1911 owners - Can you put the safety on with the hammer down?

Me.

Me.

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At the range today, I saw someone do that. Having never seen that before, I asked him about it.

He said every 1911 he has does that, and that’s the way it should be.
 
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I’ve owned a half dozen flavors of 1911 and I don’t recall a one that would do that.

Could be wrong, often am.

@Amp Mangum

I thought the point of the thumb safety is for the hammer to NOT be down.
 
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gunbelt said:
I can rack my slide with the safety up on my Colt Officers model. I'll have to check with the hammer down. @BatteryOaksBilly
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I have indeed made some capable of loading and unloading with the safety On. The small Sigs and all the Colt .380 knockoffs can be put on safety with the hammer Down. For instance the 938 in front of me will let the safety be On with the hammer Down..BUT, in this configuration the slide can not be manipulated or the hammer cocked.
I have never seen a true 1911 platform that you could put the safety On with the hammer Down.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
I have indeed made some capable of loading and unloading with the safety On. The small Sigs and all the Colt .380 knockoffs can be put on safety with the hammer Down. For instance the 938 in front of me will let the safety be On with the hammer Down..BUT, in this configuration the slide can not be manipulated or the hammer cocked.
I have never seen a true 1911 platform that you could put the safety On with the hammer Down.
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My 938 is the same.
 
Me. said:
Why should you do such a thing? Once the safety is on, you shouldn’t be able to move the slide out of battery.

This is important when holstering one handed while astride my horse. ;)

Gordon_1911.jpg
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It's a matter of liability. You can load and unload with the safety On. That is a good thing. As to the problem you mentioned...it is not a problem. Look at all the guns on the market currently that you can do that with. Just like the 938 and all the others. Not a problem. The ones I have done are for people that want the safety to be on except for firing.
 
Me. said:
Why should you do such a thing? Once the safety is on, you shouldn’t be able to move the slide out of battery.

This is important when holstering one handed while astride my horse. ;)

Gordon_1911.jpg
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Originally they carried it condition 3. IIRC In this condition the pistol contains a loaded magazine, the chamber is empty and the hammer is down. In order to fire the pistol, the slide must be cycled so that a cartridge is loaded into the chamber.
 
wvsig said:
Originally they carried it condition 3. IIRC In this condition the pistol contains a loaded magazine, the chamber is empty and the hammer is down. In order to fire the pistol, the slide must be cycled so that a cartridge is loaded into the chamber.
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That is fine for getting the pistol to fire, but putting a loaded pistol back in the holster while riding on a horse is the problem.
 
What is this sorcery you speak of ?
Col Cooper and the USMC declared Condition 2 to be unsafe and heretical.
I personally agree. You have to use your left hand to ride the hammer down while pulling the trigger/pressing grip safety. I see no purpose in Condition 2 (round in chamber, rounds in magazine, hammer down, thumb safety engaged) as you have to manually thumbcock the hammer to make it Condition 1 and fire the weapon. It's faster and safer to carry in Condition 3 and make it 1 if you need to. Personally, I'm a cocked and locked guy.
 
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Charlie said:
That is fine for getting the pistol to fire, but putting a loaded pistol back in the holster while riding on a horse is the problem.
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You release the standard grip (which engages the grip safety) and circle the hammer and thumb safety with your thumb and index finger, called the "whiskey bottle grip", and push straight down versus trying to guide the muzzle in with your trigger finger indexed on the frame. If you're using a flap holster you drag the flap up with your thumb knuckle coming up before pushing the weapon down into the holster using the whiskey bottle grip. If your flap holster isnt broken in so the hole slips off the brass knob easily, you're screwed.

Charlie, you're right, it's easier said than done.

And, yes, this is utterly useless knowlege in todays age.
 
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xtp308 said:
Personally, I'm a cocked and locked guy.
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When I tried carrying a 1911, I found that the safety kept getting clicked off somehow. My hips are apparently more aggressive than expected.

xtp308 said:
You release the standard grip (which engages the grip safety) and circle the hammer and thumb safety with your thumb and index finger, called the "whiskey bottle grip", and push straight down versus trying to guide the muzzle in with your trigger finger indexed on the frame.
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my understanding skills fail me.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
When I tried carrying a 1911, I found that the safety kept getting clicked off somehow. My hips are apparently more aggressive than expected.


my understanding skills fail me.
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Lol, you grip the rear of the pistol like a bottleneck and push down into the holster.
 
