largely fooled into thinking that only the moving parts fail-I have first hand experience with the really bizarre stuff that crops up when electronics fail, partially fail, or make you wish they would stop messing with your sanity. Add into that possibly deployed Airbag expenses or airbag control units and you have a situation where nothing essential ( in reality ) to the vehicle causes a 90% depreciation regardless of mileage or the condition of the fundamentals of our past. So I really question the fact that values are still so hinged to (mechanical) mileage numbers. Today, the health of the electronics is so much more a real $ factor and the manufacturing economic reality is they are not built to last as long as the rest of the car- add in a few manufacturing defects ( bad solder connections) along the way and all the wunder-gadgets become expensive paperweights.

Worse, so many of these systems are so integrated into the vehicle that the once simple swap out repair of a single electrical component will not work, its a system with configurations, firmware and software which the manufacturer may no longer support. Third party repair shops have little hope dealing with proprietary software.

My opinion is that the car world still does not properly price this into a used car.
The car buying public still has no concept of the cost to repair or replace these widgets. $$$$
Many car lots are not thinking of the time bombs these systems represent financially.
Auction cruisers are still spend more time listening to the engine than making sure all the features work.
The issue is only going to get worse in a logarithmic fashion as more and more fully loaded technical wonders hit the used car market.
 
Alfred, your wisdom is right on!
The facts you mention are 100% right on!
They even bypassed my radar since I've been out of the retail end for a few years now.
The millennials are coming into their own and if they do not have their electronics, they will perish.
I think that as the basic machinery (engine, trans, etc) have become more reliable and less prone to breaking down, the shift has/will move to the electronics instead of what makes the car go.
The pricing of the ESCs will change to account for this as well.
I know that electronics seem to have a finite life and in a car they are exposed to extreme heat and cold as well as humidity. They will surely fail before an engine, these days.
These failures will cause the new buyers to walk away, leaving a dealer with the choice of a $500 electronic repair or to let the car sit until it ages to a non-profit status. It will shake up all the old school UCMs.
Good line of thinking!
 
The pricing of the ESCs will change to account for this as well.

Yep.

2015 = $995

2019 = $1,725

Same term & mileage. 7 years / 70,000 miles.

The difference? Lane departure and distance pacing cruise control technology on the 2019 but not on the 2015. All else the same, car to car.

The funny part of the ESC in this last purchase was the 7 year / 70,000 mile plan was $1,725 and the 8/80 was $1,795. $70 more for a extra year and 10,000 miles. Gee, I dunno........ should I spend that extra $70???? Lemme think on it.
 
Last edited:
So just an observation, take it for what it is worth. Most of us- apparently are somewhat grounded in the old school fundamental concept of the overall mileage, condition, rarity, color, engine, transmission and suspension, etc as the determinants of used car value.

I think for today's world we are wrong - or becoming much less correct. Here's why: think about all the new car ads for the past 8 to 10 years. All they are touting is electronic systems, computers, integrated entertainment, bluetooth and GPS, etc. NAV, blah blah blah. You already know what it means when one of these things shits the bed today. Replacing one of these cost more than the frigging engine ! *if you can get the parts at all*

We are largely fooled into thinking that only the moving parts fail-I have first hand experience with the really bizarre stuff that crops up when electronics fail, partially fail, or make you wish they would stop messing with your sanity. Add into that possibly deployed Airbag expenses or airbag control units and you have a situation where nothing essential ( in reality ) to the vehicle causes a 90% depreciation regardless of mileage or the condition of the fundamentals of our past. So I really question the fact that values are still so hinged to (mechanical) mileage numbers. Today, the health of the electronics is so much more a real $ factor and the manufacturing economic reality is they are not built to last as long as the rest of the car- add in a few manufacturing defects ( bad solder connections) along the way and all the wunder-gadgets become expensive paperweights.

Worse, so many of these systems are so integrated into the vehicle that the once simple swap out repair of a single electrical component will not work, its a system with configurations, firmware and software which the manufacturer may no longer support. Third party repair shops have little hope dealing with proprietary software.

My opinion is that the car world still does not properly price this into a used car.
The car buying public still has no concept of the cost to repair or replace these widgets. $$$$
Many car lots are not thinking of the time bombs these systems represent financially.
Auction cruisers are still spend more time listening to the engine than making sure all the features work.
The issue is only going to get worse in a logarithmic fashion as more and more fully loaded technical wonders hit the used car market.
Totally agree. The electronics are nice, granted, and my wife luuuuuvs the doo-dads all in her Escape. I've always preferred the simpler things - my minimum requirements are cruise, AC, and a radio/CD player - everything else is a money pit, and I can at least replace the radio/CD with aftermarket. In fact, my 2003 Ram lost its simple factory radio/CD player right after the warranty went out. $99 Pioneer from Circuit City, free install. I bought a 2006 Mustang convertible last year (LOVE that thing), and it already had a Kenwood radio/CD/Bluetooth/yadda/yadda/yadda system in it.

