300BO in 12” Suppressed SBR loads?

GridlockH8

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Built a 300BO ohh around 4 years ago and am just now getting off my ass to start setting up my dies to try to actually shoot the thing. I’m looking for subsonic loads to shoot from a suppressed 12” (12.2” to be exact, I think) polygonal Noveske barrel, 1 in 7” twist. Just curious if anyone here has a load they prefer for a similar or the exact same barrel? I’ve found tons of loads online, but the problem is most of the subsonic data I see are either through 8” or 16” barrels. I have a few pounds of different powders that look like they’ll work with some of the heavy 30cal projectiles on my shelf, but I’m up for trying anything. I’ll be hunting with this load eventually, always under 150 yards and typically under 50 yards at my property. I mostly have Barnes TSX 165gr, Sierra 165 match kings, and Nosler 220gr competition FMJBT (won’t be for hunting) that I plan to mess with, but as I said before I’ll play around with some other things as well if anyone has suggestions.
 
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208-225 grain bullet, about 10 grains of win 296 or h110. Keep it as close to supersonic velocity as possible...1050 fps or slightly more for best results.
 
I load 9.1 win296 with 220 in a 16” barrel with pistol gas system.

Subsonic stuff seams to not shoot as well as supersonic. I always get FPS swings with subsonic ammo. I think it is the gas that is left over from the first shot. It seams to slow the next shot down by a little causing it not to have same POI.

Let us know how it goes.


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I have a 9 in SBR I have had good success hunting some big pigs with the barnes 110 tac-tx. I was also using the 110 gr vmax/varmageddon on some smaller wild pigs about 40-50 lbs. 19.7 grns of h110 was the ticket for my rifle, pushing 2100+ fps. If you really must hunt subsonic, Lehigh makes a nasty looking round for 300blk subsonic, I think its maximum expansion.

I got a large batch of Nosler 220 gr custom comps for cheap a while back. Been running those with 9.0 grains of H110. I tried A1680 for a while, but it just seemed louder than the H110.
 
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I keep hearing that A1680 is the best all around powder for 300, so I’m probably going to at least try a few different loads with that, but since I already have the same Noslers I will grab some H110 and try that as well. I’ve also been reading that some people have used pistol powders like Unique with 300. I have about 14-16lb of Unique so that might be interesting to try as well.
 
If I’m reading that right, you want to load 165gr subs and use them for hunting? Without sounding like a know-it-all jerk, because I definitely don’t know it all on this topic, why??

Based on the extensive reading I’ve done on the topic, specifically regarding hunting pigs, 1) hunting with subs can be hit or miss regarding effectiveness, 2)most 30cal bullets won’t expand at 300BLK velocities unless you’re talking 110gr types, 3) why not use the heaviest bullet you can to get the greatest energy on target if you’re limiting yourself to 1050fps?

1680 is indeed regarded as one of the best 300BLK powders. I shoot mostly 125gr supers, sometimes 110gr or 147gr, so I use H110/W296 out of 8.5” barrels.
 
Don’t know yet, but I’ll shoot some pig parts when I come up with a final load to see how much damage it does before hunting live stuff. And just so that last sentence doesn’t sound too weird- I work in a hog slaughter plant, so I can get ahold of that stuff hahaha. But thats an interesting point about going with heaviest available. I’ve never loaded subs before in any (rifle) caliber so I wasn’t thinking about it that way.
 
I, too, am no expert, but I don't see the attraction of hunting with subsonic. I understand the bullet will be quieter going downrange (I've heard the comparison between super/sub sonic suppressed fire) but the suppressor will reduce the noise enough that hearing protection is not required, which is the real advantage in hunting situations. Or am I missing something? Will the pigs be spooked by the supersonic crack, but be completely oblivious to the subsonics?
 
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I built a 10” 300BLK for suppressed hunting and HD, THEN learned it’s a bad choice. The 110g-125g sonics are a different story.
@BatteryOaksBilly @Michael458 I wasn’t able to find y’all’s posts/thread on this.


I definitely think subsonic .308 caliber is a waste of time. I am not much on Subsonic anyway. I have tested a variety of bullets at subsonic, and its fairly pathetic when it comes to "Terminal Ballistics"...... Better off with a 9mm, at least its .35 caliber...........1050 fps is not hitting on much at .308 caliber.

