Antifa in Portland - Escalating violence; what would you do....

I agree with @HMP that there is zero chance of a shooter being found in courts as justified. ANTIFA only operates in areas that are friendly to their cause. My point is that I will defend myself and kids and die in that manner rather than just allowing myself to be beaten to death in front of my kids without fighting back. I will not instigate anything, and I am assuming that I have the opportunity to avoid the mess unless my kids are in play somehow. Sorry in advance if that screws up life for my fellow gun owners.

In AUG 2017, I was driving to downtown Durham to pick up my kids from school. It was later in the same week that the statue had been torn down. Rumors had been started about a KKK rally (later found to have come from the sheriff) and a huge counter protest formed. I was briefly stuck in traffic while the police set up a perimeter at the corner of Main and Roxboro (I had been traveling from the Durham Freeway on Roxboro). At no point was I threatened or did I feel threatened, but the speed at which that many people flooded the area concerned me. I took my kids home via one of the alternate routes I had already established from when there were BLM protests that closed the Durham Freeway.

Later I learned there was a minimal presence of people with masks and guns (the Redneck Rebellion people). They whole event became a non-issue because nobody from the KKK ever showed up. I realized that day how quickly things happen in an urban environment and have changed a lot of my processes and gear that is in my car, mostly in having things packaged that make it easy to abandon my vehicle and BO on foot if needed.

The difference now is that violence is an expected part of the protesting process. The protests are designed by both sides to result in fighting. I doubt that anything like 2017 will happen again where no actual violence erupts, and I expect the situation to get worse rather than better. I will likely take the hit from a milkshake rather than shoot someone, but if it starts burning, or someone is targeting my kids, or someone is running toward me with a container and is screaming "burn" or some such then all bets will be off.

In summary things happen really fast (like a flash flood), violence is getting worse by design, mere rumors can set off the powder keg of protesting, and I'm an old white dude with health issues that would be viewed as an enemy and an easy target. So the bit that I can control out of all that is not being an easy target.
 
All right now, I'm comin' out. Any man I see out there, I'm gonna shoot him. Any sumbitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife. All his friends. Burn his damn house down.
Unforgiven. An all time favorite.
 
If you shoot someone who milkshakes you and the milkshake was just a milkshake:

The media will crucify you and the court will fry you.

If you shoot someone who plasters you with an acid milkshake.....you’ve got acid on your face. Sort of a lose-lose.

I’d not go anywhere close to that, but if you’re determined to, I’d probably wear some sort of lab goggles at the very least, if not a full face mask& respirator with a hood, with clothing that is resistant to (long enough to remove before it eats through and impregnates into your skin) milder acids (that won’t eat through a fast food cup).

And I’d probably have some small melee weapon to absolutely mollywhop whoever throws it. They’ll think twice about throwing a second one if they get past their Christmas coloring book
Since they have announced their intention to use acid with the intent to cause serious physical harm, they lose the assumption that a milkshake is just a milkshake and the use of deadly force to prevent serious injury is on the table as a lawful response.
This holds even if the milkshake is just a milkshake. They said they are going to use acid. I should not have to wait until they throw it at me just as I don't have to wait until someone fires a gun at me to verify it is a real gun, not a plastic replica.

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I get what you're saying but I wouldn't want to have that argument alone stand between me and a jail cell.

I don't think internet threats by other people are enough to justify me pulling the trigger on some guy waving a milkshake at me. Not legally and not ethically. If that person in front of me made some sort of threat that might change things...
 
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I get what you're saying but I wouldn't want to have that argument alone stand between me and a jail cell.
I believe death would be preferable to prison.

I don't think internet threats by other people are enough to justify me pulling the trigger on some guy waving a milkshake at me. Not legally and not ethically.
Emphasis mine. Internet threats do not meet the AOJ standard for lethal force. The context of the accompanying actions is what makes "waving a milkshake" a threat or not. Have they made a verbal threat to cause grave bodily harm such as blindness? Have other people around you been assaulted with something more potent? quickcrete becomes rocks and is caustic. Is it acid or highly alkaline? Just standing there waving an object doesn't constitute a threat, but that's not what they're doing.

The standard is are they doing something, right there, right then, that the proverbial reasonable person would believe it constitutes a threat.

Back when Obummer held his convention in Chatlotte, the local sheriff deputy who had a side job of mowing lawns, including mine, got sent down there as a guard. He said that "protestors" we're throwing bags of piss at them, which could be infected with hepatitis or any number of diseases or contaminants making that a threat that justified lethal force in response.
 
Everyone is missing the obvious solution...

72769779-no-drinks-symbol-on-white-background-vector-illustration-.jpg
 
I will stay away, unless they come looking for me. Then they are the ones that will need to make a decision.
 
How does the quickcrete cause injury?



I, personally, dont plan to be anywhere near an Antifa rally. I dont protest - I did it once and realized it was a waste of my time.
Im not going to go protest anything, Im not going to go hold a counter-protest.
I wont be around these folks.
IF I am, and, I do go to cities from time to time - I'll be in Toronto soon - me and my friend are wise enough to just exit situation, not get caught up in anything or with anyone.

