Kanye........

tanstaafl72555

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Been listening to his latest release.

Disclaimer: I am an old white guy who has very little affinity for hiphop/rap music. Not an expert. I have always thought whitebread suburban kids running around listening to songs about slinging dope, moving nines, slapping hos and mad stax were... well..... silly.
Also, Kanye is by definition a little ..... off. He may have a screw loose, but he is definitely odd, in his most sane moments.

All that said, it is hard to miss the joy and the goodness in this latest cd. Even if you don't like rap, you should listen. It is creative, different, and has what I consider to be the essence of good music, punchy lyrics (download them and listen). He is smart, incisive, witty, creative....., and just plain good.

I have been thru too many celebrity Xn spokesmen and seen too many flameouts to get all wide eyed about it. Nevertheless, I am happy for him.

What is critical here, and should interest you even ifyou have precisely ZERO interest in the king Kanye is advocating, is that this is a huge political thingey, as well. Just as the communists HATED Wycliffe Bible Translators more than any other group in Colombia... because when Indians came to the bible, they rejected the hatred, bitterness, and anger so necessary to left wing politics...... so Kanye's album is completely devoid of the call to resentment, victimhood, and appeals to ugliness that almost all "black spokespeople" advocate. Even Candace Owen (who I love) is more pissed off about the lies than she is an advocate for just living life.

I am just saying that anger burns you out inside, and hatred leaves you a shell. The real changes, if they come, are from love, goodness, and positive commitments to live life in a way that honors others, sacrifices self, honestly and consistently labors to build something good. Interestingly enough, those character qualities are what are at the core of the gospel demands, which one can see if you shut off the celebrity preachers and actually read the bible itself. The power to do so is claimed to reside in a personal awareness that you are not a hero, just another loser in need of a savior, and that that savior exists and (wonder of wonders!) wants to know you.

Kanye claims to have discovered this, and is inviting others to join that joy. Worth a listen just for that.
 
Kanye is a social icon. When someone with his influence goes in a different direction, a LOT of people take notice.
 
He’s out of his mind. And has been.

That being said, anybody that can write this lyric:

The way Kathie Lee needed Regis that's the way I need Jesus

Is worth paying some amount of attention to. :D

(That was 15 years ago, not off his new one)
 
Cool. So is he going to donate all of his future profits and royalties of his previous, not so positive music to charity?
 
No thanks. I appreciate the effort, but I respectfully decline.

I get your sentiment, but it's not a bad idea to check things out from time to time and explore.
I applaud @tanstaafl72555 for branching out a bit, and hope he'll look into the song I posted andthat more will see that not all music that's like THAT is about women, guns, drugs etc.

Another favorite of mine in the hip hop world is Jurassic 5.

They write about women, drugs, guns...but the opposite. Like, how people talk down to them because they DONT rap about that sort of stuff. They are much more fun. Had a radio/MTV hit in teh early 2000s with a song "What's Golden," but theyve done some cool work with people like Santanta, Dave Mathews etc
What's Golden


One of Them - about how they DONT do all that nonsense

 
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Let's see some fruit and I'll believe this isn't a passing fad for Kanye. Remember when Bob Dylan became a Christian? Neither does Bob Dylan.

Christianity doesn't need Kanye. And the lyrics on this album are as deep as a paper plate.

There's actual, theologically correct, God glorifying music out there that makes Kanye's stuff sound as hollow as it is.





And most of these artists give away their music for free.
 
At church today we talked about "family of one", both as a family unit and the structure of a proper family unit, and of the family unit of the church.
No where in the bible do you hear the term Catholic, Baptist(in church sense), Quaker, ect.... you hear the term the body of Christ, a lot, so if he has come to know God, and welcome him into his heart and believes that Jesus Christ died on the cross for his sins then so be it. That makes him my brother in Christ and I will pray for him.
I'm not here to judge, I dont care if you swing from the rafters, or only sing from a hymnal, we get to tied up on the past and the process, and not on the heart and the passion.
 
I shared these thoughts on Social Media directed toward believers concerning a street event with Kanye preforming that turned into worship.

I want to leave these thoughts on a current event turned into a praise and worship in the street. Who are we to judge if this man is real or not? It doesn’t matter, God uses many tools, Kanye in his own heart knows, and the Father knows, so it doesn’t matter what we think or know, he may be real in his salvation, it may be totally fake, but forget the fleshy imperfect man that is Kanye for a second, and Look at all the raised hands praising Jesus, whether Kanye is real or not, something or someone has used him. I pray that it was Jesus and that Kanye has found peace. He was once DESPISED by many of us.

“But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are DESPISED, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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I get the caution. However, I don't even want all MY words and actions to be the determinant if my faith is genuine. Witness my rxn to my heater going out on the first frost night, coupled with a wreck and a realization that I spent a bunch of money on insulation I could not use under my house.... not a pretty picture... combine that with some of my ..... "less than humble" attitudes at times and we have a real mess.

The older I get, the more I see the huge value of rejecting any pathetic claims to relative righteousness and holding on (or groping, clawing and fanatically clinging) to an alien righteousness given me as a free gift. In fact, I have learned to treat my own track record with contempt as the pile of rubbish it is. Why should we expect Kanye (or anyone else) do do differently.

For the record, I did not march down to the police station and turn in every dollar I made from dealing dope when I became a believer.

