.223 resizing

Tim

Tim

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what am I doing wrong? Or, is this the difference between .223 and 5.56? No matter what I do I can't get about 2/3 of my brass to size properly. I've made every adjustment imaginable on my sizing die but just can't make this brass behave.

I'm seeing this with LC, PPU and some FC head stamps. Every now and then one will size just fine. All of the Wolf .223 brass sizes just fine. So, I'm wondering if this is simply trying to size 5.56 brass to a .223 gauge.
 
What sizing die are you using and where did the brass come from? If I get once fired military brass it goes through the small base die and then trimmed as needed.
 
billyh said:
What sizing die are you using and where did the brass come from? If I get once fired military brass it goes through the small base die and then trimmed as needed.
Click to expand...

I'm using a LEE full length die on a single stage classic cast press. The PPU brass is once fired from a lot I bought a couple years back. It is marked 5.56

I have no idea where the LC brass came from. Mostly range pickup.

So, a small base die then?
 
Are you trimming it after you size it? Or is it from the neck?
 
Zedhound said:
Are you trimming it after you size it? Or is it from the neck?
Click to expand...

From the neck/shoulder. I trim after sizing, but the brass isn't passing my case guage so I haven't gotten to trimming yet
 
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Tim said:
I'm using a LEE full length die on a single stage classic cast press. The PPU brass is once fired from a lot I bought a couple years back. It is marked 5.56

I have no idea where the LC brass came from. Mostly range pickup.

So, a small base die then?
Click to expand...
I would try one first. They're not supper pricy but they work really well for the military brass in 556 and 308.
 
Tim said:
But you just made a light bulb go off....be right back
Click to expand...

My bulb is burned out. I thought maybe my handle was not allowing the ram to come all the way up, I had adjusted it for a more comfy angle, but that wasn't it.
 
I'm remembering why I don't load .223. At~$0.30 per round, it's just not worth the headache.

I was wanting to load some 75/77gr just for giggles.
 
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PPU is very tough and seems to expand more than most in the case head area, I scrap most of it.

My dies don't reach the extractor groove and will leave a sharp fat band a 1/16" or so above, I don't gauge but they won't chamber.

LC gives me no such issues.

Small base will probably help.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 
Tim said:
I'm remembering why I don't load .223. At >$0.30 per round, it's just not worth the headache.

I was wanting to load some 75/77gr just for giggles.
Click to expand...
Don't know where you're getting 75gr loaded ammo for 30¢ a round but I can tell you that TAC and 75gr Hornady BTHP's are a pretty sweet combo.
 
Try several things. First, check the rims to make sure they are not buggered up a bit. I have lots of cases that do not fit into the gauge until I hit the rims a lick or two with a file. Second, screw the die down some more. I have one rifle that did not chamber my reloads well even though the die was hitting the shell holder. Screwing the die down just a small bit more cured the problem. Third, check to see if the cases that do not fit into the gauge fit into your chamber. The only place the case needs to fit is the chamber.

edit: Try another gauge. I have one gauge that will allow cases to go all the way in while a different gauge will not allow that same case to go all the way in.
 
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Just to be sure, clean inside the case guage. I had a piece of media in mine that caused me grief.

Are you running the shell holder/ram up, then screw die down to touch, then lower ram, and screw die down 1/4 turn?

I use RCBS small base dies for 223/556 and have similar issues with PPC brass when my die is adjusted for FC.

I just screw the die down a little more and run the offending cases thru again.

Some brass is thicker or has more spring back.
It's just one if the many joys of loading mixed headstamps.

Eta, insert the offending brass in the gauge backwards to verify no burrs on the rim etc.
 
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Slacker said:
Eta, insert the offending brass in the gauge backwards to verify no burrs on the rim etc.
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My first thought. Either the shoulder is not getting bumped back far enough (die not touching the shellholder during resizing) or the rim has burrs.

Also, with the Lee die, try taking out the expander and sizing a few cases. The expander might be pulling the neck back out some as you pull the case out of the die. Might need to add some lube inside the necks during resizing, or try polishing the expander.
 
The cases that won't size will NOT go into the gauge backwards.

I've scrubbed the heck out of the die
Have adjusted the die anywhere from just touching to nearly 3/4 turn past touching.
Tried 2 different dies (both LEE) one with decapping pin and one without

At this point, I'm only looking to load ~100 rounds. So, I think I'm going to run cases into the gauge "backward" before sizing and simply discard the ones that don't fit.
 
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If the rim of the brass will not fit into the gauge when you put it in backwards, then it won't fit when you put it into the gauge forwards, either. Sounds like the rims may have ejector burrs on them. You should be able to see/feel them and take a file to them.
 
Do the ones that do not fit into the gauge fit in the chamber of your rifle? They probably will if the rims have burrs on them. If such is the case, as it probably will be, you should be good to go even if they do not fit the gauge.

Hesitate before throwing away cases that work just fine.
 
bump the shoulder back. It's not hanging up on the base. As someone else said, do they chamber in the gun?

I bought one guage and then said what's the point since my ammo plunks in the chamber.
 
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Ikarus1 said:
bump the shoulder back. It's not hanging up on the base. As someone else said, do they chamber in the gun?

I bought one guage and then said what's the point since my ammo plunks in the chamber.
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From the pictures he posted, that is a mighty long way to have to bump back the shoulder to get it into the gauge. I did, indeed, have one upper, an Adams Arms, that would not chamber my reloads until I readjusted my die about 1/8 of a turn, but that was not very far. I have had lots of cases not fit into a gauge until I hit them a few light swipes with a file. They would chamber before I hit them with the file but would only fit into the gauge after a light file treatment.

