10/22 for Appleseed event

Climberman

Climberman

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I'm interested in doing an Appleseed event but I see you cannot use a 15-22 at one. That's the only semiauto 22lr that I have.

Should I buy a 10/22 just for appleseed? And if so, what should I get? Other options?

I considered bringing a regular AR but replacement costs of 500 rounds of ammo puts that at a cost near a 10/22.
 
The only .22lr I have that would be allowed is a 455 tacticool with a 3-15x scope set up for . Seems like the wrong setup for appleseed.
 
charliesgrave said:
I shot my first rifleman with a 455 varmint with a 1-4x. It's a challenge, but it can be done.
RAzSaBG.jpg


Marlin 795's are cheap enough and should suit your purpose if you don't want a 10/22. If you're using irons, Tech Sights makes a peep sight setup for them.

Are you going somewhere that only allows 22lr? The RWVA home range I shot at allowed anything you wanted to bring. I had an FAL I shot a couple rounds with for fun. If you've got the ammo, and the range allows it, nothing wrong with an AR.
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I'm not sure what the course of fire looks like. Would I want a 3-15 scope on the 455 for this?

Also, the main issue with the AR is the current ammo replacement problem. 500 rd of 5.56 ain't cheap anymore and isn't as easy to find as the cheap .22lr ammo I have collected over the years.
 
I haven't done an appleseed shoot, but I've shot a lot of .22 rifles.

10/22 should suit your purposes. Ruger released a model a year ago that had peep sights, adjustable LOP stock, and sling swivels installed, and it should be good to go from the factory.

From an accuracy and reliability standpoint, I feel that my Marlin 60's and 795 both beat out the Ruger, and they're generally a little cheaper too. But if you want to add accessories, or customize the rifle, the Ruger 10/22 has a lot more aftermarket support.

Larger magazines are available for both rifles. The BX25, is the best 10/22 magazine out there, I think. For Marlin 785's, I like the factory 10 rounders.
 
My 15-y.o. daughter shot rifleman with a 10/22 in the Magpul x-22 stock with a Vortex Crossfire II 1-4x shooting CCI SV. We did the 2-day event at RWVA home range in Ramseur & she qualified on Sunday.
 
The Appleseed we several years ago was a lot of 10/22 type rifles and a bunch of Marlins 60. My friend brought a tube fed and he was definitely handicapped by the reload time, even with the speed loader.
Marlin had a LTR version, but I don't know if they still make it.

I basically built this: https://appleseedinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/LTR.pdf and it worked great.
Shot Rifleman with it a few times.
 
Climberman said:
Should I buy a 10/22 just for appleseed?
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How many times are you going to do it? Once? No. Taking others or otherwise going more than once a year? Yes, and set it up optimized for Appleseed.

I have a 10/22 with peep sights and Volquartsen mods that I will be happy to lend you any time both for the event and (I strongly suggest) beforehand to shoot the crap out of it until you know it backards and forards.

I am a huge fan/advocate for Appleseed. :D
 
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JT said:
How many times are you going to do it? Once? No. Taking others or otherwise going more than once a year? Yes, and set it up optimized for Appleseed.

I have a 10/22 with peep sights and Volquartsen mods that I will be happy to lend you any time both for the event and (I strongly suggest) beforehand to shoot the crap out of it until you know it backards and forards.

I am a huge fan/advocate for Appleseed. :D
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I am going to take you up on this. Thanks for the offer.
 
Climberman said:
I am going to take you up on this. Thanks for the offer.
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Any time ... my pleasure! Just let me know, and we'll fix you up with whatever you need for however long you want to use it.
 
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I shot an Appleseed with my 10/22 open sights, then my Marlin 60 with a scope. Old eyes! While the tube mag is more challenging, it can ne dealt with. Shoot boss when I went recommended Mickey D's drinking straws for "speed loaders"; staple one end shut and they'll hold 22LRs in a convenient stack! Littler straws won't accommodate 22 rims.

Several other shooters that weekend used bolt-actions.

Next one I do, I'll scope the 10/22.

But by all means, get a 10/22... and a Marlin 60... and perhaps a CZ bolt, y'know, just to be on the safe side...:)
 
I have shot them with 10/22s several times, ARs a couple, a Garand, and a CZ452.