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DrScaryGuy said:
When I tried carrying a 1911, I found that the safety kept getting clicked off somehow. My hips are apparently more aggressive than
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Yep, you need to be sure the ball detent hasn't worn down. You need to be have to have some resistance on the thumb safety and feel that firm click on and off.

The hip thing ? Can't help you there, sorry.
 
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DrScaryGuy said:
When I tried carrying a 1911, I found that the safety kept getting clicked off somehow.
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Cooper was once asked about this happening in daily usage.
His answer.....So What, nothing can happen until the grip safety is depressed...And the trigger pulled.
He was right.

As an aside the British SAS used to charge their P35s and put them in the holster Without the safety on. No grip safety to save them. They were dangerous men that understood dangerous weapons.

Also, as has been pointed out on this forum many times, the original Browning .45 Auto had No Thumb Safety.

All this to point out if the safety brushes off..no big deal.
 
Wayne Novak's shop used to offer a thumb safety and slide modification that allowed you to rack the slide with the safety on but I have never seen a stock 1911 from any manufacturer that does.

The gun @Me. saw was probably modified.
 
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Amp Mangum said:
Wayne Novak's shop used to offer a thumb safety and slide modification that allowed you to rack the slide with the safety on but I have never seen a stock 1911 from any manufacturer that does.

The gun @Millie saw was probably modified.
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The gun Millie saw was here. We do the same thing Novak did. He copied Devel. He has a huge collection of Devel guns.
Really, there's nothing new under the sun. We all copy others, most of the time without even knowing.
I have a poster in the Gun Room of Jack Weaver, signed by him in "The Weaver Stance". I also have a picture of John Henry Fitzgerald in the exact same "stance" before Jack was Born!
 
I saw my name, I asked a question, sheesh.....
 
It’s obvious the safety should not engage until the hammer is full cocked but like all safeties they can be faulty. Anybody that thinks a moveable mechanical device is absolute in it’s purpose is a candidate for the ‘My bad’ award. Luckily most malfunctions are not deadly, just a lesson.
 
Here's another shot from the '84 G&A I picked up as part of the birth year gun thread. I thought this was an interesting note from Colt and it seemed appropriate to post here...

FWIW, I carry a 1911 cocked and locked.

IMG_20200906_133748910.jpg
 
xtp308 said:
... You have to use your left hand to ride the hammer down while pulling the trigger/pressing grip safety. ...
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Lowering the hammer one-handed as described in JMB's patent works fine. Just hook the right thumb over the top of the hammer, pull the hammer back until it hits the tang of the grip safety (and depresses the grip safety in the process), pull the trigger, and safely lower the hammer.
 
gc70 said:
Lowering the hammer one-handed as described in JMB's patent works fine. Just hook the right thumb over the top of the hammer, pull the hammer back until it hits the tang of the grip safety (and depresses the grip safety in the process), pull the trigger, and safely lower the hammer.
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Personally witnessed a friend do that deed as described except he lost control of the hammer. The resultant discharge ripped a big gash in the webbing at his thumb, enough of a gash that he never attempted the action again. He was well practiced having display his abilities time after time but all it takes is one slight misstep.
 
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OldNascar said:
Personally witnessed a friend do that deed as described except he lost control of the hammer. The resultant discharge ripped a big gash in the webbing at his thumb, enough of a gash that he never attempted the action again. He was well practiced having display his abilities time after time but all it takes is one slight misstep.
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Good point! I forgot the slide, while not near as dangerous as the business end, can bite the hand that feeds it ... it ain’t deadly but it will put a tear or three in your eyes.
 
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OldNascar said:
Personally witnessed a friend do that deed as described except he lost control of the hammer. The resultant discharge ripped a big gash in the webbing at his thumb, enough of a gash that he never attempted the action again. He was well practiced having display his abilities time after time but all it takes is one slight misstep.
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I suspect you friend had his thumb on the hammer spur, which is risky business. It is nearly impossible to 'lose control' if you hook your thumb over the top of the hammer, with the end of your thumb between the hammer and slide.
 
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