As you asked, do they fit the chamber? That is the key.


Someone mentioned putting some lube inside the neck when sizing. If the OP is forcing a sizing plug through a dry neck, the case can, indeed, have the shoulder pulled out enough to cause problems. I am not sure how his dies work. He may not have a sizing plug that is pulled back through the neck.
 
I know how a Lee FL resizing die works. Touching shellholder then a 1/8th to 1/4 turn more. Then more if needed esp on someone elses brass
 
Do the Lee sizing dies have an expander plug or a collet that presses around a mandrel? I only have some Lee dies for handgun rounds and not for bottleneck rifle rounds.
 
I had the same issue with my case gauge. I found out it was tolerance stack up. I set the die up right (per the die manufacture instructions) and sized some brass. I then would use the barrel the ammo was for and see if the bolt would close. If it did then I was good to go. I don't even have a case gauge any more that I use. I'll measure the case and make sure it's in sammi specs (overall length, case datum)
 
Charlie said:
Do the Lee sizing dies have an expander plug or a collet that presses around a mandrel? I only have some Lee dies for handgun rounds and not for bottleneck rifle rounds.
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The normal Lee full length sizing die has an expander that expands the neck on extraction. They make a collet type neck sizing die also.
 
Tim said:
I'm remembering why I don't load .223. At~$0.30 per round, it's just not worth the headache.

I was wanting to load some 75/77gr just for giggles.
Click to expand...

It's not worth THIS much of a headache. I don't do half the stuff most folks do and my match ammo shoots extremely well at a fraction of the cost.

I make sure the brass is trimmed to spec, resize (RCBS Small Base), uniform primer pockets and remove crimp. I chamfer the brass with a Lyman VLD tool. Prime, powder, and seat the bullet with my RCBS Competition die (I like the side feed and the small increment seating).

Ive tried to keep it simple as best I could and it works pretty well for me
 
I'm not nearly as lucky as the last few posters.
If I load 500rds of mixed headstamps, full length resize as per RCBS instructions, 2% will require me to morter my rifle due to headspace issues.
Those that give issues are usually PPC, CBC, Ammoland and the other crappy headstamps.

Doing that on the clock does not help ones scores!!

That's why I case guage.

Some brands of barrels are very forgiving of headspace. For instance, my Delton will eat ammo that my Sabre defense will not even consider.

Also, some shooters are ok with a percentage of thier ammo not working.
To them, it's normal to have jams.
 
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Charlie said:
Try several things. First, check the rims to make sure they are not buggered up a bit. I have lots of cases that do not fit into the gauge until I hit the rims a lick or two with a file. Second, screw the die down some more. I have one rifle that did not chamber my reloads well even though the die was hitting the shell holder. Screwing the die down just a small bit more cured the problem. Third, check to see if the cases that do not fit into the gauge fit into your chamber. The only place the case needs to fit is the chamber.

edit: Try another gauge. I have one gauge that will allow cases to go all the way in while a different gauge will not allow that same case to go all the way in.
Click to expand...

This.

Rims could be catching on case gauge...maybe gauge is a bit off too? Do factory rounds do same in gauge?

I run into this with hornady 30.06 from my Garand..the rims get a bit of a ding and wont fit the case gauge...same with most 308 getting fire mult times and flung by fal or m1a. More so with soft brass or multiple fired brass where rims are scuffed up good from extractor and or landing on pavement.
 
Slacker said:
I'm not nearly as lucky as the last few posters.
If I load 500rds of mixed headstamps, full length resize as per RCBS instructions, 2% will require me to morter my rifle due to headspace issues.
Those that give issues are usually PPC, CBC, Ammoland and the other crappy headstamps.

Doing that on the clock does not help ones scores!!

That's why I case guage.

Some brands of barrels are very forgiving of headspace. For instance, my Delton will eat ammo that my Sabre defense will not even consider.

Also, some shooters are ok with a percentage of thier ammo not working.
To them, it's normal to have jams.
Click to expand...

Sometimes you have to do things that are not exactly how they tell you to do them in the instructions. Adjusting the sizing die can be one of those times. If the rounds will not fit into your chamber, adjust your dies until they will or try other dies such as small base dies.

As mentioned above, I have a rifle that would not chamber the same reloads that would easily fit into the chambers of my other rifles and into two different case gauges. A slight adjustment solved the problem. That rifle has been 100% with thousands of my reloads.

Some headstamps are, indeed, better for reloading than are others. If you have problems with specific headstamps, do not use them. A failure rate of 2% is not acceptable. Find the problem and fix it. Luck really has nothing to do with it.
 
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Tim said:
At this point, I'm only looking to load ~100 rounds. So, I think I'm going to run cases into the gauge "backward" before sizing and simply discard the ones that don't fit.
Click to expand...

That'll help. Then if any still don't fit your gauge, they're probably too long at the shoulder.

To push the shoulder back a little further, you can slip a piece of paper between the base of the brass and your shell holder -- lifting up the brass a few thousandths -- and resize again.

Yes, this is a PITA. If that's what it takes for some of your brass, you might want to throw those away too. :)
 
gunwonk said:
That'll help. Then if any still don't fit your gauge, they're probably too long at the shoulder.

To push the shoulder back a little further, you can slip a piece of paper between the base of the brass and your shell holder -- lifting up the brass a few thousandths -- and resize again.

Yes, this is a PITA. If that's what it takes for some of your brass, you might want to throw those away too. :)
Click to expand...

Excellent tip!!!!
 
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