To @Button Pusher post with the videographer - Im curious what video was shown to the judge. It states that there was video of him being surrounded, pushed (assault), and threatened to be killed...but he still caught 21 charges.
 
How does the quickcrete cause injury?
I, personally, dont plan to be anywhere near an Antifa rally. I dont protest - I did it once and realized it was a waste of my time.
Im not going to go protest anything, Im not going to go hold a counter-protest.
I wont be around these folks.
IF I am, and, I do go to cities from time to time - I'll be in Toronto soon - me and my friend are wise enough to just exit situation, not get caught up in anything or with anyone.

To @Button Pusher post with the videographer - Im curious what video was shown to the judge. It states that there was video of him being surrounded, pushed (assault), and threatened to be killed...but he still caught 21 charges.

Portland cement an ingredient in the mix causes severe damage to the eyes.

Hanging anti 2nd Amendment judge, should have took a jury trial instead of bench trial.
On appeal but he can't work as part of the ruling.


 
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Why on earth don't they enact anti-masking laws at these "protests"? I just dont get it
That would cut the crowd of idiots in half at least and really cut back the violence if they couldnt wear masks and were easily identified.
 
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Thanks for the info on concrete.

Yeah, they're in Portland, which is a liberal haven (though, if Im honest, I still like the city ok - plus Leatherman is there!), but, Jesus, how can you not see (IF the evidence was there) that 1 guy felt forced to pull his weapon because he was surrounded by many assualting and threatening him
 
Why on earth don't they enact anti-masking laws at these "protests"? I just dont get it
That would cut the crowd of idiots in half at least if they couldnt wear masks and were easily identified.

Local PD doesnt seem to care.
Ive seen a lot of the Proud Boys videos, too often the cops just let these people do what they want. Including blocking traffic and FORCING people to go where THEY want them. The cops did nothing. Ridiculous
 
How does the quickcrete cause injury?

The Portland cement in this product can cause serious, potentially irreversible damage to skin, eye, respiratory and digestive tracts due to chemical (caustic) burns, including third degree burns. Burns from Portland cement may not cause immediate pain or discomfort. You cannot rely on pain to alert you to cement burns. Therefore precautions must be taken to prevent all contact with Portland cement. Cement burns can become worse even after contact has ended.

https://www.quikrete.com/pdfs/sds-c6-fast-setting-products.pdf
 
Why on earth don't they enact anti-masking laws at these "protests"? I just dont get it
That would cut the crowd of idiots in half at least and really cut back the violence if they couldnt wear masks and were easily identified.

Like the laws banning Klan hoods? That would make it look like ANTIFA was doing something wrong :rolleyes:
 
Didn’t the article say that an officer had said it, but that it hadn’t been substantiated?


Yes, I wonder of any were used.
The PD believed it enough to send out a tweet warning people of the threat. Don’t get me wrong I don’t trust law enforcement at all but it goes with past trends of Antifa using violence, getting a violent reaction, then upping the violence.
 
The PD believed it enough to send out a tweet warning people of the threat. Don’t get me wrong I don’t trust law enforcement at all but it goes with past trends of Antifa using violence, getting a violent reaction, then upping the violence.

Easy to escalate when you got 20 folks at your back urging you on

Antifa is being allowed to do, mostly, what they want.
Block streets? Cool.
Block sidewalks? "Just find another way around sir/ma'am"
Threats? Sure, we dont even want to see the video of threats...

Thankfully there have been SOME arrests here and there, but not enough, in my opinion.
 
Why on earth don't they enact anti-masking laws at these "protests"?

We shouldn't have to worry about masked people in NC. There's a law against it.
Unfortunately, the law is ignored in Charlotte and Durham etc. by protesters and law enforcement.

§ 14-12.7. Wearing of masks, hoods, etc., on public ways. No person or persons at least 16 years of age shall, while wearing any mask, hood or device whereby the person, face or voice is disguised so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, enter, be or appear upon any lane, walkway, alley, street, road, highway or other public way in this State. (1953, c. 1193, s. 6; 1983, c. 175, ss. 1, 10; c. 720, s. 4.) § 14-12.8. Wearing of masks, hoods, etc., on public property. No person or persons shall in this State, while wearing any mask, hood or device whereby the person, face or voice is disguised so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, enter, or appear upon or within the public property of any municipality or county of the State, or of the State of North Carolina. (1953, c. 1193, s. 7.) § 14-12.9. Entry, etc., upon premises of another while wearing mask, hood or other disguise. NC General Statutes - Chapter 14 Article 4A 3 No person or persons at least 16 years of age shall, while wearing a mask, hood or device whereby the person, face or voice is disguised so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, demand entrance or admission, enter or come upon or into, or be upon or in the premises, enclosure or house of any other person in any municipality or county of this State. (1953, c. 1193, s. 8; 1983, c. 175, ss. 2, 10; c. 720, s. 4.) § 14-12.10. Holding meetings or demonstrations while wearing masks, hoods, etc. No person or persons at least 16 years of age shall while wearing a mask, hood or device whereby the person, face or voice is disguised so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, hold any manner of meeting, or make any demonstration upon the private property of another unless such person or persons shall first obtain from the owner or occupier of the property his or her written permission to do so, which said written permission shall be recorded in the office of the register of deeds of the county in which said property is located before the beginning of such meeting or demonstration. (1953, c. 1193, s. 9; 1983, c. 175, ss. 3, 10; c. 720, s. 4.)
 
