“Americans should reasonably expect to be shot dead by police for possessing guns in their homes.”

[TripleO7]

True. But many years in EMS and being on two different LE tactical/SWAT teams has shown me that cops are distributed on a bell curve: some are truly exceptional, some are truly bad apples, but most are just folks wanting to go home at the end of the day. But those cops like you mentioned, they squeak loudest....

I hear what you're saying Chuckman, I know what it's like to be painted with a broad brush. I was a car salesman. That's how I ended up dealing with lots of LEOs. I did fleet lease and commercial sales for a Ford dealership. I can guarantee that I never tried to hurt anyone or had to lie to close a sale even though I'm sure there are a few people out there that will swear I purposely screwed them or knowingly sold them a bad car.

I know they want to go home at the end of their shift and I sincerely hope they all do. Just not at my expense. I have no choice but to be wary of any police officer. I'm basing on this some things a few told me over the years and recent experience and recent events.

Now that I EDC I drive like a granny. I have no desire to have to deal with a nervous cop along side the road.

 

[Jeppo]

Now that I EDC I drive like a granny. I have no desire to have to deal with a nervous cop along side the road.

I agree completely. Carrying has turned me into the most law abiding driver on the road. I've begun noticing people flying by me.

 

[dalek]

I'm going to park at the end of your driveway and just sit

If you do not park on his driveway naked on a unicycle, I think he'll appreciate.

 

[AR10ShooterinNC]

The more I read and hear about shit like this, I think the rank and file cops should be disarmed. We keep hearing the vast majority will never need a firearm in the performance of their duties. We hear that a lot of cops are scared for their lives and safety, if the job is that hard for you, maybe it's not the job for you.

 

[Mightyox04]

The more I read and hear about shit like this, I think the rank and file cops should be disarmed. We keep hearing the vast majority will never need a firearm in the performance of their duties. We hear that a lot of cops are scared for their lives and safety, if the job is that hard for you, maybe it's not the job for you.

And further more good law abiding citizens should also be disarmed for the same reasons. Whats the chances of you needing a gun? I mean what if you get nervous when you the average Joe pulls over a drug dealer with a trunk load of coke? You won't be needing that pistol. Wait average Joe citizens don't pull people. You don't investigate crimes you don't put your life on the line. What in the heck are you talking about? Meter maids?

 

[Jeppo]

Guys - just drive the speed limit in the LH lane. You'll be fine.

I think I'm gonna need a bigger gun.

 

[Ikarus1]

Guys - just drive the speed limit in the LH lane. You'll be fine.

 

[SPM]

And further more good law abiding citizens should also be disarmed for the same reasons. Whats the chances of you needing a gun? I mean what if you get nervous when you the average Joe pulls over a drug dealer with a trunk load of coke? You won't be needing that pistol. Wait average Joe citizens don't pull people. You don't investigate crimes you don't put your life on the line. What in the heck are you talking about? Meter maids?

Jesus.... can't we put this whole "life on the line" shit to bed? Reality doesn't support this "every day I could die" silliness that's used as justification for abuse of power. There are 13 jobs in this country with far more uncertainty about "going home at the end of the shift."

Some by exponential orders of magnitude.

In fact, it's the safest time to be a law enforcement officer since before 1900.

Meanwhile,the death toll on the population at the hands of law enforcement is nearing 20 year highs....

........even as both the general crime rate as well as the violent crime rate are at 40 year lows.

The real danger in encounters between Law Enforcement and your average Citizen is not faced by the Officer, but the Citizen being confronted by those enforcing the will of the State upon them..... precisely because of the persistent lie that police are on the front lines of a war that exists no where except inside their conditionally trained minds and ardent belief that they're all the stands between the population and the horrific chaos the pretend exists.

 

[Mightyox04]

Jesus.... can't we put this whole "life on the line" shit to bed? Reality doesn't support this "every day I could die" silliness that's used as justification for abuse of power. There are 13 jobs in this country with far more uncertainty about "going home at the end of the shift."

Some by exponential orders of magnitude.

In fact, it's the safest time to be a law enforcement officer since before 1900.

Meanwhile,the death toll on the population at the hands of law enforcement is nearing 20 year highs....

........even as both the general crime rate as well as the violent crime rate are at 40 year lows.

