40 dead ?

Is the 40 S&W cartridge heading the way of the dinosaurs?


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With the FBI ditching their own creation of the 40 caliber S&W cartridge in favor of the 9mm, many are saying it is dead. Do any of you feel that it is dead, and if so why? Sure there are pro's and Cons. Let's keep this thread friendly and fun so no caliber bashing of others choices.
 
It won't be like the 41 Magnum... it's Short & Weak, where the 41 Magnum is Perfection in a Revolver or a Trapper length Levergun!

I heard a LGS owner saying that 40s don't sell, an' he has too many of 'em. I looked... any Glock in 40 is $350 and sits there for weeks.
 
I don't think that the caliber itself is dead but I do think that production rate of weapons will decrease which will drive costs up (eventually when the surplus dries up).

The main draw of the 40 as a prep caliber was the potential abundance of rounds available since a lot of police and FBI carried it.

Now that is on the decline.

In the meantime 9mm has come along way and the performance of that round is great and on par with the 40 (for the most part). And it's cheaper.
 
If one looks at the history of popular handgun cartridges, and handguns themselves for that matter, they'll find that the public opinion and market strongly tends to follow that of law enforcement.

If something comes into favor with law enforcement agencies, it rises in popularity with the public. Conversely, if it falls out of favor with law enforcement, then public popularity also drops.

The 10mm Auto was briefly adopted by the FBI, during which they determined that the full power commercial loading was excessive for recoil control for many agents. This lead to the development of a reduced recoil ammunition, and eventually the .40 Smith And Wesson cartridge.

Before the FBI adopted the 10mm Auto, the only reason that round survived at all was because Colt had made their Delta Elite in that caliber. When the FBI adopted it, the round enjoyed an increased market as others followed the FBI's choice.

When the .40 S$W was developed as a result of the FBI's needs/desires, it, too, enjoyed an increased market as others in both law enforcement and the public followed suit.

But in all this time, in terms of the market, it's never really come close to being as popular as the 9mm, for some reason. I'm sure others could expound on this. The 9mm definitely enjoys the advantage of a long history that spans the globe in use, availability, and guns made for it.

The question that arises is whether or not the .40 S&W actually provides you any real advantages over a 9mm, especially with the rounds available in 9mm today and it's proven track record.
 
Personally 40 is an amazing round that I don't own. The recoil is sharp and tends to have a snap.

Yes, .40 is snappy and kicks like a mule. I have a G27 that I practiced and practiced with and could never become proficient at consistent center mass hits at anything > 12'. So, it sits in the safe now because I am attached to metal.


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The question that arises is whether or not the .40 S&W actually provides you any real advantages over a 9mm, especially with the rounds available in 9mm today and it's proven track record.
The advantage is clear: 1 extra point per Bravo Charlie and Delta hit. I need alot of those extra points.
 
I think the 40 will always be around for competitive purposes but not so much for the law enforcement and self defense market.
 
Probably an error to think that every Law Enforcement agency will drop the .40 just because the FBI stops using it. I think it's proven itself to be quite effective.

There will be no magic bullets until we go to particle beam weapons.
 
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The first gun I shot was a .40 and I loved it. I've since moved to 9x19 exclusively. I have tons of .40 brass, but need a gun I can justify shooting .40 in (M&P 40? USP? P229?)
 
The mighty .40 worked for my uncle. 1 shot center mass is all it took and most of the bad guys back with it. I wouldn't knock 40. It's not MY go to PD cartridge, but for many it is. Don't think it is going anywhere any time soon.
 
The fact that the market is absolutely flooded with trade-in and overstock 40's, is a clear sign that 40 is on a long journey to the top of the list of obscure calibers, like .22 short.
 
Probably an error to think that every Law Enforcement agency will drop the .40 just because the FBI stops using it. I think it's proven itself to be quite effective.

There will be no magic bullets until we go to particle beam weapons.


Yes, it is a very effective round and yes, not every LEA can afford to dump 40SW right away. But outside of competition, it will be dead in less than 10 years. Just my humble opinion.
 
The fact that the market is absolutely flooded with trade-in and overstock 40's, is a clear sign that 40 is on a long journey to the top of the list of obscure calibers, like .22 short.

I don't think it will ever reach obscurity. There are just too many people who shoot it and far too many weapons made in the caliber. And it's an effective round.