These systems are designed for ease and cheapness of assembly. I don't think (I don't know, since I don't work for a vehicle company) the designers have repairability as a requirement. They certainly don't come out that way. Ever hear "I have to take the entire engine apart to access/replace such-and-such"? The electronics are WORSE due to the increased integration with the car frame, and their life cycle is abysmally short. Standardization? We ain't got none of that. CAN bus standardized how peripherals talk to each other, but that's about it. Even in the older cars, just replacing a wiring harness was a nightmare from hell. Military vehicles and aircraft (especially) are a bit better that way - they have racks so that you can swap out cards, boxes, etc.
 
Why would a dealer send me a flyer offering 11k for my 2013 F150 with 66k on the clock and think I would take it? 4x4 and 201a package truck.... lol
 
Why would a dealer send me a flyer offering 11k for my 2013 F150 with 66k on the clock and think I would take it? 4x4 and 201a package truck.... lol
Ha, yep. There have been a few times when we got letters like that. "We need quality used vehicles!!! Our records show you have a yyy with nnn miles!!! We'll give you UP TO $xxx for it!!! Stop by today!!!" Once in a while my wife almost succumbed. I said, "NO. Look at how much it would take to replace EXACTLY what you have, which you like. AND, we are the only owners, have maintained it, and know the entire history. That is a ripoff offer, they will chisel their offer nowhere but DOWN from $xxx, and we are NOT wasting our time with that." I also opined that selling a good used vehicle with outstanding performance history (very little going wrong), at not even 50k miles, was an absolutely terrible way to raise capital, unless you just didn't need to drive any more.
 
Ha, yep. There have been a few times when we got letters like that. "We need quality used vehicles!!! Our records show you have a yyy with nnn miles!!! We'll give you UP TO $xxx for it!!! Stop by today!!!" Once in a while my wife almost succumbed. I said, "NO. Look at how much it would take to replace EXACTLY what you have, which you like. AND, we are the only owners, have maintained it, and know the entire history. That is a ripoff offer, they will chisel their offer nowhere but DOWN from $xxx, and we are NOT wasting our time with that." I also opined that selling a good used vehicle with outstanding performance history (very little going wrong), at not even 50k miles, was an absolutely terrible way to raise capital, unless you just didn't need to drive any more.

I am keeping this truck another 10 years at least.
 
Ha, yep. There have been a few times when we got letters like that. "We need quality used vehicles!!! Our records show you have a yyy with nnn miles!!! We'll give you UP TO $xxx for it!!! Stop by today!!!" Once in a while my wife almost succumbed. I said, "NO. Look at how much it would take to replace EXACTLY what you have, which you like. AND, we are the only owners, have maintained it, and know the entire history. That is a ripoff offer, they will chisel their offer nowhere but DOWN from $xxx, and we are NOT wasting our time with that." I also opined that selling a good used vehicle with outstanding performance history (very little going wrong), at not even 50k miles, was an absolutely terrible way to raise capital, unless you just didn't need to drive any more.
Exactly! These mailers are meant to get you to walk in the door. Then they pick apart your beautiful car.
If your car treats you good and you are the original owner, why would you get rid of it?
A car is a car, to me.
Maybe if the Tesla bug bit you or if you woke up one day and decided you wanted to be green like your kids, then selling it to a buddy would get the best value. Otherwise, the dealer will make $3000 off of your car since it's so nice.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it applies 10x to your present vehicle.
Unless it's a vanity thing, I never understood why someone would trade in a perfectly good, well running car.
It wastes a ton of money.
 
Exactly! These mailers are meant to get you to walk in the door. Then they pick apart your beautiful car.
If your car treats you good and you are the original owner, why would you get rid of it?
A car is a car, to me.
Maybe if the Tesla bug bit you or if you woke up one day and decided you wanted to be green like your kids, then selling it to a buddy would get the best value. Otherwise, the dealer will make $3000 off of your car since it's so nice.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it applies 10x to your present vehicle.
Unless it's a vanity thing, I never understood why someone would trade in a perfectly good, well running car.
It wastes a ton of money.

After we sell the house and move, I am getting a Tesla Model 3 for a commuter.

How did the dealerships get away with blocking Tesla from selling direct?
 