The real danger in encounters between Law Enforcement and your average Citizen is not faced by the Officer, but the Citizen being confronted by those enforcing the will of the State upon them..... precisely because of the persistent lie that police are on the front lines of a war that exists no where except inside their conditionally trained minds and ardent belief that they're all the stands between the population and the horrific chaos the pretend exists.

Fishermen are dying because of the weather and such. You can't shoot back at the weather. Cops should carry gun was my point. I guess you missed that. Thanks for the graphs and shit.

 

[noway2]

Hey, @SPM just saying, but I read the post by @Mightyox04 that you replied to as being highly sarcastic. However, I do think that we should be questioning the degree to which we should be arming the police, as well as whether even having govt. police is desirable and most certainly need to dispense with their special privileges, for all the reasons you mention.

 

[AR10ShooterinNC]

And further more good law abiding citizens should also be disarmed for the same reasons. Whats the chances of you needing a gun? I mean what if you get nervous when you the average Joe pulls over a drug dealer with a trunk load of coke? You won't be needing that pistol. Wait average Joe citizens don't pull people. You don't investigate crimes you don't put your life on the line. What in the heck are you talking about? Meter maids?

I don't read day in and day out about Joe citizen gunning people down in the streets. But, we do read everyday about police use of excessive force.

Why do the police need guns to investigate crime? They are just the after action force. Shit in all the mass shooting in the last few years, the cops wait until the fighting in over. The night club in FL, they waiting how many hours before entering to save the people inside?

It comes to either giving cops the proper training, or taking their guns away. I know it's not the rank and file that make the gun qualification requirement, but having untrained cops with guns is very bad.

 

[Dale Gribble]

I just want to make it home safe after my shift is over....

and take a shower....

cause I'm filthy.

 

[Mightyox04]

I don't read day in and day out about Joe citizen gunning people down in the streets. But, we do read everyday about police use of excessive force.

Why do the police need guns to investigate crime? They are just the after action force. Shit in all the mass shooting in the last few years, the cops wait until the fighting in over. The night club in FL, they waiting how many hours before entering to save the people inside?

It comes to either giving cops the proper training, or taking their guns away. I know it's not the rank and file that make the gun qualification requirement, but having untrained cops with guns is very bad.

Lol. All I'm saying is im a fire fighter and I wouldn't do it if we couldn't use hose. Why do painter need brushes? Why do brick masons need trowles?

 

[Dale Gribble]

Lol. All I'm saying is im a fire fighter and I wouldn't do it if we couldn't use hose. Why do painter need brushes? Why do brick masons need trowles?

Wildland F/Fs do it with dozers, rakes and shovels....

then again, those dudes clang when they walk.

 

[Cowboy]

Assaults

In 2015, of the 50,212 officers assaulted while performing their duties, 28.4 percent were injured. The largest percentage of victim officers (32.4 percent) were assaulted while responding to disturbance calls. Assailants used personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) in 79.0 percent of the incidents, firearms in 4.0 percent of incidents, and knives or other cutting instruments in 1.8 percent of the incidents. Other types of dangerous weapons were used in 15.1 percent of assaults.

I guess it only counts if you die though, right. *sarcasim*
Maybe it’s the they knew it was dangerous when they signed up. But now they have serious lasting health conditions and made all those millions of dollars but it’s just not worth it. Oh wait that’s for football players.

 

[JohnFreeman]

I agree completely. Carrying has turned me into the most law abiding driver on the road. I've begun noticing people flying by me.

I drive like I've always driven (which may be occasionally... brisk, but safe)

I'm not going to change my life just because there's some cops with attitudes. This is my country.

 

[JohnFreeman]

Lol. All I'm saying is im a fire fighter and I wouldn't do it if we couldn't use hose. Why do painter need brushes? Why do brick masons need trowles?

I think the corollary is :

"If you're a firefighter who just goes to stand and watch a fire burn because it's too (fill in the blank) to fight, you really don't need a hose."

 

[AR10ShooterinNC]

Assaults

In 2015, of the 50,212 officers assaulted while performing their duties, 28.4 percent were injured. The largest percentage of victim officers (32.4 percent) were assaulted while responding to disturbance calls. Assailants used personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) in 79.0 percent of the incidents, firearms in 4.0 percent of incidents, and knives or other cutting instruments in 1.8 percent of the incidents. Other types of dangerous weapons were used in 15.1 percent of assaults.