I think it will never be any less popular than 45. But the cost will most likely go up as less and lees large government contracts are sought in that caliber.
 
i own two and edc one every single day, I flat out don't like the 9mm, never have. my favorite is the .44 mag but it is a little hard to conceal without a shoulder rig and I don't wear a jacket unless its cold out.
 
I never gave 40 a single thought.The reason being that up until the Obama Era I didn't worry so much about government and financial establishment failures. The more of the Constitution that was chipped away, the more worried I got. As time passed and I learned who was REALLY running our government, I began to procure the things I might need in case there was some sort of failure, to aid and protect those I love. I didn't go crazy. I just bought duty specific weapons and ammo and enough food for about a month for 5 people, and a water filtration system and a few Life Straws. To me 40 is a bastard, a fluke round with some sort of dedication and a hyped following. If there was a catastrophic event I could find 9mm and 45cal to arm myself or to trade for other needs. I may not find 40, or the quantities of the things needed would have to be minimized. 9mm is world wide and everywhere there is a pistol here in the US. I witnessed this when cleaning up an aunts house, getting it ready for auction. There was an old WWII Beretta 9mm that was so rusty the slide would no longer move and about a case of 9mm FMJ ammo. The pistol was hidden in a wrapped up towel in a box in the attic. The ammo was in a drawer of my uncle's gun cabinet. I had gun hating uncle to pass later on. Even though he was against everyone being free to own a gun if they weren't a felon, he still had a shotgun and a 9mm pistol with ammunition for them.lol Now, do another poll. See how many members and passers by that have 9mm and 45 pistols somewhere in their houses, and then think how many people who aren't active gun forum or club members who also have 45 and 9mm. Then come tell me about how I should care about 40cal.
 
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Man, I loved my G22. That thing was a shooter, and I didnt mind the recoil. I shot a TON of rounds through that gun. Someone just wanted it worse than I did. And I needed a little bit smaller pistol to conceal. Im still shooting a G35 at competitions. That thing will knock down that farther away steel vs some of the 9's Ive shot with.
 
I had four 40's but sold one. The one that I sold is the one that I shot all the time. Out of the 3 I have, 2 have never been shot (Sig 226 and SA XD). The one shot is a Glock 23. That is my history with 40's. I carry 9s most of the time which is a caliber that I hated 30+ years ago. With the advance bullet technology got me back to the 9. I do not think that I would sell any of my 40's but would not buy another one. I do not think that I would buy any more pistols for a while. I am looking for old revolvers that I can afford.
 
While I've always liked the 10mm since the Bren10, never owned one or .40 S&W. Always had numberous 9mm and .45 ACP pistols. I'm also a big .41 Mag shooter as I've cut my teeth reloading on that cartridge back in 84' I've got 4 boolit molds from 175-270 gr in .411. .40 S&W will be around quite awhile by the numberous produced. Dead is the other mid pistol caliber it replace the .41 Action Express. Believe the .357 SIG and 10mm are going to hang on with the .41 Mag but the .45 GAP is going to die. Will be quite awhile though. Ammo companies still make limited runs for old cartridges like the .32 Win Spl, Rem 5mm, .22 WRM even though no new guns.

CD
 
I love it. My FNP 40 is a great shooter edc and not that snappy to me. The 1911 in 45 is now my favorite edc and its also a great shooter. 41 mag is out dated and if yall have some S&W 58s or 57s yall are wanting to get rid of send em my way. They are so useless so ill take them and not charge you.
 
I never gave 40 a single thought.The reason being that up until the Obama Era I didn't worry so much about government and financial establishment failures. The more of the Constitution that was chipped away, the more worried I got. As time passed and I learned who was REALLY running our government, I began to procure the things I might need in case there was some sort of failure, to aid and protect those I love. I didn't go crazy. I just bought duty specific weapons and ammo and enough food for about a month for 5 people, and a water filtration system and a few Life Straws. To me 40 is a bastard, a fluke round with some sort of dedication and a hyped following. If there was a catastrophic event I could find 9mm and 45cal to arm myself or to trade for other needs. I may not find 40, or the quantities of the things needed would have to be minimized. 9mm is world wide and everywhere there is a pistol here in the US. I witnessed this when cleaning up an aunts house, getting it ready for auction. There was an old WWII Beretta 9mm that was so rusty the slide would no longer move and about a case of 9mm FMJ ammo. The pistol was hidden in a wrapped up towel in a box in the attic. The ammo was in a drawer of my uncle's gun cabinet. I had gun hating uncle to pass later on. Even though he was against everyone being free to own a gun if they weren't a felon, he still had a shotgun and a 9mm pistol with ammunition for them.lol Now, do another poll. See how many members and passers by that have 9mm and 45 pistols somewhere in their houses, and then think how many people who aren't active gun forum or club members who also have 45 and 9mm. Then come tell me about how I should care about 40mm.

