Why concealed carriers should shoot action pistol matches

I have a buddy that plays golf like I shoot..every day. He always says he's amused at watching golf on TV. The Common Taters always talk about "stress" and "pressure". My Pard says" there ain't never gonna be No pressure putting for A million to win, til somma them assholes have to Put up a million that they can make that shot. THEN you got some Pressure".

Lee Treveno said concerning pressure....I'll tell you what pressure is..pressure is playing for $50 a hole and you ain't got but $10 in your damn pocket!

Good point...the real pressure comes when there are consequences. I can't say I have ever had "adrenaline kick in" at a pistol match. If I ever run across a match where I get tunnel vision, cant breathe, and forget how to talk I will admit I was wrong.

Your $1000/300 round 1911 challenge might have been better practice shooting under pressure than a pistol match.
 
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We walk through the stages for several minutes before shooting them. We spend more time memorizing the targets than we do actually shooting at them, there are no surprise targets. You did know that right?

If participating in a match is all you can do and that works for you then that is great...but let's not elevate it to something it isn't...that is even more silly.

Because your experience with all shooting competitions is the same as everyone else? Sometimes there are surprise targets. Sometimes you have blind stages. No one is elevating anything to what they aren't. There is absolutely nothing that can possibly get people even close to 100% ready for a two way rifle range. No one in here has even come close to stating that is the intention. Just that shooting competitions is beneficial because it gets people to shoot out of their comfort zone.

No one, not one person, has yet to even get close to say that participating in a match is "all one can do". It is a small part of many different things people can do. No one is elevating it to anything.
 
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Because your experience with all shooting competitions is the same as everyone else? Sometimes there are surprise targets. Sometimes you have blind stages. No one is elevating anything to what they aren't. There is absolutely nothing that can possibly get people even close to 100% ready for a two way rifle range. No one in here has even come close to stating that is the intention. Just that shooting competitions is beneficial because it gets people to shoot out of their comfort zone.

No one, not one person, has yet to even get close to say that participating in a match is "all one can do". It is a small part of many different things people can do. No one is elevating it to anything.

No, because blind stages are unheard of in USPSA and specifically prohibited in IDPA...that is most of the matches you will find. So there will be no great unknown as compared to setting up your own targets/stages.

What does a two way rifle range have to do with concealed carry? There are many things that can prepare people better than 2 minutes of shooting at a match once a week, that was my point. You would probably find it less silly if you actually shot matches or took training to have some basis of comparison to back up these theories that you post.
 
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If no, WTF is this site for then, and the internet as a whole?

For me the site is about learning, sharing info etc... not about being right on every topic. Oh I get it that people love to argue but it is really funny how worked up everyone gets over the same topic over and over again.
 
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Just that shooting competitions is beneficial because it gets people to shoot out of their comfort zone.
Exactly why I did it! I wanted to see what I could do in a completely different situation from the usual indoor range day, as a pretty new shooter, never even having seen a match in person. It was an eye-opener....and I was horrible at it! LoL. But I finished the match, and the next time I did much better. I got to see how the really good shooters do it. Maybe one day I can get even a tenth as good as they are. I do it to learn how to do it.
 
No, because blind stages are unheard of in USPSA and specifically prohibited in IDPA...that is most of the matches you will find. So there will be no great unknown as compared to setting up your own targets/stages.

What does a two way rifle range have to do with concealed carry? There are many things that can prepare people better than 2 minutes of shooting at a match once a week, that was my point. You would probably find it less silly if you actually shot matches or took training to have some basis of comparison to back up these theories that you post.

Nowhere has anyone specified we were discussing only USPSA and IDPA. And yes, there are blind stages at other events. Many of them I have shot in .

"Two way rifle range" is a manner of speech for when targets shoot back. You are being obtuse here for sake of snark.

And your point that "There are many things that can prepare people better" is completely your opinion. And again, no one here has yet to even get close to implying that competition shooting is the best way to prepare. Again, being obtuse for the sake of it.

You are making a vain attempt to paint this thread as people trying to claim that shooting matches is the ultimate level in training. Literally no one is saying that.

Your last comment about me actually shooting matches is completely asinine because I have, do, and will continue to do so. So my theories are based in experience. Experience, that unlike you, I am not trying to apply as the standard for anyone else.
 
No, because blind stages are unheard of in USPSA and specifically prohibited in IDPA...that is most of the matches you will find. So there will be no great unknown as compared to setting up your own targets/stages.

What does a two way rifle range have to do with concealed carry? There are many things that can prepare people better than 2 minutes of shooting at a match once a week, that was my point. You would probably find it less silly if you actually shot matches or took training to have some basis of comparison to back up these theories that you post.