I load 100 Raptors at 2550 fps in 16 inches, 2400 fps in 10.5-12 inches, 2275-2300 in 7.5-8.5 inches....... This is a serious bullet for serious work. Pigs/deer DRT. Another good bullet is the Barnes 110 TAC. The Hornady Softs at 2100-2200 in the short guns is not bad and will work ok, but nothing like the Raptors and Barnes..........

Subsonic? .308 caliber handgun.......and nothing but specialized bullets work Terminally
 
I, too, am no expert, but I don't see the attraction of hunting with subsonic. I understand the bullet will be quieter going downrange (I've heard the comparison between super/sub sonic suppressed fire) but the suppressor will reduce the noise enough that hearing protection is not required, which is the real advantage in hunting situations. Or am I missing something? Will the pigs be spooked by the supersonic crack, but be completely oblivious to the subsonics?

Not all cans will be hearing safe with supers.
 
Although I hadn’t read that about supersonic 300blk not being hearing safe, part of my goal is to make it much quieter because my land is surrounded on 3 sides by city limits. I don’t care much about it being hearing safe for me, but if I can ever get my wife to come out hunting with me that would be a necessity. I have been hog hunting a handful of times, but this will be for deer 99% of the time. I’m also building an 18” .308 AR for other stuff, but SBR’ed small lower ARs are so much smaller and lighter that I’d prefer to hunt with it versus my .308 build. Plus I already have the 12” 300blk barrel and an 18” .308 barrel.

Thats an interesting idea about a 9mm suppressed AR for hunting. Do you guys know anyone that does that?
 
Although I hadn’t read that about supersonic 300blk not being hearing safe, part of my goal is to make it much quieter because my land is surrounded on 3 sides by city limits. I don’t care much about it being hearing safe for me, but if I can ever get my wife to come out hunting with me that would be a necessity.

If its legal to hunt your property then no reason to use a subsonic round. The neighbors can bitch all they want, legal is legal. Putting a suppresor on and shooting full power loads is already more than accommodating enough for your neighbor's precious ears.

I deer hunt a few hundred yards from a yuppie Triangle neighborhood, and never saw a complaint on Nextdoor when I shot a few with my suppressed 300 BLK. I did seem some online bitching when I rattled off a .270 at first light. I had been watching that buck on camera for a while, no way I was gonna let it get a chance to escape. If a buck of a lifetime steps out, I don't know if I would trust a subsonic 300 blk.
 
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It is legal, but its more of a courtesy than anything else. I shoot a TON out there, running drills for 3 gun. But that is always during the day, at the top of our 140 acre piece of property on the side not bordered by city limits. Just some good ole boys across the road on that side who are hammered drunk 90% of the time I see them anyway haha. We hunt down in the bottom, and there is a neighborhood ~200 yards behind my main stand and a very large church about 4-500 yards from that area.
 
Thats an interesting idea about a 9mm suppressed AR for hunting. Do you guys know anyone that does that?

I do not, and I only mentioned that because a .35 caliber bullet is better than a .308 caliber bullet at subsonic speeds because of larger Caliber. 45 ACP would trump both of those, and 230s come naturally SubSonic.
I also would rather have a 45 ACP 230 trauma inflicting bullet that is designed to work at those velocities, than a .308 caliber subsonic bullet designed to work at those velocities. 99% of .308 caliber bullets DO NOT Function or expand at subsonic velocities. Only those manufactured to do so, such as ones from Cutting Edge and or Lehigh. Even then they are not as effective as 45 ACP expanding bullets when terminal penetration begins.

As you see the 45/70 above, that would be in the very effective category as well at subsonic because of caliber, .458.

If a buck of a lifetime steps out, I don't know if I would trust a subsonic 300 blk.

You can watch it run away! You might find some blood, but then again, you probably won't. Very doubtful there would be an exit, any spitzer type bullet is going to tumble at 4-5 inches of penetration and no way exit far side that way. Game Depts in Ohio and Penn were loosing deer right and left to .308 caliber subsonic. They were taking deer in suburban areas and had enormous problems doing so. JD came up with better solutions, and these are the type bullets you see from Lehigh and CEB. Normal standard .308 caliber bullets at subsonic are also sub performance..................