I guess it only counts if you die though, right. *sarcasim*

Maybe it’s the they knew it was dangerous when they signed up. But now they have serious lasting health conditions and made all those millions of dollars but it’s just not worth it. Oh wait that’s for football players.

To bad we know that the stats are false. To many videos are out there of, just basic verbal refusal to follow orders has people being charged with assaulting officer. Need to define nation wide what is an assault on a police. How many of these were illegal actions of the police to begin with?

But, it still comes down that the police are give a tool that they are poorly trained to use. Until training is brought up, they should be using said tool.

 

[AR10ShooterinNC]

Lol. All I'm saying is im a fire fighter and I wouldn't do it if we couldn't use hose. Why do painter need brushes? Why do brick masons need trowles?

It would be a safe bet that firefighter have much more training on using a hose, then cops have on guns. How often do fire fighter train with their hoses, compaired to cops training with guns?

 

[Mightyox04]

Wildland F/Fs do it with dozers, rakes and shovels....

then again, those dudes clang when they walk.

Winston prolly don't get many brush fires but in ulah we do. Fought more than one fire with a rake.

 

[Dale Gribble]

A few here and there, but major ones are rare

 

[Mightyox04]

It would be a safe bet that firefighter have much more training on using a hose, then cops have on guns. How often do fire fighter train with their hoses, compaired to cops training with guns?

I train with my hose every night.

 

[Cowboy]

To bad we know that the stats are false. To many videos are out there of, just basic verbal refusal to follow orders has people being charged with assaulting officer. Need to define nation wide what is an assault on a police. How many of these were illegal actions of the police to begin with?

But, it still comes down that the police are give a tool that they are poorly trained to use. Until training is brought up, they should be using said tool.

Take what 50% out for their own fault/illegal/false reports that still leaves what 25,000 or so assaults. I guess that’s ok right. So it doesn’t matter how many cops are hurt just that they are not dead. Good to know.

 

[Cowboy]

I train with my hose every night.

I train with my hose 3-5 times a day and what feels like 10 after bedtime.

 

[Mightyox04]

I train with my hose 3-5 times a day and what feels like 10 after bedtime.

So you're married.

 

[SPM]

Take what 50% out for their own fault/illegal/false reports that still leaves what 25,000 or so assaults. I guess that’s ok right. So it doesn’t matter how many cops are hurt just that they are not dead. Good to know.

Which is roughly equal to the number of excessive force complaints filed by the public.

When one considers that some studies show approximately 40% of law enforcement families experience domestic abuse vs just 10% in the rest of the adult population (http://womenandpolicing.com/violencefs.asp), there is a demonstrable trend that LE is more violent than necessary to have the powers over their fellow Citizens.

If almost half will physically assualt their spouse, suddenly you're going to argue they show restraint when dealing with a total stranger? The claims by the public are mostly false?

Even PoliceOne acknowledges that many departments cover up domestic violence in the ranks - even the question from the officer booked on charges for assaulting his wife acts incredulous that he would be held accountable (https://www.policeone.com/health-fi...ilies-Causes-effects-intervention-strategies/)

If the studies are accurate, which I've not seen a comparable one refuting its conclusions - than the bad apples are hardly few and fair between, but could be approaching one out of every two officers on might encounter. "Good cops" don't beat their spouse. Nor do "good cops" help cover it up.

Again-if they're willing to cover up harm to their own families to save a guy's job, what lengths would they go to when the victim is just some lowlife off the streets?

 

[Cowboy]

Which is roughly equal to the number of excessive force complaints filed by the public.

When one considers that some studies show approximately 40% of law enforcement families experience domestic abuse vs just 10% in the rest of the adult population (http://womenandpolicing.com/violencefs.asp), there is a demonstrable trend that LE is more violent than necessary to have the powers over their fellow Citizens.

If almost half will physically assualt their spouse, suddenly you're going to argue they show restraint when dealing with a total stranger? The claims by the public are mostly false?

Even PoliceOne acknowledges that many departments cover up domestic violence in the ranks - even the question from the officer booked on charges for assaulting his wife acts incredulous that he would be held accountable (https://www.policeone.com/health-fi...ilies-Causes-effects-intervention-strategies/)

If the studies are accurate, which I've not seen a comparable one refuting its conclusions - than the bad apples are hardly few and fair between, but could be approaching one out of every two officers on might encounter. "Good cops" don't beat their spouse. Nor do "good cops" help cover it up.