Not only Dylan, but Mel Gibson had a rather spectacular flameout. Van Morrison has become a Buddhist, and there are others. Celebrity is a curse to someone seeking God, as the two are absolutely as cross purposes. One says "I need the spotlight" and the other says "I exist to give YOU the spotlight, and my fulfillment comes in that." If I can smell the slightest odor of that, in Kanye or anyone else, I am happy for them. Let's hope it comes to be. Conversion is an event, but it is an event that is part of a process, when it is real.

For the record, and thanking @HMP for his observation about branching out....., I agree, and thank for the leads. A few folks in the past have given me some leads on hip hop artists and I am quite open mouthed in awe at their ability to translate the "stuff" of life into rhythmic. Not Christian at all, but REAL in the sense of saying what drives all of us.... purpose, anger, frustration, hope, delight, pride, despair.... etc. I dig that kind of stuff, whether it is from Chris Knight or OutKast. Thanks for the suggestions. I will give them a listen.
 
Who are we to judge if this man is real or not?
According to the bible, other believers.

Kanye is not weak or foolish, he's rich and has great influence. According to scripture, the chances of him getting into heaven are slim (Matthew 19:24). God also opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. I've never seen anything of Kanye that wasn't proud, though I hope for his sake that changes.

If you skip down in Corinthians..
"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?"
This is in the context of the local body, but the principal is universal. When you claim the name of Christ, Christ's church has every right to inspect your fruit. And when you start "preaching", or "teaching", even more so to ensure you aren't leading others astray. And if you are, then there is a duty to correct, reproof, rebuke.

It's not that Christians become perfect after conversion, but the machinations of God produce noticeable change. If Kanye's really come to Christ for salvation, there will be a noticeable change. If not, he'll continue to live like the rest of the world.
 
According to the bible, other believers.

Kanye is not weak or foolish, he's rich and has great influence. According to scripture, the chances of him getting into heaven are slim (Matthew 19:24). God also opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. I've never seen anything of Kanye that wasn't proud, though I hope for his sake that changes.

If you skip down in Corinthians..
"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?"
This is in the context of the local body, but the principal is universal. When you claim the name of Christ, Christ's church has every right to inspect your fruit. And when you start "preaching", or "teaching", even more so to ensure you aren't leading others astray. And if you are, then there is a duty to correct, reproof, rebuke.

It's not that Christians become perfect after conversion, but the machinations of God produce noticeable change. If Kanye's really come to Christ for salvation, there will be a noticeable change. If not, he'll continue to live like the rest of the world.

don't disagree with ANY of that....., I would have some questions about what standards for judgment we are called to invoke. My own experience is that we (the church) invariably wind up doing some moralistic tic chart, in which we focus on sex (selectively), using bad words, and church attendance.
I have come to the conclusion that almost none of the rubrics we use for proper determination of whether a person is regenerate are in fact biblical. The ONLY legit thing I can see is whether a person is repentant (and this means simply acknowledging an activity/behavior is wrong, accepting that this is why Christ died, accepting His righteousness to "cover" that, and trusting that this will provide the internal power to change). Vicious and very wicked patterns of behavior may take long periods of time to overcome. The second item is that the truly damning sins of pride, self sufficiency, and self determination are woven in so deeply in our hearts that we will NEVER "conquer" those in this life. We can "be conquering" as a pattern, but even that is only until God plows us up at a deeper level.

I guess it is obvious here that I am a "Calvinist" in that I believe in "total depravity" in that the sin of self determination, self rule and self exaltation are so deeply intertwined in our hearts that we will never quite get over them until we are completely remade on the final day.

Not arguing with you at all here. Just saying.
 
moralistic tic chart, in which we focus on sex (selectively), using bad words, and church attendance

The book of 1st John is essentially a list for checking your own fruit. It's a good start, but there's plenty of other examples in scripture. Not that they will all be done or kept perfectly, and not that a person wont fall into sin or be at a different place in santification, but false profession is rampant, and a person who looks like, walks like, and talks like a fallen world can be readily determined to be of the world.

For those who fall into sin, there's a process for restoration, but it involves the church body, and so if you're not a part of a church, it's not possible. Not forsaking the assembling is pretty serious fruit. When it's absent, it's pretty good evidence someone doesn't love God, because they sure don't love His bride.

We'll see what kind of fruit Kanye's growing.
 
According to the bible, other believers.

Kanye is not weak or foolish, he's rich and has great influence. According to scripture, the chances of him getting into heaven are slim (Matthew 19:24). God also opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. I've never seen anything of Kanye that wasn't proud, though I hope for his sake that changes.

If you skip down in Corinthians..
"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?"
This is in the context of the local body, but the principal is universal. When you claim the name of Christ, Christ's church has every right to inspect your fruit. And when you start "preaching", or "teaching", even more so to ensure you aren't leading others astray. And if you are, then there is a duty to correct, reproof, rebuke.

It's not that Christians become perfect after conversion, but the machinations of God produce noticeable change. If Kanye's really come to Christ for salvation, there will be a noticeable change. If not, he'll continue to live like the rest of the world.
Based on actions we can see.

I should have been more specific. Who are we to Judge the man’s heart? Only God knows if he is sincere.

The above you mentioned for “reproof, rebuke, correct” is Paul teaching to guard against false doctrine in the church. You can Judge what they teach, comparing their teachings to scripture. To guard against false doctrines and false prophets. We can take what he says and compare it to scripture.

2 Thomas 3:16
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

As for his heart and sincerity, I’ll let God be the Judge. If he’s teaching false doctrine, then he should be called out.

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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