To increase terminal performance of sub sonic bullets, you need to increase caliber. This does not in itself make them "Hammers" Of Thor, but better. None will compare to anything super sonic. That is why I just do not get this fascination with sub sonic? Want Quite? Shot a bow and stick or throw a damn spear, or just stab the hell out of it..........I have one of those Hell Hatchets I have been wanting to use on something........
 
Buy some Lehigh Defense 194 Maximum Expansion projectiles and load 'em up. My hunting buddy has taken deer for the past 3 seasons with their factory ammo, neck or spine shots = DRT.
These deer are not corn fed Kansas giants just 100 ~ 120 lb coastal deer all shot inside 100 yards, they still make good table fare.
 
Buy some Lehigh Defense 194 Maximum Expansion projectiles and load 'em up. My hunting buddy has taken deer for the past 3 seasons with their factory ammo, neck or spine shots = DRT.
These deer are not corn fed Kansas giants just 100 ~ 120 lb coastal deer all shot inside 100 yards, they still make good table fare.

This is exactly what I did this past season. Well, I didn't load them. Someone loaded them for me to try. My suppressed SBR has a 8.5" barrel.

Three deer. Three neck shots. Three deer on the back of the truck.
 
I looked up those Lehighs, I’ll try a couple boxes of those and see how they do for sub loads. I’m not 100% opposed to shooting supersonic loads either- I just had it in my mind from a few years back when I first started researching all of this that people were getting good results with heavy sub loads at under 200 yards on deer and smaller game, but that also could have been fuddlore.
 
I looked up those Lehighs, I’ll try a couple boxes of those and see how they do for sub loads. I’m not 100% opposed to shooting supersonic loads either- I just had it in my mind from a few years back when I first started researching all of this that people were getting good results with heavy sub loads at under 200 yards on deer and smaller game, but that also could have been fuddlore.
The 110gr Barnes Tac-tx will pleasantly surprise you. We shot the factory loads this past season but I'm gonna try loading some of my own this time around.

They've exited every deer we've shot with them, even if you put em on the shoulder. Short blood trails that are easy to follow if they're not DRT. We're shooting a 10.5" barrel.

My daughter shot this 155lb 8pt at 65yds. What you see is the exit. It busted the shoulder on the opposite side and never slowed down.
Screenshot_20191108-202328.jpg
 
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During my recent hunting class I found that even though I'm in a suburban county neighborhood, I am not allowed to shoot (must be 100 yards from residence). But I am allowed to hunt on my property. I thought I would just use a bow, but when I found out the 'hunting' rule trumps the 'target shooting' rule, I'll break out the 300 or PCC. But for my neighbors I want to do it subsonic/suppressed. I just picked up some Hornaday 190 Sub-X which are made for 300 and expand down to 900fps. At the distances I'm shooting, I'll be well over the 900 FPS. For 9mm, I would use 147 XTP, I just have the component, but will build up some loads in time for gun season.

The Sub-Xs are half or less the cost of the Lehighs.
 
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I just picked up some Hornaday 190 Sub-X which are made for 300 and expand down to 900fps.
This is the first I've heard of a 300BLK that'll reliably expand at sub speeds. Are there a lot of positive hunting testimonies/reviews?
I wonder why they didn't make it closer to 220g for penetration?
 
, I'll break out the 300 or PCC. But for my neighbors I want to do it subsonic/suppressed. I just picked up some Hornaday 190 Sub-X which are made for 300 and expand down to 900fps.

That is a good reason for subsonic. At least with real purpose. Just looked at the 190 Hornady, of course you can't trust Hornady to tell the truth, but looks like it might be worth a try. What I am confused about is why they made the damn thing a boat tail? Boat tails are hard to stabilize at subsonic to begin with, and of course the bullet won't be used past 300 yards anyway, so what the hell is the point of a boat tail??????? While it may expand a little, it would not be nearly as destructive as the Lehigh or the CEB. But overall it looks pretty decent, good enough to try anyway. The Boat tail if you can get it stable, will hold impact velocity up some for those less than 100 yard shots, more impact velocity more trauma inflicted.

Can't hurt to give it a try, far better choice than a bullet that is not designed to work terminally at subsonic..........
 