The 22 bolt is a handicap. You have to work at a steady but quick pace, and figure out how to run the bolt and fall back into exactly the same position each time. I wouldn't recommend starting off that way, but if that's what you have, run what you brung! (or bring the loaner you were offered). That said, the main course of fire for appleseed is very similar to the army/marine course of fire that they shot with 1903 Springfield 30-06 bolt actions, so a 22 bolt is EASY compared to that.

I would try it first with iron peep sights as they recommend, unless your eyes are just terrible. The peep does sharpen up the target a bit. Scopes feel a little like cheating.

Don't let lack of equipment stop you. The instructors have loaners too if you ask ahead of time. To anyone that hasn't tried it yet, I can't recommend it highly enough. Try one soon. You will have fun and you will learn something about shooting, probably a lot about shooting, and even learn a little history during the breaks. Just go do it - you won't regret it. You will learn the same skills and techniques with whatever rifle you bring - don't sweat it. DO bring one with a GI type sling ready to use though. Using a sling to shoot makes prone basically as steady as a bipod. It helps immensely sitting as well, and tightens up groups standing as well.
 
Cape Fear said:
We did the 2-day event at RWVA home range in Ramseur & she qualified on Sunday.
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Is that range in ramseur only used for Appleseed? Or is it a normal range anyone can pay and use?
 
Squanchy said:
Is that range in ramseur only used for Appleseed? Or is it a normal range anyone can pay and use?
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I have no idea, I have only attended an Appleseed there. Sign up & ask at the class, you'll be glad you attended whether you can use the range at other times or not. And it's local to you!

2023 Schedule
 
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Wasnā€™t the prohibition of 15-22ā€™s because of the defect in the bolt? S&W fixed the bolt issue. So I wonder if Appleseed allows it now.
 
Humor me, why can't you bring an AR in 22 or am I reading this wrong?
 
Stogies said:
Humor me, why can't you bring an AR in 22 or am I reading this wrong?
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I brought an AR with .22 conversion when I went years ago. It wasnā€™t 100% so I ended up switching to .233. If I were to do it again, I now have 2 10/22ā€™s that Iā€™d use, definitely the better option!
 
22LR ARs are generally fine. That said, some of the S&W M&P 15-22s specifically had a head space problem (I think that was it) and caused a few safety issues. S&W eventually sent out a gauge to all known owners to check their rifles, fixed the ones that failed the test, and also corrected new production.
 
Stogies said:
Humor me, why can't you bring an AR in 22 or am I reading this wrong?
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The issue was specifically related to the propensity of the S&W 15-22 to have OOB detonations. That happened several times at Appleseed events, drawing the attention to the issue.

Due especially to the course-of-fire in the 25M Appleseed events placing participants at risk of being in a debris field, that sort of malfunction could be more impactful than deemed acceptable by the insurance company that covers the RWVA.

After a lot of gnawing and years of foot dragging, S&W not only acknowledged this problem, but also issued a suitable method of determining that it wouldn't happen. That freed up the use of that specific rifle for these events.

Note that the Tippmann M4-22 is specifically re-marketed on the Appleseed website even including the Appleseed logo, so, there's no basis for considering this issue was 'AR pattern rifle' related. In fact I have seen more and more of these showing up (I have one myself), but the predominant rifle used is the Ruger 10/22 or some variant. Often nicer stuff. Just recently at an Appleseed Known Distance event, the guy to my right was running a Bergara BXR and the guy to my left had a custom 10/22 aftermarket left hand receiver with a Shilen barrel.

On that note when I qualified for Rifleman, I used a 10/22 Sporter and not my M4-22, which is what I used for the KD due to the better accuracy of the Tippmann at 200 yards. I have never seen anybody bring an AR with a 22 conversion, if that matters.
 
It's my understanding that the AR 22 conversions like CMMG have accuracy issues due to the slight mismatch of 22lr in a 223/5.56 bore. I have one but have never shot it for groups, I just use it for cheap practice with my binary trigger. I would take my 10/22 instead.
 
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mostly22lately said:
The issue was specifically related to the propensity of the S&W 15-22 to have OOB detonations. That happened several times at Appleseed events, drawing the attention to the issue.

Due especially to the course-of-fire in the 25M Appleseed events placing participants at risk of being in a debris field, that sort of malfunction could be more impactful than deemed acceptable by the insurance company that covers the RWVA.

After a lot of gnawing and years of foot dragging, S&W not only acknowledged this problem, but also issued a suitable method of determining that it wouldn't happen. That freed up the use of that specific rifle for these events.