How did the dealerships get away with blocking Tesla from selling direct?
I can't say for sure but the automobile lobbyists have a lot of money. A lot. I'd guess that they had something to do with it.
If you eliminate the middle man (car dealers) and sell factory direct, a lot of very wealthy dealers would lose a lot of money.
It starts with 1 franchise (like Tesla) and with the precedence set, it would only be a matter of time for all factories to sell direct.
After all, the dealers make buying a new car something a lot of people try to avoid at all costs. The dealers did this to themselves.
 
I can't say for sure but the automobile lobbyists have a lot of money. A lot. I'd guess that they had something to do with it.
If you eliminate the middle man (car dealers) and sell factory direct, a lot of very wealthy dealers would lose a lot of money.
It starts with 1 franchise (like Tesla) and with the precedence set, it would only be a matter of time for all factories to sell direct.
After all, the dealers make buying a new car something a lot of people try to avoid at all costs. The dealers did this to themselves.

The hatred of Tesla is amazing
 
I don't see why the consumers would hate Tesla except for not being able to afford one. Jealousy is a very real thing and drives hatred.

The automakers have every right to fear Tesla. Tesla is the leader of the future in automobiles, like it or not. If these large car producers don;t get on board with the electronic cars and create competition for the Teslas, they will fail in the not-to-distant future. Tesla is very real and if they do get to sell factory-to-consumer, the dealers are in big trouble.

The hatred is very real and it's driven by greed and jealousy. The Big 3 need to figure this out. No more bailouts, it's all up to them. They got fat and lazy and will be paying the piper very soon. Tesla is very real. They know it.
 
The last few posts about electronics and cars has got me to thinking. I had a buddy that was a service tech at a dealership for several years, and he often warned about the coming electronics on cars, and the headaches they would cause for buyers.

Just like how computer systems today eventually stop being supported and updated, I could see car companies doing the same in the future.

The computer on your 2021 Toyota died? Sorry, that part is no longer made.

Neighbors kids keep hacking your 'old' 2024 F-150 with his drone controller? Sorry, we don't support or update that system any longer, but we'll be happy to sell you a brand new 2035 model for 110K.

The collision avoidance system gone out on your late model Honda? Sure, you can still drive it, but only in safe mode, where the car is limited to 35mph and the hazards stay on.

Me? I don't want rain sensing wipers. I don't want auto start ignition that works with the key still in your pocket. I don't want a car that will brake or change lanes for me. I don't need it to update facebook for me, or read emails to me as I drive.

All I want is cold AC, cruise control, and a good stereo. Power windows and bluetooth phone is nice, but I can live without them.

And on a personal note. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THATS GOOD IN THE WORLD, GIVE US MANUAL TRANSMISSION OPTIONS IN CARS AND TRUCKS. Yeah, that 17.5 speed AI, controlled, cloud-computing automatic is fine and dandy, but 5 gears and a stick to change them is all I want.
 
Last edited:
Me? I don't want rain sensing wipers. I don't want auto start ignition that works with the key still in your pocket. I don't want a car that will brake or change lanes for me. I don't need it to update facebook for me, or read emails to me as I drive.

All I want is cold AC, cruise control, and a good stereo. Power windows and bluetooth phone is nice, but I can live without them.

And on a personal note. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THATS GOOD IN THE WORLD, GIVE US MANUAL TRANSMISSION OPTIONS IN CARS AND TRUCKS. Yeah, that 17.5 speed AI, controlled, cloud-computing automatic is fine and dandy, but 5 gears and a stick to change them is all I want.

Amen. And I never asked for self-driving cars, nor do I want to be on the road with them. BTW, I don't hate Teslas, I just dont yet understand the the math on their whole usefulness, affordability or being environmentally helpful model. eg from mining materials to building them to generating electricity for charging them to driving them to recycling the heavy metals, etc. Really greener ? Cheaper to own and run ?
 
AL
Me? I don't want rain sensing wipers. I don't want auto start ignition that works with the key still in your pocket. I don't want a car that will brake or change lanes for me. I don't need it to update facebook for me, or read emails to me as I drive.

All I want is cold AC, cruise control, and a good stereo. Power windows and bluetooth phone is nice, but I can live without them.

And on a personal note. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THATS GOOD IN THE WORLD, GIVE US MANUAL TRANSMISSION OPTIONS IN CARS AND TRUCKS. Yeah, that 17.5 speed AI, controlled, cloud-computing automatic is fine and dandy, but 5 gears and a stick to change them is all I want.
Alfred stole my "Amen" because that was the word I was thinking as I was reading your post.
I'll still say it.
Amen!