With Big Bore bullets Hornady has a bad reputation in the field. Also with some brass. I am talking 416--.510 caliber
 
I keep hearing that A1680 is the best all around powder for 300, so I’m probably going to at least try a few different loads with that, but since I already have the same Noslers I will grab some H110 and try that as well. I’ve also been reading that some people have used pistol powders like Unique with 300. I have about 14-16lb of Unique so that might be interesting to try as well.
Internet word is that A1680 is the best all around powder for 300blk in the AR platform, but if you don’t use a semiauto then VV N110 is generally quieter.
 
I'm just starting to look- good gel tests and seem to face up well against Lehigh. This was impressive, but maybe just good shot placement. , and
 
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I am working on a project for a friend, setting up 4- 300 BLK 10.5 inch guns for him. Spent the day yesterday sighting those, and then 2 of my own. None subsonic of course, all with the primary 100 Raptor load. These were PSA uppers, all 10.5 inch.

Hornady bullet looks ok, especially for the price. However, I can promise you this, it will not compare with the Lehigh or Cutting Edge versions in consistent field terminal performance. But, performance comes at a price. Until you have seen these bullets at work, it's just hard to explain just how effective they are. Yes, while expensive, ask yourself just how many of these are you going to shoot? Most you will shoot is for load development and sighting in. After that? Me, I would try both Hornady and the Lehigh or CEB. Your Hornady load might shoot to POI or close, with the more expensive bullets? You might have the best of both this way!
 
Internet word is that A1680 is the best all around powder for 300blk in the AR platform, but if you don’t use a semiauto then VV N110 is generally quieter.
That is also why some use Unique. A faster powder will be quieter, but I don't think it will run an AR. For those of us with 300BLK bolt actions though it's worth trying.
 
Hi
New here but I was just out this morning testing some new loads for the .300 Blackout .
I picked up some Hornady 220gr ELD X's , there isnt much data out there for them and you have to be careful because they are .067" from ogive longer than most 220gr bullets which can quickly lead to compressed powder and over pressure if you just use any 220gr load data .
EDIT TO ADD ..COL 2.24" I measured and I would put max grains of H110 with this bullet is probably 10.2 Grains.. USE CAUTION up at 10 grains!!
I worked this load down to 9.1 gr of h110 . I'm shooting a 10.5" barrel surpressed and got pretty steady 1,030fps very little deviation . I use an adjustable gas block and set it with just enough gas to cycle properly and throw brass to 3:30 and about 6 ft. before chrono and sighting .
At 45 yrds using a vortex and 3x magnifier.
The bottom target is 8 shots , first group.
The top target ...Bullet #1 is no sight change from bottom group. Bullet #2 is 2 clicks right . The next20200309_203905.jpg six shots are 2 clicks down .
Pretty happy with this load , very consistent fps and grouping . The group could be tighter with a better moa scope and if I wasnt resting on an old 2x4 .. lol

Edit to add .. COL 2.24 "
 
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To increase terminal performance of sub sonic bullets, you need to increase caliber. This does not in itself make them "Hammers" Of Thor, but better. None will compare to anything super sonic. That is why I just do not get this fascination with sub sonic? Want Quite? Shot a bow and stick or throw a damn spear, or just stab the hell out of it..........I have one of those Hell Hatchets I have been wanting to use on something........

So I get that there are options for hunting that are better than a sub .308, i get that some people have had bad experiences with not recovering game .. i get that if this was a name the best deer round topic .. sub .308 probably wouldn't even come up.
To imply that stabbing a deer has better performance than a sub .308? How about at 10 feet? Can you stab a deer at 10 feet? Can you throw a spear 50 yrds?
I do not hunt with subsonic ammo .
A sub .308 can and will drop a deer humanely WITHIN its limitations just as every other caliber , rock , spear or knife that you mentioned. Once you venture outside those limitations you will have problems, with anything!
Its seems to me that your perceived problem with a sub .308 is simply that a lot people overestimate its limitations.
I'm primarily a bow hunter , I almost exclusively hunt with my bow .. but when I do carry a rifle I'm using the same stand setups that I use to bow hunt. There isnt a deer that i have killed with my bow in the last 30 years that i couldn't have dropped with a sub .308, honestly even deer I've killed with my rifles , maybe a handful were outside 30 yrds. That's because of my stand placement for bow hunting.
So again, are there better choices? of course!
Is hunting Subsonic necessary? Usually not , but sometimes it is .. I can only assume.
But to single out the .308 as across the board unacceptable and unable to do what everything else you listed can (within it's own limitations)... is too far reaching and ridiculous imo.
 