Note that the Tippmann M4-22 is specifically re-marketed on the Appleseed website even including the Appleseed logo, so, there's no basis for considering this issue was 'AR pattern rifle' related. In fact I have seen more and more of these showing up (I have one myself), but the predominant rifle used is the Ruger 10/22 or some variant. Often nicer stuff. Just recently at an Appleseed Known Distance event, the guy to my right was running a Bergara BXR and the guy to my left had a custom 10/22 aftermarket left hand receiver with a Shilen barrel.

On that note when I qualified for Rifleman, I used a 10/22 Sporter and not my M4-22, which is what I used for the KD due to the better accuracy of the Tippmann at 200 yards. I have never seen anybody bring an AR with a 22 conversion, if that matters.
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That was informative, I missed most of the SW 15-22 drama.
 
I did my first Appleseed last year, I loved it.
Some insights:
-M&P15s are now allowed. Someone in my class had one and they talked about it (already touched on the reasons a few posts up)
-You need to do mag change outs, anything else handicaps you.
-Use Irons or a scope. RED DOTS SUCK. I had a 10/22 w/ strikeforce and I was severely hampered past the 100 yard targets. Day 2 with a basic 3-9 made a huge difference
-make sure you gun has a sling setup AND that specific sling they use
-the drills will wear you out, not because they're hard but because of the repeptive motion and outside temps.
-bring snacks, drinks, and a comfy chair

I did the course in Ramseur and all the mentors were top notch, I can't recommend this course enough. The history lessons were low key the best part.
 
I did my first Appleseed last year as well. Used Volquartsen custom 10/22 type rifle with a 3-18 power scope set at 3x power. Using too much magnification is a time killer as you can see too much wobble.
The changing of positions on the clock was the killer for me. I'm too physically broken to change positions on a clock. I can make the shots just fine.
I did tighten up my groups using the sling. Possibly the best tip I got from the experience.
 
Timfoilhat said:
I did my first Appleseed last year as well. Used Volquartsen custom 10/22 type rifle with a 3-18 power scope set at 3x power. Using too much magnification is a time killer as you can see too much wobble.
The changing of positions on the clock was the killer for me. I'm too physically broken to change positions on a clock. I can make the shots just fine.
I did tighten up my groups using the sling. Possibly the best tip I got from the experience.
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Did you do the one at CRPC? I did that one many years ago and it was great. I need to go to another one there.
 
Yes
When the oldest son is ready let me know and we can go again as a group, schedule permitting.
 
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Rolesvillerocker said:
I've never been to an Apple seed event but I'm thinking Henry lever action would fit bill. Skinner peep sight on mine. I need to sign up.
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The course of fire is built around magazine fed autos.

How fast are you with the lever? How will you cycle the action in the prone position?

1691113312079.png

For example, in the 2nd stage, you start standing, drop to seated, load one magazine with 2 rounds, fire both, change to a magazine with 8 rounds, and fire those.
Two targets. All in 55 seconds.

In stage 3, you start standing, then drop to prone, load a 2 round magazine, fire, switch to an 8 round, and fire those. Three targets. You have 65 seconds.

Stage 4 gives you plenty of time, but there are four tiny targets, and you're prone for all of the stage. Each shot counts double points.

I have been reading elsewhere of guys who shot the Appleseed Qualifying Test (AQT) with a bolt action.
I can't imagine doing that, myself, but it sure would be a great goal, someday.
 
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I wanted to post a great (if older) synopsis of a Project Appleseed event, told by none other than Massad Ayoob.

www.backwoodshome.com

The Appleseed Project - Backwoods Home Magazine

By Massad Ayoob Issue #123 ā€¢ May/June, 2010 There is nothing else in the shooting world quite like the Appleseed Project, which combines American Revolutionary War history with rifle marksmanship and firearms safety, and in so doing finds a balance that can be equally fascinating to shooter and...
www.backwoodshome.com
 
@mostly22lately is spot on with the descriptions above about the stages.

I would highly suggest using a 10/22 if you have one or can borrow one. Something not tube feed for your first one.

I'm a Marlin 60 guy and I would struggle reloading in the different positions and against the clock. ESPECIALLY with the emphasis they teach on how to use the sling. You'll use the old style GI slings and not the modern ones with the quick adjust tabs like I'm used to.

