.410 SBS

BigWaylon

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Seems like every couple years these things have a small pop in popularity and people jump all over them for the low price. Then we remember how crappy and fickle they are and they get fire-saled...
 
On a side note, if you put an SBS upper on an SBR lower, how does that work from a legal standpoint?
 
On a side note, if you put an SBS upper on an SBR lower, how does that work from a legal standpoint?
Well, technically there's no such thing as an "SBR lower"...because without a short barrel, you can't have a short barreled rifle. ;)

It's an SBS with that upper installed.

Now, the big question is what happens if you file a Form 1 for an SBS using a Serial Number that you already have an approved Form 1 for an SBR? Heads probably explode.

You can convert an AOW to an SBS by filing an F1, but I'm not sure in this situation. Can it be both an SBR & SBS in the registry? And the current config will determine what it is at the moment?
 
If they happened to have made it with a rifled barrel, it would be an SBR and not an SBS. I'm not seeing it described as smooth or rifled. Hmmmm....
 
Well, technically there's no such thing as an "SBR lower"...because without a short barrel, you can't have a short barreled rifle. ;)

It's an SBS with that upper installed.

Now, the big question is what happens if you file a Form 1 for an SBS using a Serial Number that you already have an approved Form 1 for an SBR? Heads probably explode.

You can convert an AOW to an SBS by filing an F1, but I'm not sure in this situation. Can it be both an SBR & SBS in the registry? And the current config will determine what it is at the moment?

Being the lower is the firearm, I disagree with that. The lower is an NFA registered item even with a 16" barrel on it. For example, as I understand it you still have to file travel papers to take it somewhere even configured as a 16"+ rifle. Regardless, what I was getting at was if you put that cut down on an SBR, is it still an SBR or is it an SBS now that you don't have a stamp for?

If they happened to have made it with a rifled barrel, it would be an SBR and not an SBS. I'm not seeing it described as smooth or rifled. Hmmmm....

I've had a couple different ones. Neither was rifled.
 
What about a lever action? Not sure what's out there but sounds like a cool idea.
 
Being the lower is the firearm, I disagree with that. The lower is an NFA registered item even with a 16" barrel on it. For example, as I understand it you still have to file travel papers to take it somewhere even configured as a 16"+ rifle. Regardless, what I was getting at was if you put that cut down on an SBR, is it still an SBR or is it an SBS now that you don't have a stamp for?
You can disagree all you want...I'm fine with that. :D

But the lower by itself is not an NFA item. If you put a 16" upper on a registered lower (including one that's been engraved, you can sell it as a GCA firearm) to anybody legal to own it without any ATF/NFA paperwork. You can cross state lines without permission. You can hunt where SBRs aren't allowed. Without a short barrel, it's not a short barreled rifle.

Additionally, you can do the same thing with the lower by itself. Sell it, or travel with it...hunting would be tough.

(If you, or anybody else reading this, wants the source for that explanation, let me know and I'll be glad to post it...not an argument, but we all can stand to learn the "why" behind some of these things)

If it didn't have a rifled barrel, I'd say you have a shotgun as it comes...or an SBS if you cut it under 18". I guess you'd have a "firearm" if you put it on a virgin lower without a stock, as I'd guess it would definitely be over 26" with the 18" barrel.

I did ask a guy I know that's been dealing with this stuff for decades, and he says this topic comes up every couple years. You can register the same lower as both an SBR & SBS with two Form 1s. If it was me, I'd build a dedicated setup. Just saying you can't get away from the $200 stamp by slapping it on an existing registered lower.
 
Got confirmation the barrel is not rifled.
 
Got confirmation the barrel is not rifled.
So if the barrel has rifling it would be a SBRifle application instead of a SBShotgun application? That makes sense as the tube is a smooth bore UNTIL you add the rifling.

Rooster
 
So if the barrel has rifling it would be a SBRifle application instead of a SBShotgun application? That makes sense as the tube is a smooth bore UNTIL you add the rifling.

Rooster
That's how I see it. If it was rifled you'd treat it as a .45 (like a Circuit Judge). But smooth bore leaves you with a shotgun.

But then you have the theory a guy floated on ARF, to say if you had an SBR with a 5.56 upper, and swapped on this upper, you have a "weapon made from a rifle"...which, by definition, is an SBR. :eek:

Everybody on the same page now? If so, let me know the page number so I can join you!!
 
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