Hi Tarzan........ My goal was simply to point out a few things about terminal performance and most .308 caliber bullets. At subsonic, standard or common conventional .308 caliber bullets do not do well during terminal performance, they do not expand, and they are unstable, and unreliable. The only way to increase your terminal performance is to use specialized bullets, designed to cause trauma and remain stable at subsonic velocities, such as those made by Cutting Edge Bullets and Lehigh, for example. Otherwise, increase in caliber is another way to increase terminal performance, such as going to 9mm and or 45 ACP, as example. There are times that subsonic is desirable, populated urban areas, problem animals within these areas come to mind. Otherwise, 300 BLK is and can be a superb little tool at Super Sonic, with the right bullets.


To imply that stabbing a deer has better performance than a sub .308? How about at 10 feet? Can you stab a deer at 10 feet? Can you throw a spear 50 yrds?

I'm primarily a bow hunter , I almost exclusively hunt with my bow .

I don't hunt deer, never considered stabbing one, doubt I could throw a spear and hit anything at 5 yards, much less 50. And would not consider a bow for anything period. However, I know what a standard conventional sub sonic .308 caliber bullet can do, and or cannot do, and would venture a small bet that stabbing, spearing, and even the bow would be more effective terminally than the conventional .308 caliber bullet at subsonic. It seems you missed the point of the conversation. My point is that if you have to use subsonic, use a bullet designed to work at subsonic. And, further point out, that subsonic is far less effective than higher velocities. Many that seem to want to use subsonic do not understand that, and use subsonic because they think it is "COOL".... I have two sons that are in that category! Unless you are working within an environment that requires subsonic, one is much better off by "Limiting, as many "Limitations" as Possible"

I don't care for "Limitations" I strive to eliminate that from the equation by using the very best tools to accomplish the mission at hand. There are many variables in the field that one has to deal with, to further complicate a scenario by self inflicted limitations just does not add up for me. Ones goal should be to accomplish the mission, as quickly and effectively as possible. In this scenario we are discussing 300 BLK, and what can be the most effective application with it, and how. There are a few chosen bullets in 300 BLK that are extremely effective, in this case for deer, that far exceed what can be done subsonic, even with proper designed subsonic bullets. In those rare cases where subsonic has to be used, then use proper designed bullets to maximize terminal performance at subsonic velocity.

Can you kill a deer with a subsonic conventional bullet that does not expand or perform at those velocities? That is ridiculous, of course one can, but one can kill a deer with a 22 LR as well. Is that the proper thing to use? Is it the best? Is it what you want to rely upon? I dare say not.
 
Hi Tarzan........ My goal was simply to point out a few things about terminal performance and most .308 caliber bullets. At subsonic, standard or common conventional .308 caliber bullets do not do well during terminal performance, they do not expand, and they are unstable, and unreliable. The only way to increase your terminal performance is to use specialized bullets, designed to cause trauma and remain stable at subsonic velocities, such as those made by Cutting Edge Bullets and Lehigh, for example.



I know what a standard conventional sub sonic .308 caliber bullet can do, and or cannot do, and would venture a small bet that stabbing, spearing, and even the bow would be more effective terminally than the conventional .308 caliber bullet at subsonic. It seems you missed the point of the conversation.

I dont think I did miss the point , it's not a revelation that bullets designed to expand at slow velocities perform better at slow velocities than bullets that aren't designed for that.