This is pretty funny. Turns out Antifa is just fight club for soy boys:

Gosh, now I want to organize 30 people with paintball guns to go play!
 
We're safe at Bojangles', they don't allow masks, even on Halloween.
 
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As has been stated a few times...to begin with I wouldn't volunteer to actually go. So the only way I would be around such an event is if one spontaneously erupted around a place I already was. Which considering where I spend most of my days, I highly unlikely.

IF...for some reason I walked out of a building and found myself in a sea of patchouli wearing milk shake throwers I would make as quick an exit as possible. If the roads are too crowded, I would go back inside, find an alternate exit, or just wait it out.

If I found myself, somehow, targeted then I would grab the first one that assaults me and beat him like he owes me money and he called my mom a whore. As soon as I can get away, then I will. Aint looking to be a one man army, unless that Army is French...
 
So you'd just turn it into a spree killing?:confused:

Why not? Surrounded buy dozens to hundreds of people punching, throwing rocks, hurling God knows what at you with what intent? To kill? And when when you shoot to defend yourself, your life is over. Arrested. Name and picture dragged through the mud by the leftist media. Any posting you have ever made on social media is picked through (see the irony here). Cherry picked ones used against you, of course. Would not matter it was in self defense. Loss of your job. Having to hire attorneys. Loss of your house and personal property. And then there is whatever happens to you in jail. And if, and that would be a big IF, you were found not guilty, good luck on rebuilding your life. So yeah, my mindset that has evolved over the past 10 years is just that. It's sad all across the board.
 
Why not? Surrounded buy dozens to hundreds of people punching, throwing rocks, hurling God knows what at you with what intent? To kill? And when when you shoot to defend yourself, your life is over. Arrested. Name and picture dragged through the mud by the leftist media. Any posting you have ever made on social media is picked through (see the irony here). Cherry picked ones used against you, of course. Would not matter it was in self defense. Loss of your job. Having to hire attorneys. Loss of your house and personal property. And then there is whatever happens to you in jail. And if, and that would be a big IF, you were found not guilty, good luck on rebuilding your life. So yeah, my mindset that has evolved over the past 10 years is just that. It's sad all across the board.

I think the balance is somewhere in the middle. Shoot those attacking you. But once the attack stops you have to stop shooting fleeing people. If you can prove self defense then your life may be inconvenienced for a few years with trials, but if you just start blasting everyone, even people running away who were just poop stirrers to begin with, then not only do you end up under the jail, you take the rest of us with you as you will be painted as a blood thirsty fascist who they were fully ok in attacking.


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All right now, I'm comin' out. Any man I see out there, I'm gonna shoot him. Any sumbitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife. All his friends. Burn his damn house down.
Unforgiven has always been one of my favorite movies. ;)

 
I would avoid being in a position where I needed to defend myself at all costs. That said if I found myself surrounded I would crank Reign in Blood and let the Duramax eat.
 
It is easy to say what we'd do, if we ended up, unavoidably in that kind of situation.
Nobody I know would seek out such a protest.
Try that crap in NC, even in Raleigh, j suspect the masks would get them arrested before anything could happen.
But Raleigh mayor might attempt to order a stand down.

Regardless, I would personally do my best to avoid any such situation but have a couple extra mags in case the worst happened.

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I find it interesting that we're having this conversation on the eve of celebrating Treason, Larceny, Property Damage, Tax Evasion, Smuggling, Arson, Assault, and even Killing.

I'd imagine similar such conversations were had in taverns in 1768-1783, with many a well off farmer or shopkeeper or artisan deciding to sit it out, avoid those rabble-rousers dressed as Mohawk Indians, covering their faces.

Or those tarring and feathering lawful government officials for doing their jobs.

Many probably wished the Redcoats, sent in to enforce the law, would DO something about the ne'er do Wells that were seemingly running free in the towns, ignoring the law and commands of the government and doing whatever they wanted, often with a partisan press on their sides.

History is made by those in action, not those sitting on the sidelines waiting for an Official Superman to save the day.

We're witnessing a movement that shows all the hallmarks of a nascent revolution.....
 
Why on earth don't they enact anti-masking laws at these "protests"? I just dont get it
That would cut the crowd of idiots in half at least and really cut back the violence if they couldnt wear masks and were easily identified.


Why? The masks make it easy to tell who is who and who you need to look out for.
 
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