38 special and .357 self defense ammo ballistic data

[P01135809]

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/#38spl

Lucky gunner labs has some relatively new data on these calibers.

I was struck by the relatively small differences in performance in the gelatin regarding penetration and expansion.

I wish they would put ft/lbs of force instead of just simple muzzle velocity since it makes more sense regarding "how hard it hits".

I think this calculator is helpful because it allows comparison of multiple loads.
http://www.larrywillis.com/bullet-energy.html

I also plugged the formula into an excel spreadsheet so you can put as many bullet weights and velocities in as you want. just enter the weight and velocity in columns A and B and copy the formula in C2 and past it all the way down. I guess the forum won't allow upload of excel so here is a screenshot of how I set it up.



Oh yeah, and ballistics by the inch can help extrapolate to longer barrel lenghts...

http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

 

[Bailey Boat]

I think there's another factor not considered that's as important as any, and that's ACCURACY.....
It's great to have velocity and expansion but if it doesn't hit the target with consistency it's worthless. I do understand that accuracy is firearm/user dependent but that's why Ransom Rest were invented, takes out all the guess work....

 

[P01135809]

Agreed. it ALWAYS goes back to shot placement and accuracy!

I've definitely seen variation in accuracy between loads even at relatively short distances like 10 yards! These aren't off of a ransom rest, but you can tell when one box of ammo has a spread of 8" and another one in the same range session has 4"...

 

[Ferrisfan]

But the extra muzzle flash on the .357 lets the bad guy know he is being shot at by bigger booms.

 

[P01135809]

It seems like you always read/hear people say that there is no "significant" ballistic advantage of .357 out of a snubbie so you might as well stick with 38special. I'm not sure the objective data holds that up as true.

If you just look at Speer gold dot 135gr short barrel, there is a pretty big difference in energy (342 ft/lb vs 202 ft/lb) and expansion of the projectiles.

Speer gold dot 135gr short barrel in .38 from a 2" barrel

Speer gold dot 135gr short barrel in .357 from a 2" barrel

 

[Bailey Boat]

My biggest wish would be for the author of the above listings to have included Super Vel ammunition.
When I hit GSP in 1971 they were issuing a Federal load in 357 which was nothing more than a 38 +P in velocity terms and only carried a 110 grain bullet.. It was "okay" but when compared the the Super Vel 357, 125 grain HP it paled in comparison. There were a LOT of us that paid a premium price to obtain the SV and carried it religiously at our own expense.

The Super Vel 125 gr 357 left a 4" barrel at somewhere around 1600 fps and was as awesome as it's claims. As far as I know (within my little circle of 50 guys) I was the first one to actually kill something using that load. I was deer hunting one morning and a doe of about 150 pounds came ambling by at roughly 20-25 yards and I decided to forego the rifle and use my handgun. The sight picture and trigger squeeze put the bullet exactly where I wanted it, just behind the front shoulder, halfway between the lower line of it's chest and the top line of it's back.

At the sound of the shot it humped it's back but when it came down it layed perfectly still, collapsed onto it's legs. I turned her over to observe the entry wound and found a single hole about the size of my little finger. When I rolled her to the other side the exit wound was the size of quart mason jar.

When I got her home and began dressing her out the insides were mainly jelly like consistency with lots of congealed blood and a little bit of bone where I had hit a rib on the entry side. There was very little left of the lungs that could be recognized and by all accounts she should have at least ran a few feet. I took numerous photos so I could show the others what it had done. They were definitely impressed and we all had new found faith in Super Vel ammo.

Over the course of years it became increasingly difficult to find at a dealer because SV had basically folded as a company and the remaining stocks had been snapped up by collectors. Remington came out with the Golden Sabre line that basically copied the Super Vel and eventually took SV's place. Super Vel is back today and producing the same quality stuff they did back then.
Expensive, you betcha... Worth it?? Damned straight. If you unload my .45 you'll find SV 185 HP's.......

 

[BatteryOaksBilly]

Anybody interested in real world results of how pitiful handguns are PLEASE go to YouTube and watch interview with Bob Stasch by Masaad Ayoob. This guy is a modern gunfighter.