When a member put up the scenario of a buck stepping out and using the .300 blkout... you claim he would just watch it run away.. with a total disregard for bullet, range and placement. Insinuating its incapable...period.
You then made the claim that Deer management shooters were having trouble taking down deer with a sub .308, again with a disregard for bullet , range and most importantly in this case placement. Again insinuating across the board incapable...Deer management cull shooters prefer and only take neck shots unless a follow up is needed.. they have determined that a well placed neck shot is the most consistent in dropping a deer than any other well placed shot besides the head. A bigger , flatter bullet is more effective in energy transfer, and more likely to hit the jugular or spine than a slimmer pointy'er bullet. The studies you can google and read online for cull shooters are all done based solely on a neck shot.
You also keep mentioning "increasing" terminal performance.. but dont quantify from what .. to what .. and then again make the claim that stabbing a deer is more effective than a standard hunting bullet subsonic. Based on what ??
You claim to know what a standard .308 subsonic bullet can and cannot do .
How do you know what a standard subsonic .308 bullet can and cannot do if you have never personally blasted one thru a rib cage and into the internal organs and then physically rip it all out with your hands ,looked at it and felt it???

Your point is far from "hey guys make sure you choose the right bullet"
 
with a total disregard for bullet

I have mentioned several times "Conventional or standard .308 caliber bullets, as opposed to bullets designed for sub sonic velocities", are you having some sort of issue reading or understanding that? Or would you rather I state for the record a 150 gr Hornady Soft Point? Or 165 gr Hornady Soft Point? Or or or........?

range and placement

For "General Purposes" one does not need exact ranges. A "Conventional Standard .308 caliber bullet will not expand regardless if it is 5 yards or a 100 yards. So exactly what is the point of "Range" being discussed? As for Placement, CNS shots are not considered, as those can be accomplished with anything, even 22 LR.

Again insinuating across the board incapable

I have not wasted my time going back to check for sure, but I don't recall the statement that "Conventional Standard" .308 bullets are "INCAPABLE" of killing anything, as that would not be the case of course. Not as effective terminally as a bullet designed to work at Sub Sonic... YES Guilty. Not as effective as larger Caliber, Yes, Guilty. Not as effective as Super Sonic, again, Yes, Guilty. But stating they are totally incapable comes from you, not me.

The studies you can google and read online for cull shooters

Well there you go, Damn, I should have just "Googled" all this information up. It would have saved me many thousands of rounds fired in everything from 223 to .620 caliber bullets, including softs, solids and Non-Conventional bullets conducting test work here for several bullet companies. It would have also saved me many 100s of Thousands of Dollars running around various continents shooting 1000s of animals and digging bullets out of them, of course after doing the lab work, one must take that to the field to test. If I just had googled all this stuff, there would be many animals still walking the planet, including buffalo, elephant, lions, leopards, 100s on top of 100s of plains game, I would not have had to waste my time in 6 different countries in Africa, several trips to Australia and New Zealand, Canada, Alaska, various states within the US and even Asia. Damn, I could have just googled all this and would not have to leave the comfort of my big black recliner! I also could have saved all that money and effort developing the B&M Rifle and Cartridges in which to slay the beasts of the earth with. There alone is a few hundred thousand. I could have saved all that time developing new Solid Bullet Technology that is now being used all over the world, bullets from North Fork Technology and Cutting Edge Bullets! I could have saved the time I spent with JD Jones, when he was working towards better designed bullets for Sub Sonic Deer Control for two state Agencies in Pennsylvania and Ohio. He and I could have saved that time if we just knew how to "Google". I guess those state agencies that put JD on that mission didn't google either? And now, if I would have googled this up, I would not have had to waste the last 20+ years studying bullet behavior! Think about all the poor buffalo, elephants, lions and plains game that would be walking around today, if I would have just learned to "Google".................

I'll Be Damned! Now I really don't like you very much, now that you have clued me in I have wasted a big portion of my life!

No Offense Tarzan of the Urban Jungle. I am just "hacking" on you a bit. Hopefully you will take that as intended, in jest......

Have a great day My Friend.............LOL.....................
 
I have mentioned several times "Conventional or standard .308 caliber bullets, as opposed to bullets designed for sub sonic velocities", are you having some sort of issue reading or understanding that? Or would you rather I state for the record a 150 gr Hornady Soft Point? Or 165 gr Hornady Soft Point? Or or or........?



For "General Purposes" one does not need exact ranges. A "Conventional Standard .308 caliber bullet will not expand regardless if it is 5 yards or a 100 yards. So exactly what is the point of "Range" being discussed? As for Placement, CNS shots are not considered, as those can be accomplished with anything, even 22 LR.