Did you read the part when i typed "lost souls"? Thanks for driving that point home ;)
 
Did you read the part when i typed "lost souls"? Thanks for driving that point home ;)

Yeah, I had a good laugh at your post too.

So let me ask you, if this comment you made is true "Match shooting is the best testing grounds for mental and physical ability while holding a firearm in one's hands." then what exactly is it that you are selling people? You can't find a way to test people physically or mentally more than an IDPA, USPSA, or 3 gun match in your training? Booger's outlaw surprise target matches aside for the moment.

I shake my head when I read that competition is not "real" or equal to a "gunfight", or whatever excuse anyone can place on the activity of match shooting. The people with this mindset are best left alone, if not you must love wasting your time on dead-end souls. Let these people stay lost. Any activity that one can do at any level of ability, is 100% better than no activity at all. One can attend every class in the world, what happens when you remove the guidance of a trainer? How do you perform? That's what real practice and competition bring to the table.

As I get older my give a damn about peoples status and interest in activities I enjoy is less and less, I really do not want to openly share my experience or knowledge with just anyone anymore. I only want to help people who I respect. My respect is given to anyone who cares enough to actively seek self-improvement, not read about it, or talk about it.

Match shooting is the best testing grounds for mental and physical ability while holding a firearm in one's hands. I say this because every time you win or fail you learn something and go home. In a gunfight, you only walk away if you win, not much to learn beyond I survived. The odds of winning are not high if you have never been tested on critical skills. Match shooting tests you on near same critical skills.

Keep in mind a "gunfight" is a two-way range, a "shooting" is a one-way range. I do not prepare myself for a simple "shooting", unskilled people of all ages survive, it takes skill, ability and mindset to win a gunfight. Matches offer the best option to develop and hone the skills needed.
 
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Yeah, I had a good laugh at your post too.

So let me ask you, if this comment you made is true "Match shooting is the best testing grounds for mental and physical ability while holding a firearm in one's hands." then what exactly is it that you are selling people? You can't find a way to test people physically or mentally more than an IDPA, USPSA, or 3 gun match in your training? Booger's outlaw surprise target matches aside for the moment.

This will be rich...now you are really digging deep to try to debunk the beneficial nature of match shooting. John doesn't "test" people...he trains people. The people he trains then turn around and "test" themselves. John happens to believe that match shooting is the best.

This is only a difficult concept to understand if you are intentionally refusing to accept that for some people performing in matches is a wonderful way to practice and train.
 
This will be rich...now you are really digging deep to try to debunk the beneficial nature of match shooting. John doesn't "test" people...he trains people. The people he trains then turn around and "test" themselves. John happens to believe that match shooting is the best.

This is only a difficult concept to understand if you are intentionally refusing to accept that for some people performing in matches is a wonderful way to practice and train.

I accept that it is beneficial for some people and said so...you even quoted it. I simply said that I have found more productive ways train than spending 4 hours at a match to shoot 2 minutes. You said that was silly...so here we are.

But I still shoot matches.

I am just passing on what has been proven to me by many qualified trainers. I can see why some people "would" shoot matches but most experts (actually, all of the ones that are experts) will plainly say you "should" find better training for self defense if that is your goal. Good training will be far more beneficial than a year's worth of matches and good training will also test your limits. Very little of what you do at the match is good practice for self defense.

This is only difficult to understand if you have never had good training...or you could be the try hard funny guy who knows nothing about everything.
 
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I accept that it is beneficial for some people and said so...you even quoted it. I simply said that I have found more productive ways train than spending 4 hours at a match to shoot 2 minutes. You said that was silly...so here we are.

But I still shoot matches.

I am just passing on what has been proven to me by many qualified trainers. I can see why some people "would" shoot matches but most experts (actually, all of the ones that are experts) will plainly say you "should" find better training for self defense if that is your goal. Good training will be far more beneficial than a year's worth of matches and good training will also test your limits. Very little of what you do at the match is good practice for self defense.

This is only difficult to understand if you have never had good training.

Sure thing. Was nice going down this rabbit hole with you. Enjoy your weekend.


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This dude has a good way of looking at it. And, although he's not a steely-eyed-internet-super-badass like the dudes on my ignore list, he spells it out nicely.
The Mindset/Shooting skills/Tactics triangle is a smart way to look at it.

 
I accept that it is beneficial for some people and said so...you even quoted it. I simply said that I have found more productive ways train than spending 4 hours at a match to shoot 2 minutes. You said that was silly...so here we are.

But I still shoot matches.

I am just passing on what has been proven to me by many qualified trainers. I can see why some people "would" shoot matches but most experts (actually, all of the ones that are experts) will plainly say you "should" find better training for self defense if that is your goal. Good training will be far more beneficial than a year's worth of matches and good training will also test your limits. Very little of what you do at the match is good practice for self defense.

This is only difficult to understand if you have never had good training...or you could be the try hard funny guy who knows nothing about everything.
I for one would like to hear about the training regimens that you use. I shoot competitions every weekend and I’m a decent competitor but I have never had any training in defensive scenarios.
 
I have found more productive ways train than spending 4 hours at a match to shoot 2 minutes.


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For the other 238 minutes, I generally try my best to learn from others mistakes and successes. Throw ideas around with fellow shooters. With the occasional trash talk thrown in
 
For the other 238 minutes, I generally try my best to learn from others mistakes and successes. Throw ideas around with fellow shooters. With the occasional trash talk thrown in

And I am not saying anything is wrong with that but time was brought up as a concern in the thread and I like to to make good use of my time also. It isn't a geometry problem...the basic math is if you have 4 hours a weekend to devote to improving/testing your abilities...the 100 minutes of gun/activity time you get at the match for a year is not going to be better than the potential 12,000 minutes of activity/gun time you can get by devoting most of the 4 hours to practice/drills/"tests". Also, being able to run stages multiple times under the clock lets you try different things and typically you don't get that opportunity at the match. We usually have multiple people so there is no lack of feedback or competition.

Like I said, I do matches and am not saying there isn't any value for the average concealed carry person, but I don't think they are the most efficient use of time especially if limited time is a concern and I think the value of the "pressure" of the match is being exaggerated a bit.
 
I for one would like to hear about the training regimens that you use. I shoot competitions every weekend and I’m a decent competitor but I have never had any training in defensive scenarios.

Outside of specific match practice, we do a lot of stages/scenarios to emphasize the use of cover for shooting and reloads, shooting multiple attackers while retreating to cover, shooting from retention, and shooting from awkward positions as if you had been knocked down or caught loading your trunk and other day to day stuff. We sometimes use USPSA classifier stages but approach them from a defensive mindset vs gamer mindset and compare both results. We use airsoft on occasion. A lot of what we do is based on prior training. Wilson, Hackathorn, and others have some good drills to practice on the clock. Another thing we are able to do to better simulate the stress response is run several times around the range or do push ups to get winded prior to shooting a stage.

It helps to reinforce that I probably shouldn't be doing a spin draw from the surrender position or that it would probably be best to be wearing my spare gun when my primary gun is unloaded on the table (even though I practice those for matches as well). Instead of triangles, I like to think of it like a different activity. Just like your athletic ability in football can help you in basketball, you play them differently. Similarly, your basic skills can help you with both competition and self defense...but in one you run full speed forward and stick your face in a porthole and the other one you don't (one example).
 
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Outside of specific match practice, we do a lot of stages/scenarios to emphasize the use of cover for shooting and reloads, shooting multiple attackers while retreating to cover, shooting from retention, and shooting from awkward positions as if you had been knocked down or caught loading your trunk and other day to day stuff. We sometimes use USPSA classifier stages but approach them from a defensive mindset vs gamer mindset and compare both results. We use airsoft on occasion. A lot of what we do is based on prior training. Wilson, Hackathorn, and others have some good drills to practice on the clock. Another thing we are able to do to better simulate the stress response is run several times around the range or do push ups to get winded prior to shooting a stage.

It helps to reinforce that I probably shouldn't be doing a spin draw from the surrender position or that it would probably be best to be wearing my spare gun when my primary gun is unloaded on the table (even though I practice those for matches as well). Instead of triangles, I like to think of it like a different activity. Just like your athletic ability in football can help you in basketball, you play them differently. Similarly, your basic skills can help you with both competition and self defense...but in one you run full speed forward and stick your face in a porthole and the other one you don't (one example).
Thanks
 
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I have found there are two basic types that like to claim that competition shooting is somehow a bad thing. Those that cannot hack it or have had their backsides handed to them in a match and those that have training to sell.
 
I have found there are two basic types that like to claim that competition shooting is somehow a bad thing. Those that cannot hack it or have had their backsides handed to them in a match and those that have training to sell.

Well, not all of us that offer training to sell. ;)
 
I have seen some paid trainers competing at matches.
I've shot against one of my trainers (who was a super secret killer for the .gov) in a couple of matches. Bastards beats me every time. Guess that's why I pay him and not the other way around.
 
Sheesh, go to any match around here and it's packed with killers from Bragg.
3gun around here should be called "Green Berets having fun on Saturday Match".

Somebody needs to tell them they are doing it wrong and this is going to get them keeeled in the sand.
 
Sheesh, go to any match around here and it's packed with killers from Bragg.
3gun around here should be called "Green Berets having fun on Saturday Match".

Somebody needs to tell them they are doing it wrong and this is going to get them keeeled in the sand.



Like some of these guys??? lol

BS 1 - Copy.jpg

BS 2.jpg
 
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