Did the bad man that touched your butthole like 40s? You will find ammo for it and you are right about it not being as common as others but you will find it. Also if its a shtf type of thing shooting them with a forty will allow you to use what ever ammo they have so i guess all calibers would work in that situation.shoot them with a 22 and pick up a 9mm or what not.
 
All I own is .40 caliber handguns but I am definitely starting to like the extra rounds the 9mm guns hold. Especially since the 9mm round has come so far
 
I never gave 40 a single thought. Then come tell me about how I should care about 40mm.

I'll take the 40mm over ANY pistol round!
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:p:p:p:p:p


CD
 
Until I bought a G21 last month, the only semi-auto pistols I've owned for the last decade are a .40 trio: G22/G23/G27.

Big fan. It's the only round I carry except for the days I opt for my 6-shot .357.
 
It's a wonderfully flexible round for a reloader. Load it like a powderpuff 9mm or damn near 10mm powerful with a very wide range of projectiles. It's also fairly compact in diameter and length, giving it capacity close to 9mm with basically the same grip dimensions as well. With the cops getting off it, it may decline some. However, with the interest to competitive shooters and the sheer volume of 40s out there, it's not going away in the next couple decades at least. Those many thousands and thousands of GLOCKs alone aren't biodegradable...
 
Someone should count up how many billions of rounds of .40 the FedGov contracted for in the last decade... then figure all that will end up in the surplus market before Trump is done.... so, no... the 40 will be around forever. Just like 7.62x54R...

Well, the Russians consider the 7.62x54R the same way we consider the .308: a good military round when you need to reach out someone at up to 1km.

There was an old WWII Beretta 9mm that was so rusty the slide would no longer move and about a case of 9mm FMJ ammo. The pistol was hidden in a wrapped up towel in a box in the attic. The ammo was in a drawer of my uncle's gun cabinet.

Were you able to get the Beretta working? Did you end up selling it?

I'll take the 40mm over ANY pistol round!
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But then concealing carrying a few 40mm mags would be a bit of a drag. Or worse, make your pants drop to your knees thug-style... and that is a sight I sure would not want to be around to see. :eek:
 
The 9mm is my go to round. I shoot alot of 9mm. If I where to build another open gun I would build a 40 Cal. Due to it's easier way to reach major.

Do I think the 40 Cal is dead?? No. I know alot of people that love it. But I do believe it will slow down in popularity.
 
If you factor in mag capacity, grip dimensions, and solid terminal performance the .40 still holds its own. If you reload the round you'll find that it is a versatile cartridge that works up easily. Brass is usually free for the taking and bullets are everywhere for not much more than you'd pay for 9mm. I can shoot 9mm or .357 sig out of my Glocks by just swapping barrels and/or magazines. There are also some fantastic deals to be had right now if you are looking for a .40 pistol. As far as recoil, I guess I've just gotten used to it. I think .40 will eventually be .357 Sig in that it won't go away, but it will be much less popular than it has been.
 
Well, the Russians consider the 7.62x54R the same way we consider the .308: a good military round when you need to reach out someone at up to 1km.



Were you able to get the Beretta working? Did you end up selling it?

Yes, it took a while. I never expected it to shoot again, but on the outside that it would I threw it in a new paint bucket full of used motor oil. I don't know how long it stayed there exactly because tbh, I forgot about it... a month maybe? When I finally took it out of the oil and wiped it down, I was able to break it down and do a good cleaning and lube job on it. I shot it the same day, and traded it for a lil Taurus pocket pistol about two months after. M1934.... wasn't as large as a Luger, was a bit larger than a colt mustang.
 
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