I have not wasted my time going back to check for sure, but I don't recall the statement that "Conventional Standard" .308 bullets are "INCAPABLE" of killing anything, as that would not be the case of course. Not as effective terminally as a bullet designed to work at Sub Sonic... YES Guilty. Not as effective as larger Caliber, Yes, Guilty. Not as effective as Super Sonic, again, Yes, Guilty. But stating they are totally incapable comes from you, not me.



Well there you go, Damn, I should have just "Googled" all this information up. It would have saved me many thousands of rounds fired in everything from 223 to .620 caliber bullets, including softs, solids and Non-Conventional bullets conducting test work here for several bullet companies. It would have also saved me many 100s of Thousands of Dollars running around various continents shooting 1000s of animals and digging bullets out of them, of course after doing the lab work, one must take that to the field to test. If I just had googled all this stuff, there would be many animals still walking the planet, including buffalo, elephant, lions, leopards, 100s on top of 100s of plains game, I would not have had to waste my time in 6 different countries in Africa, several trips to Australia and New Zealand, Canada, Alaska, various states within the US and even Asia. Damn, I could have just googled all this and would not have to leave the comfort of my big black recliner! I also could have saved all that money and effort developing the B&M Rifle and Cartridges in which to slay the beasts of the earth with. There alone is a few hundred thousand. I could have saved all that time developing new Solid Bullet Technology that is now being used all over the world, bullets from North Fork Technology and Cutting Edge Bullets! I could have saved the time I spent with JD Jones, when he was working towards better designed bullets for Sub Sonic Deer Control for two state Agencies in Pennsylvania and Ohio. He and I could have saved that time if we just knew how to "Google". I guess those state agencies that put JD on that mission didn't google either? And now, if I would have googled this up, I would not have had to waste the last 20+ years studying bullet behavior! Think about all the poor buffalo, elephants, lions and plains game that would be walking around today, if I would have just learned to "Google".................

I'll Be Damned! Now I really don't like you very much, now that you have clued me in I have wasted a big portion of my life!

No Offense Tarzan of the Urban Jungle. I am just "hacking" on you a bit. Hopefully you will take that as intended, in jest......

Have a great day My Friend.............LOL.....................

First , YOU are the one that reported on Dept. of wildlife having trouble using .308 .. I assume YOU were not physically there when it happened .. so that info YOU provided was obviously googled!!!

Second , Flat out ridiculous--When looking at any caliber , any bullet, any weight any expansion... RANGE eventually plays a role!!! Hint -- the further a bullet travels the slower it gets!!

Third , if you are going to back up your statements using someone elses experience, you should include the bullet they were using , not just simply say "it" was not affective .

You can shoot paper , gel blocks, bricks , or any else you want a million times for all I care ... but until you put one in a chest cavity you have no first hand experience in that category.

Your posts come off as a passive aggressive attempt at saying something , without actually saying it BUT still saying it while leaving yourself plenty of plausible deniability.

We've ventured to the end of this loop we are in
 
First , YOU are the one that reported on Dept. of wildlife having trouble using .308 .. I assume YOU were not physically there when it happened .. so that info YOU provided was obviously googled!!!

Second , Flat out ridiculous--When looking at any caliber , any bullet, any weight any expansion... RANGE eventually plays a role!!! Hint -- the further a bullet travels the slower it gets!!

Third , if you are going to back up your statements using someone elses experience, you should include the bullet they were using , not just simply say "it" was not affective .

You can shoot paper , gel blocks, bricks , or any else you want a million times for all I care ... but until you put one in a chest cavity you have no first hand experience in that category.

Your posts come off as a passive aggressive attempt at saying something , without actually saying it BUT still saying it while leaving yourself plenty of plausible deniability.

We've ventured to the end of this loop we are in
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@Urban Tarzan, since you like Google as a ballistic tool, perhaps you would be better off to Google who you are debating with before going "live" with somebody like this. Just Google B&M Rifles and Cartridges. Then rethink your posts. You look silly even debating this man.
 
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Yeah...as much as we have to admit...there are certain people you just don’t really want to get into a spitting contest about with certain things...

Michael on Bullets
ChiefJason and Gunbelt on leather/ears/feet
Bailey Boat on being a grump
Chdamn on knot tying
And DGGallim in making small humans.


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