Again-if they're willing to cover up harm to their own families to save a guy's job, what lengths would they go to when the victim is just some lowlife off the streets?

I wouldn’t trust a study done by a woman’s group. Remember there are lies, damn lies and statistics. I’ve been in the business for 15 years and never once have I seen a domestic covered up. I guess I could find a study saying 90% of domestic abusers were gun owners so we need to ban guns to stop domestic abuse as well.
It’s ok just burn it all down.

 

[SPM]

I wouldn’t trust a study done by a woman’s group. Remember there are lies, damn lies and statistics. I’ve been in the business for 15 years and never once have I seen a domestic covered up. I guess I could find a study saying 90% of domestic abusers were gun owners so we need to ban guns to stop domestic abuse as well.
It’s ok just burn it all down.

Huh....PoliceOne is a woman's group too?

Given how quickly you responded, did you even read any of the links provided to assess the veracity of the study's claim, or did you just look at the link name and decide it lacks credibility and could be ignored?

You also realize the studies the women's group cites weren't conducted by a women's group either, right?

 

[OverMountainMan]

It’s ok just burn it all down.

Not a bad idea. But, how about we restrict cops to detective work? You know, the solving of crimes? Perhaps get them out of the enforcement racket, at which they seem generally ill-suited.

 

[Cowboy]

Huh....PoliceOne is a woman's group too?

Given how quickly you responded, did you even read any of the links provided to assess the veracity of the study's claim, or did you just look at the link name and decide it lacks credibility and could be ignored?

You also realize the studies the women's group cites weren't conducted by a women's group either, right?

No I didn’t read them. I will but I had just woke up. But I can give you one point of observation, my own. I’ve personally seen 15-20 officers fired during the first 12 hours after a report. While most charges were dismissed or never even charged there are a lot of good men to fall to a woman’s schemes. We have talked about it before and most here agree women take advantage.

 

[SPST]

Which is roughly equal to the number of excessive force complaints filed by the public.

You do know that a large number of excessive force complaints are made by hood rats that make complaints if the officer says hello to them wrong. Of course I don't expect you to believe that ANY LEO is good. You have made your feelings on this well known in every thread that comes up about cops. EVERY cop is bad.

 

[OverMountainMan]

...there are a lot of good men to fall to a woman’s schemes.

Zero Pinocchio's.

 

[Cowboy]

Not a bad idea. But, how about we restrict cops to detective work? You know, the solving of crimes? Perhaps get them out of the enforcement racket, at which they seem generally ill-suited.

I would be ok with one or two agencies instead of one for every municipality. Honestly a state police and sheriff’s department alone would allow a greater fluidity with actual training instead of blet at every community college in the state.

 

[Cowboy]

Zero Pinocchio's.

What does that mean?

 

[OverMountainMan]

What does that mean?

It means that no untruths were found in your statement.

 

[Cowboy]

It means that no untruths were found in your statement.

Ok my own observations are untrue. Please tell me I’m lying.

I apologize I think you were trying say I was right.

 

[OverMountainMan]

I would be ok with one or two agencies instead of one for every municipality. Honestly a state police and sheriff’s department alone would allow a greater fluidity with actual training instead of blet at every community college in the state.

Or, take all the "policing" responsibilities away from those government entities, and privatize them?

Ok my own observations are untrue. Please tell me I’m lying.

I was complimenting you on being right, actually. Zero Pinocchio's implies that you & I are in agreement. How 'bou dat?

 

[TheWallrus]

I’ve been in the business for 15 years and never once have I seen a domestic covered up.

I have never been in Law Enforcement and I have seen one.

 

[OverMountainMan]

@Cowboy - A recurring element to all the trouble we have with LEO is that he's placed in a position where he has to enforce laws. And he answers to politicians who determine which of these laws he enforces. If he has any conscience at all, he's sure to be conflicted between obeying authority and projecting authority. Which he need not have in the first place.

 

[Cowboy]

@Cowboy - A recurring element to all the trouble we have with LEO is that he's placed in a position where he has to enforce laws. And he answers to politicians who determine which of these laws he enforces. If he has any conscience at all, he's sure to be conflicted between obeying authority and projecting authority. Which he need not have in the first place.

I agree but how is privatization going to fix that? The question would be do the civil contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan have more or less orders and rules of engagement compared to the military? Because that is the same type of position you would have in policing as well.