The electronics posts also stirred my brain as well. Back when electronics were starting to catch on, I seem to remember that anything electronic not made at the factory (basically everything) was only warranted to 3 years or 36,000 miles and those were warrantied by the factory that made the product (e.g. Delco, Phillips, Motorola) and later Bose or Pioneer, etc. Basically, they swapped chassis and you got a new radio. Once the warranty wore off, you were stuck with buying a new stereo (like $500 in the 90s) or just said "screw it" and bought a nice aftermarket stereo for, like, $500+. I also wonder if the same thing applies with this advanced technology. If you stick with the factory warranty and it's past the 3 years or 36,000 miles, what then? As mentioned, these are all run by computers and we know how sensitive computers are to extreme heat, cold and moisture. I'd bet they have 3-4 years of life before they die, Our desk tops and lap tops struggle to make it 5 years and they are inside, under climate controlled conditions. In years gone by, the ESC electronic upgrades used to have surcharges if selected (like a GPS cost an additional $50, a power roof $75, electronic load leveling (always big problems, especially in Lincolns) add $150, etc. Do they manually list all these new features and tack on $1000 to the cost to cover everything? Does an ESC that used to cost $575 (dealer cost) now cost $1500? The sell goes from $1495 to $3995 and you'd be a fool to not take it due to the electronics?

Like Red Neck said, give me a car with the basics. I prefer auto trans but stick is more than fine. The computers will make these $35,000 cars disposable again.
 
Last edited:
I'll give a simple example, which may or not be relevant to other vehicles. Years back we had a 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee ( ZJ) . Hardly the paragon of technological advancement in automotive art. We're talking heavy just removed from the dark ages Detroit stuff. The vehicle had a simple center console display with basic "computer":rolleyes: readouts like distance to empty, blah blah. Great till it went dark. Cause ? Bad (cold) solder joint. Fixed that, cause that's what I do. Roll Tape...one day the ABS light started to come on- or more accurately didnt go out after driving a few thousand feet. The codes cant be read by my ordinary OBD tester. Turns out that I need a Mopar/ Jeep capable tester, one that not only reads codes, but can exercise the different diganostic routines that can specifically interrogate the ABS unit in this Jeep and command it do do certain things. ( I forget the deets , brain purge)

So, I bought a used fairly complex OTC branded professional tester off ebay, one that was SPECIFICALLY noted to do what I wanted in it's literature. No lie, totally pro setup along with a myriad of cables, adapters, and eproms for all the different brands. It didnt work. I called OTC and learned that yes, it says that in the manual, but they've never actually been able to get it to work. <----- repeat this 4 times, Rinse , repeat. Son of a...so no company has been able to figure out how to get the ABS unit in this...this...dinosaur of a vehicle to talk turkey ?

Really ? I found out later by reading that the issue I had was probably due to yet another bad ( cold ) solder joint in the ABS module.

If this can happen with a Steampunk vehicle it sure as heck can happen to the Mars Urban Rover.
 
The last few posts about electronics and cars has got me to thinking. I had a buddy that was a service tech at a dealership for several years, and he often warned about the coming electronics on cars, and the headaches they would cause for buyers.

Just like how computer systems today eventually stop being supported and updated, I could see car companies doing the same in the future.

The computer on your 2021 Toyota died? Sorry, that part is no longer made.

Neighbors kids keep hacking your 'old' 2024 F-150 with his drone controller? Sorry, we don't support or update that system any longer, but we'll be happy to sell you a brand new 2035 model for 110K.

The collision avoidance system gone out on your late model Honda? Sure, you can still drive it, but only in safe mode, where the car is limited to 35mph and the hazards stay on.

Me? I don't want rain sensing wipers. I don't want auto start ignition that works with the key still in your pocket. I don't want a car that will brake or change lanes for me. I don't need it to update facebook for me, or read emails to me as I drive.

All I want is cold AC, cruise control, and a good stereo. Power windows and bluetooth phone is nice, but I can live without them.

And on a personal note. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THATS GOOD IN THE WORLD, GIVE US MANUAL TRANSMISSION OPTIONS IN CARS AND TRUCKS. Yeah, that 17.5 speed AI, controlled, cloud-computing automatic is fine and dandy, but 5 gears and a stick to change them is all I want.

You see this opinion voiced all the time on car boards and even on high end card like BMW, Audi etc... but when you look at the actual numbers of car sold in this country with manual transmission it is extremely low. They don't sell well to the general public. Unless they were ordered from the factory by the buyer as a special order they tend to sit on the lot longer than other cars.

A friend of mine who owns a dealership once told me once that owning a dealership is like raising cattle. Once they are on the lot you have to feed them. Every day that it is on the lot it costs them money and the longer it takes for them to get to slaughter=sold the more it costs them. So for the dealer and the industry what your asking for does not make them money. Its all about making money.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom