Dayton, OH Mass shooting, nine dead

Hmmm ... you gotta wonder like CD said above ... copycat ... If El Paso guy can do it I wonder if I can score more? type thinking by this idiot. Did he watch 12 plus hours of continuous media coverage and then go off? The details of this one will be interesting ... ear protection is mentioned so any other little extras like maybe a note or such.
 
From the TX photo and the OH description, my paranoid mind can't help but think that this could be an 'antifa' strategy. (And it might be a 'good' one.)

Now, you ain't saying that someone like a George Soros is having a few of his "useful idiots" pull some events like that so an assault weapons, high cap mag, certain ammo, body armor ban is implemented so when the election is stolen in 2020, his puppet and the rest of Congress can impose Draconian laws to render the populace helpless now are you?? Why, that would be impossible. Because some other puppet would have spent at least 8 years building a shadow government in the FBI, AFT, CIA, and son on. Naw. Could never happen.
 
I truly believe this time they will pass either all out AWB ban or something very restrictive. Senate republicans will cave in a heart beat. And this will not solve the problem one bit.
 
We have a societal/cultural problem and there is very little respect of each other.
 
And couple in the fact that this is the second time that the whole "law enforcement was there in less that a minute", so you don't need a gun is being pushed. What's next, some bs about the shooters firearm being taken away, via Hollywood karate style moves by an unarmed citizen and being shot with his weapon??
 
No doubt that things like @JBoyette and @GeorgeBush say are true and very much st the heart of what is going wrong. I think it’s bigger than that, though, and includes the demise of the family unit and by extension the local community. Yes, the internet and social media have expanded the size of the community in which people are able to interact to unprecedented levels while simultaneously anonymizing the interaction. Conventional social norms and customs aren’t up to dealing with this.

Economics, the demise of a manufacturing based economy and off shoring gave way to the “latch key kid” of the 80s. As one born in 71, I saw the transition and both sides of it as my mother went to work when I was 15 and the home dynamic was forever altered.

Now, It’s even worse. Debt laden, put everyone through the grinder on the path towards an overpriced college degree, give them a participation trophy and send them on if necessary. Is it not obvious where this will go? Couple that with the importation of low IQ, low skill, low education foreigners which will further push down the prospects for a solid life while dramatically altering the culture that made America what it was and not Nicaragua.

It’s going to get worse before it gets better. The only way forward is down the rabbit hole. Voting harder for the stinking Republican fap offs isn’t going to bring the good old days back. We’re going to have to rebuild a solid society from the ground up, not the top down, and that will likely require getting rid of a lot of the current top heavy weight.
 
I truly believe this time they will pass either all out AWB ban or something very restrictive. Senate republicans will cave in a heart beat. And this will not solve the problem one bit.
And we can thank all those “gosh darn” closet republicans, because they’re better than a democrat. o_O
 
Any other options, that will work? I'm open.
At the ballot box, no. Liberty hasn’t been an option for a while. The time to change that would have been years ago, but then those elections were just too important.

(Speaking to the general audience, not you specifically) Now, just don’t stand there surprised when your precious republicans that you voted for while holding your hand over your heart swelling with pride because you did your duty for God and country screw you again. Because you know those Republicans are going to get in there and ban abortion and what not.... look where it got you: foreign wars, and an unstable fiat economy, abortion still exists, and now you’re afraid they’ll cave on guns. Why the hell not, they’ve lied about everything else they stood for.

We ain’t voting ourselves out of this mess.
 
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I am just a wee bit suspicious about the fact that, with very few exceptions, our mass shootings have been committed by individuals... early reports will say that there was more than one shooter, but before the day is done, and before the investigation even begins, we are told that it was a single individual, and he's now dead.
Question is why are people shooting people like this? Semi auto guns have been available since the 1890s. Kids used to take guns to school without issues. What has changed? Society has changed. Assisted suicide, abortion, break down of families, knowing and being taught right or wrong. Hollywood with their blood and guts movies, video games with high kill scores. Pushing God out of society. Society as a whole has changed and they don't care for our fellowman.

CD
He mentioned call of duty in the el paso shooting in his manifesto.
 
Question is why are people shooting people like this? Semi auto guns have been available since the 1890s. Kids used to take guns to school without issues. What has changed? Society has changed. Assisted suicide, abortion, break down of families, knowing and being taught right or wrong. Hollywood with their blood and guts movies, video games with high kill scores. Pushing God out of society. Society as a whole has changed and they don't care for our fellowman.

CD

Any number of things, I have a viewpoint that most aren't going to agree with, its not a gun problem, nor is it a mental health problem.

It's a media problem compounded by a group of individuals who have a distorted sense of reality and perception.

The other factor is the term "mass shooting", these events are in reality "public suicides with mass killings". Most of the other events are familicide or felony killings.

Fridel-cover-ILLO-1.jpg
You can seek out that document if you are so inclined.

The demographics of the shooters are most often identify them as white males however the immigrant population accounts for a high percentage based on their population in the country (Pulse night club, UVA, San Bernardino were all immigrants)
Fridel-table-ILLO-2-1024x799.png

What is consistent is the fact that most of these people are reclusive loners with multiple life failures or feel they have been"wronged by society or a specific demographic".
They probably not been successful at anything in their life, spend most of the time on the internet talking with people who have similar views or playing video games (it's not the violent videos games either) they would have been otherwise isolated or outcast from society and are feed a narrative by the media. They are successful in their minds playing the games and the feedback from the game or other players is a huge boost to their psyche. They believe that these acts give them a sense of purpose and meaning and have a distorted sense of reality and perception and probably have sensory processing issues, hence the wearing of hearing protection.

I would argue that most of them are depressed, despondent and isolated, they're probably suicidal(but lack the willingness to actually commit suicide), the copycats and subsequent acts that follow one event are likely the motivation that they need to act or they want to "be more famous than the last guy".

When I say they don't have a mental health problem these people are not diagnosed is having bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or the other traditional mental health illnesses, probably more likely to have some form of high functioning Asperger's, ADD, OCD, or other diagnosis that makes it difficult for them to understand or interact with society, they probably have been seen by the mental health system, however this is not a person who is hearing voices and being told to shoot up the Walmart.

If you want to decrease the number of events, stop talking about it 24/7 online and on TV, don't mention the shooters name, and replace the narrative with "if you go to try and shoot up a public place, you'll most likely be killed before you succeed".

I'll stop before I write a essay.
 
Any number of things, I have a viewpoint that most aren't going to agree with, its not a gun problem, nor is it a mental health problem.

It's a media problem compounded by a group of individuals who have a distorted sense of reality and perception.

The other factor is the term "mass shooting", these events are in reality "public suicides with mass killings". Most of the other events are familicide or felony killings.

View attachment 143413
You can seek out that document if you are so inclined.

The demographics of the shooters are most often identify them as white males however the immigrant population accounts for a high percentage based on their population in the country (Pulse night club, UVA, San Bernardino were all immigrants)
View attachment 143414

What is consistent is the fact that most of these people are reclusive loners with multiple life failures or feel they have been"wronged by society or a specific demographic".
They probably not been successful at anything in their life, spend most of the time on the internet talking with people who have similar views or playing video games (it's not the violent videos games either) they would have been otherwise isolated or outcast from society and are feed a narrative by the media. They are successful in their minds playing the games and the feedback from the game or other players is a huge boost to their psyche. They believe that these acts give them a sense of purpose and meaning and have a distorted sense of reality and perception and probably have sensory processing issues, hence the wearing of hearing protection.

I would argue that most of them are depressed, despondent and isolated, they're probably suicidal(but lack the willingness to actually commit suicide), the copycats and subsequent acts that follow one event are likely the motivation that they need to act or they want to "be more famous than the last guy".

When I say they don't have a mental health problem these people are not diagnosed is having bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or the other traditional mental health illnesses, probably more likely to have some form of high functioning Asperger's, ADD, OCD, or other diagnosis that makes it difficult for them to understand or interact with society, they probably have been seen by the mental health system, however this is not a person who is hearing voices and being told to shoot up the Walmart.

If you want to decrease the number of events, stop talking about it 24/7 online and on TV, don't mention the shooters name, and replace the narrative with "if you go to try and shoot up a public place, you'll most likely be killed before you succeed".

I'll stop before I write a essay.

You might be right on some of them like the Garlic shooter. El Paso he allowed himself to be captured.

CD
 
You might be right on some of them like the Garlic shooter. El Paso he allowed himself to be captured.

CD

Some of them want to kill as many people as possible, however others feel that if they surrender they'll have their day and be able to further perpetuate their narrative such as Aurora, CO. I'd also hypothesize a certain number of them get scared and give up or simply want an assisted suicide.
These people rarely get into a protracted gunbattle with law enforcement, they hole up and kill themselves.
 
Question is why are people shooting people like this? Semi auto guns have been available since the 1890s. Kids used to take guns to school without issues. What has changed? Society has changed. Assisted suicide, abortion, break down of families, knowing and being taught right or wrong. Hollywood with their blood and guts movies, video games with high kill scores. Pushing God out of society. Society as a whole has changed and they don't care for our fellowman.

CD

Psychotropic drugs fed to school kids like candy. Hyper social hierarchy due to "social media" on the internet. Lack of hope for a meaningful job in the future. Invasion of foreigners taking what jobs are left. Divorce and other factors leaving fatherless homes and lack of discipline. Even if both parents are in the home they are both likely working and leaving junior to be influenced by unhealthy things and people.

Solving these issues my not yield total success, but would certainly make a lot of progress.
 
They closed down all the mental institutions.

Probably not so much.
The vast majority probably would have not been institutionalized, if institutions were still available, one could argue however they tie up the mental health system, these are the kids that mommy and daddy haul off to see the psychiatrist because they don't have a any friends, they can't get along with anyone in school and generally "have trouble fitting in".
 
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What changed was the Internet; it was fledgling when Columbine happened but Harris was already in contact with nutbags and supposedly making Doom levels that represented real-life places he hated.

The sudden frequency and severity of modern shootings coincides with the explosion of social media and celebrity super-villian status / coverage. I've said it many times that social media was the end of the world. It's just a much slower sickening end than a nuke or plague would be.

Out of all the reasons that people have postulated for what is causing the mass shooting, this has the most resonance with my thinking. Pre-internet there was very little places that these deranged individuals could go and have their feelings/views confirmed by others. If they talked to "Betty" and "Bob" next door, they would have been admonished the these views. Nowadays they can go to any number of forums, reddits, or other social media types and talk to people of like mind and be riled into action.

Another thing that I think may be the cause is the media and politicians. Sitting and thinking about the state of journalism and politics . in my youth (70's and 80's), I do not recall the rancor that exists in them today. You had the news, and by most parts it was relatively on the same page and there was not the blatant name calling that exists today. Now, the biased and prejudiced reporting (mostly on the left) and the politicians name calling whole classes of people (again, mostly on the left as Trump is a little more focused on his name calling), has inflamed the discourse in today's society.

I have scanned the supposed El Paso's shooters manifesto, and while some of his comments are out in left field, others regarding the effects of illegal immigration are spot on and have been echoed on this forum. But if you express these points on news media forums such as CNN, MSNBC, and even on Fox, you are labeled a racist and there is no opportunity for civil and rational discourse. In fact, it is not even posters on these outlets that demonize you for expressing your opinion, but the journalists and politicians themselves that scream from the highest mountain that you are racist and a nazi and are not entitled to hold such a position.
 
...and they turned prisons into resorts.

edit: Responding to the comment about closing mental institutions.
 
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Psychotropic drugs fed to school kids like candy.

The concept of giving psychoactive and psychotropic medications to children and adolescents whose brains aren't fully developed is a very interesting topic.
 
9 hours and no info on the shooter?

Yeah probably because he isn't the magically perfect 4chan / 8chan white psycho that the left thinks we all are.

For more on this phenomenon please see the garlic festival shooter.
 
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OK then, what do you suggest?
There really isn't much new to add that hasn't been said already, but I will consolidate some of the things that have been said in this and other threads. Hopefully that will paint a picture of where we are, where we are going, and what I see we can do abou it.

Several times I have mentioned in threads the theory called 4th turning. In essence the theory says that society goes through cycles of secular and spiritual highs and lows. Without going too deep into the theory, according to it's pattern which is demonstratable by history, we are at a secular low and rapidly approaching an inflection point where things in socity must and will change. Whether that change will be for the better or worse remains to be determined. Per the theory we are rapidly approaching the time when we can expect a crisis climax. What form will it take? Still remains to be seen, but the way things are shaping up, there are a few likely possibilities: a mass shooting resulting in a massive clamp down on civil rights, a contested election with obvious corruption, a viral disease outbreak caused by the influx of vagrants from 3rd world countries, a foreign war - eg China - Hong Kong. The point being that it will be started by an event that in other times would have had a different outcome, e.g. 'assault weapon ban' of the 90s - a third turning.

Secondly, recognize that there may not be a political solution on the table. If we wanted a political solution we would have had to start pushing for it decades ago. We now have the results of past choices. It's called karma. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be availing ourselves of all possible solutions, including voting, but you need to make a choice of what you're voting for and accept what that will get you. Both R's and D's have shown their colors and I would be surprised if many here can actually say they approve of what the R's (or D's) have done.

Third is prepare. Prepare yoursel physically, financially, and mentally. Be prepared to go through periods of shortages of food and other resources. Be prepared to have periods where your income is disrupted. Be prepared to protect yourself and your family because violence can strike you anywhere, at any time. Prepare yourself spiritually and mentally and decide where your own line in the sand is and what it would take for you to get off the couch. Decide for yourself at what point is action justififed. Decide to what extent you are willing to allow the politicians and the legal machine to dicate you.

Fourth, be prepared to resist. Resist vocally. Protest, vote, organize. This is the first box - the soap box. Work at the local level where you will have far more effect than at the national level. Continue to vote - the 2nd box (ballot). If for no other reason vote because it continues the chain of morality and it will be necessary to win the moral war. Join groups, like GRNC, the 2nd Amendment Foundation, and the GOA. They will be the ones that bring lawsuits - the third box - jury. Spend some dollars; it's still cheap compared to the other alternatives. This is the time to prepare by stocking up on supplies. Buy guns, buy ammo now. Especially if you can buy some off the record of the 4473 and squirrel them away. Yes, I do believe that if it's time to bury them it is time to put them to use. This is where the 4th box comes into play. This is the hardest part for it means that the alternatives have failed, but guess what - it isn't the first time that has happened and it won't be the last. The politicians MUST be made to understand that violence is not off the table and compliance is not guaranteed.

Edit to add: We have communism on our doorstep. There is no illusion about it. The communists want you disarmed. It's been demonstrated in many other countries throughout history. They have demonstrated what they will do if you are disarmed. Do NOT allow it to happen.
End edit.

In preparation for that day, build your proverbial tribe. Get to know your neighbors. Make plans to be in a safe location. Build your community. Largely what happens at this point is conversations for the proverbial meat space and not the subject for areas like this.

In summary, though it may not be a satisfactory answer to your question, but the truth is there may not be an easy satisfying answer. We're at the precipice of things changing. As a line in a popular show said, "Brace yourself, Winter is coming". The long summer is over. It's mid to late fall now.
 
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Out of all the reasons that people have postulated for what is causing the mass shooting, this has the most resonance with my thinking. Pre-internet there was very little places that these deranged individuals could go and have their feelings/views confirmed by others. If they talked to "Betty" and "Bob" next door, they would have been admonished the these views. Nowadays they can go to any number of forums, reddits, or other social media types and talk to people of like mind and be riled into action.

Another thing that I think may be the cause is the media and politicians. Sitting and thinking about the state of journalism and politics . in my youth (70's and 80's), I do not recall the rancor that exists in them today. You had the news, and by most parts it was relatively on the same page and there was not the blatant name calling that exists today. Now, the biased and prejudiced reporting (mostly on the left) and the politicians name calling whole classes of people (again, mostly on the left as Trump is a little more focused on his name calling), has inflamed the discourse in today's society.

I have scanned the supposed El Paso's shooters manifesto, and while some of his comments are out in left field, others regarding the effects of illegal immigration are spot on and have been echoed on this forum. But if you express these points on news media forums such as CNN, MSNBC, and even on Fox, you are labeled a racist and there is no opportunity for civil and rational discourse. In fact, it is not even posters on these outlets that demonize you for expressing your opinion, but the journalists and politicians themselves that scream from the highest mountain that you are racist and a nazi and are not entitled to hold such a position.

I want to point out that in your childhood you did not notice the news bias because you were a child, not that news has changed. The best example i can give was Walter Cronkite and the Ted Offensive. If you study the war, we know that when he declared the war was lost. After that, it was in the eyes of the American public.

The reason the news is what it is, is because people watch and they sell ad slots. If we quit watching, TV news will change.

I agree on the internet aspect fully. I would challenge anyone to guard ones words and actions. They have meaning.

My takeaway is to be more engaged with my community and the children around me.

As to your illegal immigration post. Look if a American is in economic competition with a illegal immigrant, they not the illegal f&+ked up with one's career choices and professional development in this country. Period

John
 
I have thought from the outset that this was the path of conquest. City by County by State. I could be wrong [?] but with my state's history it won't go down that road or at least it will be one of the last. As our Senator said "We can incentavise the states to do this". That means punish if they don't.
Gonna be interesting. It looks like I might get to participate yet.

Politicians are craven individuals who will always take the path of least resistance to keep their seats of power. When the screams of the howler monkeys get loud enough even the most reluctant will simply remain silent and not resist the actions of the ones who demand greater restrictions on gun ownership.

I used to see a nationwide ban on certain guns and hi cap magazines as unworkable due to the "takings" clause of the 5th amendment, considering the high cost of paying for all of them in some sort of a national "buy back" program. But New Zealand has opened that door possibly. They published a list of guns and parts with prices for each that the government was willing to pay. From the cries of foul from some New Zealanders now, it appears there might have been some "prices subject to change without notice" fine print that was overlooked. And I can see our government doing the same thing, making promises they don't intend to keep just to get more restrictive laws passed.

I see a 1994 AWB redux coming to pass. If not as an immediate result of the CA and TX and OH shootings of the last 6 days then simply as an eventuality. And many of the 1994 players are still there - Feinstein, Pelosi, Schumer. They see the grandfathering of hi cap magazines (and hi caps are a HUGE talking point now, have been for some time) as a mistake that was made back then and will not be made again. I predict that eventually possession of a mag capable of holding more than 10 rounds will be a federal felony........ period. Modify them permanently, destroy them, turn them in, or get arrested...... those will be your choices. Many states have already taken this approach.

As for "assault weapons" themselves, I am less certain. A national buy back program could be undertaken or they could simply grandfather in those guns already possessed . But future sales, I expect, would be banned just like in '94. They would go with the more restrictive "more than 1 banned feature is prohibited" approach as NY did in 2012. Same as with mags --- face felony arrest if you don't turn them in or modify them (buy stock in Thorsden Customs).

The howler monkeys are howling, boys, and the politicians are listening. More restrictions will come to pass, mark my words.
 
Existing ones were grandfathered and legal to possess and sell without restriction. Manufacture and sale of new ones was for export, LE, and military only. The newly manufactured mags had to have the date of manufacture and an LE/military only stamp out on them. You still see such mags around today.
thank you for this information
 
They could only ban the import and sale of mags after a certain date. I.E., no more to be bought/sold after such and such date. Same with the evil "assault" rifles. And then they could pull the "register" what you have now to be legal in the grandfather bs.
As I said to Cub, thank you, I didnt know how it worked then
 
I predict that eventually possession of a mag capable of holding more than 10 rounds will be a federal felony........ period. Modify them permanently, destroy them, turn them in, or get arrested...... those will be your choices. Many states have already taken this approach.
There are more choices. I’ll leave them as an exercise for our dear readers.