The sling was high and tight on my left shoulder and it took me a while to come out of each time the stage was over. I did enjoy the learning the importance of the sling positions and it really helped stabilize my aim while firing.

Reading above that people used a Marlin 60, so it can done. Just doesn't sound like a fun two days to me using it. Did not know about that spee d loader. Again with the sling, my left arm pretty much stayed on the stock and not much wiggle room there.

I've done two Appleseeds and both times with 10/22's.
First one with iron sights and second time we used scopes.
Thanks to @RR for his advice on modifying the 10/22's with trigger upgrades, tune up kits, etc. We shot 400-600 rds and not one single jam or any stoppages.

Appleseed is a great event!
 
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I love Appleseed. If you have never done one, just go now and sign up for one soon.

I have spent the weekend at one 7 times or so, probably half of them were 3 day weekends. Not sure they do the 3 day ones any more.

Even though I do mostly action shooting, it is excellent training for shooting in general. It is faster than precision rifle and slower than 2gun/3gun/USPSA/etcā€¦ but helps with them all.

I have shot rifleman with a 10/22 (tech-sight aperture sights), a 5.55 AR (normal irons), and an aperture sighted (bolt) 22LR CZ452. The bolt is fun but much harder to return to NPOA after running bolt for each shot.

I have not succeeded with a Garand (I tried 2 or 3 AQT courses of fire as described in a previous post) much less a centerfire bolt action (I tried a Mosin one time for grins). Hats off to the many men that could run the army/marine training with a bolt 30-06 1903 and make rifleman!

Very kid friendly if they have the discipline to be safe and the attention span to focus on it for a ~7 hour Saturday and a ~5 hour Sunday. The first day alternates lecture/demo on the skills, and shooting to practice them, with a lunch break and some Revolutionary war history about 4/19/1775. The second day is just shooting AQTs. Great safety and shooting fundamentals training for kids!
 
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mostly22lately said:
The course of fire is built around magazine fed autos.

How fast are you with the lever? How will you cycle the action in the prone position?

View attachment 653385

For example, in the 2nd stage, you start standing, drop to seated, load one magazine with 2 rounds, fire both, change to a magazine with 8 rounds, and fire those.
Two targets. All in 55 seconds.

In stage 3, you start standing, then drop to prone, load a 2 round magazine, fire, switch to an 8 round, and fire those. Three targets. You have 65 seconds.

Stage 4 gives you plenty of time, but there are four tiny targets, and you're prone for all of the stage. Each shot counts double points.

I have been reading elsewhere of guys who shot the Appleseed Qualifying Test (AQT) with a bolt action.
I can't imagine doing that, myself, but it sure would be a great goal, someday.
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Nothing like I imagined. Absolutely no lever for me. Sounds challenging for stiff back and knees.
 
JimP42 said:
At least you never have to stand up on the clock, just get down :)
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Trying to get into a sitting position while slinged up is way harder then it should be. It was quite the wake up call for me as to the true nature of my out of shape broken self.
 
Rolesvillerocker said:
Sounds challenging for stiff back and knees.
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I thought it would be, too ... until I tried it and it wasn't that bad. I'm in my 60s and have had spine surgery.

Now, I will admit...

I did take their advice and wore elbow pads, and used a well padded mat, and used a fancier sling than the basic one.
I also did not make Rifleman until my 3rd try at it. They told me, that is normal.

It all seemed to 'click' at once and all of a sudden, I was really shooting a LOT better than I ever had before.
Quite a surprise, to be honest. And enjoyable.

Also, I used to live in Massachusetts and knew full well what I thought were the stories of the first revolutionary battles.
Emphasis on 'thought.' If you peel back the onion you find there were key people they never tell about.

The guy in the CFF logo below, for example:

1691186674577.png

not just some random dude. A gunsmith, of the day. Would have fit right in with us here.
First US Army officer killed in battle.

I learned to be a better marksman at Appleseed but I also was reminded of why I should be.
 
I did an Appleseed event in Ramseur around 7 years ago with my son who was 13 at the time along with my wife's uncle and cousin. We all had a fantastic time. My son and I shot scoped 10/22's since our tech sights went on back order and didn't arrive in time. They let me shoot 3 shots on each rifle to site in before we started. I mounted the scopes the night before since I was waiting on the tech sights. Somehow I ended up being the only one that day that shot rifleman. I'd like to try it again now that I have a couple 10/22's setup with tech sights.
 
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