As far as your “buyback”. No, that is not possible. They can’t buy back what they never owned. Govco has played fast and loose with taking people’s property under the guise of due process, compensation, and for the greater good. Unfortunately been a little to successful at it. I suspect when it comes to guns, which for many is a symbol of things far greater, they won’t be so successful.

Like I said, the communists have demonstrated what they do once they’ve disarmed the populace. The answer is no.
 
3 In one week with 2 within 24 hours? All young white guys with "assault" rifles and 2 of them (so far) with "white supremacist manifestos?" 1 Is a lone nut, 2 is a copycat, 3 is a planned & coordinated effort. I smell ANTIFA.

Terry
 
3 In one week with 2 within 24 hours? All young white guys with "assault" rifles and 2 of them (so far) with "white supremacist manifestos?" 1 Is a lone nut, 2 is a copycat, 3 is a planned & coordinated effort. I smell ANTIFA.

Terry

Wouldn’t be shocking. Getting Trump to approve a huge new gun law would be a great way to get one of the Dem Marxists into the White House.
 
A sad possibility ... a witness is saying that a guy grabbed the barrel of the shooter’s rifle (mag change maybe?) and was trying to stop him but the shooter pulled a handgun and shot that person trying to stop him. Supposedly that was right when the LEO’s rolled up.
 
We've had violent movies for decades, as well as violent video games and music - that's nothing new

Yup, well the quality and Content of video games is vastly different than when you or I were younger.
There is a world of difference between the violent content of "Looney Tunes" and current contemporary movies.

Contemporary video games have become so "Realistic" that our military has adapted some for military training.
So what?
This goes toward continued playing these style games will "Desensitize" the participant and if the participant~s are juveniles and young adults playing continuous Hours of "First Person Shooter" games(?) then this time goes toward "Affecting Their overall Character" just as "Everyone Gets A Trophy" lends to even if you lose you win.




Really, all the things youre discussing arent new and, in my opinion, shouldnt be accused of bringing about these violent attacks.

For me I'm not going to say that violent movies, video games and music are solely responsible for these attacks but I am of the solid belief that this content greatly contributes to the character and mental stability especially for younger people ( 9 to 35) with no proper ZERO Point or Bearing in Life.
I fully realize that there are those that like to redefine or move a moral ZERO Point so lets look at a time when we didn't have this problem(?) 50's thru 80's.

I have also thought that maybe the video gaming industry should be sued for encouraging violence.
I believe they should be fair game ( no pun intended ) since others want to sue firearm manufactures and Big Tech and some politicians are trying to or are just limiting "Free Speech."


What is the real impact of violent video games?

While ongoing research needs to be conducted, there is now enough evidence to comfortably say that playing first-person shooters can be a hindrance to the formation and wellbeing of today’s young people.

Researchers Lavinia McLean and Mark Griffiths cataloged and reviewed numerous studies on the effects of violent gaming and concluded:

“[We] cannot ignore the comprehensive reviews that indicate violent game play has a significant effect on aggressive behavior, affect, cognition and empathyacross work conducted with over 130,000 participants … the effects have consistently been reported as significant findings with various age groups and in a number of different cultural settings.”


https://fulleryouthinstitute.org/blog/the-real-impact-of-violent-video-games
 
Or maybe we’re not supposed to see them?
The way things like the manifesto was suddenly disappearing from places like 4chan tells you that someone pulling some serious cyber strings didn’t want it getting out there.

Time to go to the dark web via Tor. A primer for those who don’t know what that means: https://www.alphr.com/technology/1002667/how-to-access-the-dark-web-what-is-tor-and-how-do-i-use-it

Edit to add @YeeHaa a college professor used to say that we are supposed to believe that violent video and game content will have little to no effect while simultaneously believe that advertising will have a dramatic effect. Which is it?
 
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