45-70 Help

Dmax

Dmax

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So i just started reloading this year in general and started with the 45-70. I have sussefully reloaded several diffrent loads. But I alway start out by crushing a case or two. When trying to seat a bullet. Starting to piss me off and I am not sure why it's doing it. Dosent matter new brass or fired brass still happens. Trim to length, I full length size all the brass, I expand the case to where it just fits in the seating die. I have the bullet seating die all the way up and it still crushes a case. Any advice

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Well think I figured it out. So some time ago I reloaded one and didn't check the bullet seating die depth. I sent a bullet all most all the way in the case. told my self make sure you back out the seating stem all the way. So I work it down till it's touching, but it's also crimping at the same time. Then I go further down to get the COL right and smashes the crap out of it because it's got a little crimp on it.
 
Seat and crimp in separate stages. I use Lee dies and have 0 issues with them. If you don't have your seat/crimp die set perfectly while seating and crimping in one step, it will start to crimp before the bullet is completely seated and ruin your brass every time.
 

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Lyman “M” dies are well worth the money. Not only do a better job expanding the case but (IMO) keeps the bullet “straighter” going into the case. Not sure that makes a difference but it makes me feel better!
 
ImYourHuckleberry said:
Seat and crimp in separate stages. I use Lee dies and have 0 issues with them. If you don't have your seat/crimp die set perfectly while seating and crimping in one step, it will start to crimp before the bullet is completely seated and ruin your brass every time.
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Yep you nailed it
 
Yeah I use a separate crimp die. I flare generously and seat to desired depth while only taking the flare out during seating. The picture you showed I have seen when the die takes the flare out but the bullet isn’t done seating. To go fast and not have to be picky I seat and remove most of the flare with that seating die and just crimp as an additional step to make sure they’re crimped good.

EDIT: I love Lee dies and prefer them over most other Cadillac brands but I don’t load for 1000 yards either lol
 
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Yes, most seating dies will also crimp, that is most likely your problem.

To adjust, take the seating stem out. Unscrew the die from the press. Put an expanded case into the shell holder and run it up all the way. Now screw the seating die down until it just touches the case mouth, and lock the die into place. Now put the seating stem back into the die, and adjust it to get the bullet seated to the desired OAL.

At this point, decide if you want to try crimping and seating at the same time. Now that you have decided to crimp in a separate step ;) adjust the crimp die to get the desired crimp.

I really like the Lee collet style crimping dies, they are less dependent on trim length to get a consistent crimp. But, in a pinch, I have used a second Lee seating die, with the seating stem removed, to apply the crimp.
 
Having reloaded 45/70 for about 40 years I have this- your seating and crimp are done on the same die. You have the crimp part adjusted too far down and it's binding on the bullet. I've done the same exact thing when I started out. Also it helps to flare the case mouth a tad more in addition to using a chamfer tool.
 
I did a bunch of this when I started loading 45-70, pretty sure it was not enough expansion and too early crimp.
 
Dave951 said:
Having reloaded 45/70 for about 40 years I have this- your seating and crimp are done on the same die. You have the crimp part adjusted too far down and it's binding on the bullet. I've done the same exact thing when I started out. Also it helps to flare the case mouth a tad more in addition to using a chamfer tool.
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Especially with you experienced guys is there any tips or advice you can give about starting to load 45-70 I’m thinking about getting into it myself
 
I have been using RCBS 45-70 Cowboy dies (3 die set) and never had a problem. Is the Lee a 3 dies set? If not, you might want to get the expander die.
 
Well crushed 4 cases out of 25 trying to crimp. They were not 4 in a row so it would be fine then crunch. I didn't feel like I was adding to much pressure, or going to fast. I think I am going to go with the suggestion of separate dies. Or see if I can find someone to show me how to set it up the dies for each step at an LGS.
 
Dmax said:
Well crushed 4 cases out of 25 trying to crimp. They were not 4 in a row so it would be fine then crunch. I didn't feel like I was adding to much pressure, or going to fast. I think I am going to go with the suggestion of separate dies. Or see if I can find someone to show me how to set it up the dies for each step at an LGS.
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That’s usually case length is a tad longer than the casing you set up on or else case flare. Separate crimp die won’t be nearly as picky. Consistentcy is king on crimping while seating.
 
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Take an empty case and run it thru your seating/crimp die. Don't put a bullet in the case, just and empty case. Adjust your die to get the crimp where you need it.

I back the seating stem all the way out. Screw your die in about 1/4 way. Put a case in the ram and push ram up and the case should be started in the die. Screw the die down until you feel the crimp ring engage the case. Once they meet, give the die about half a turn. That should get you in the ballpark for setting the crimp.
Back the case out and put bullet on top and the push the ram down raising the case I to the die. Don't push it past the crimp. Now start screwing the seating stem down to get the bullet seated where the crimp will be in the crimp groove.

It may take a few cases and bullets to get ut adjusted. Just pull the bullets and run the brass back thru the other dies to get it back to normal.
 
If this is mixed brass, have you sorted out the Hornady brass? It is often short and if you set dies based on short brass then all the standard brass will crumple.
 
GymB said:
If this is mixed brass, have you sorted out the Hornady brass? It is often short and if you set dies based on short brass then all the standard brass will crumple.
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Got lucky the other day found a bag of new winchester brass. New brass and I trim and measure the new brass get the all as close as posable in length.
 
cold1 said:
Take an empty case and run it thru your seating/crimp die. Don't put a bullet in the case, just and empty case. Adjust your die to get the crimp where you need it.

I back the seating stem all the way out. Screw your die in about 1/4 way. Put a case in the ram and push ram up and the case should be started in the die. Screw the die down until you feel the crimp ring engage the case. Once they meet, give the die about half a turn. That should get you in the ballpark for setting the crimp.
Back the case out and put bullet on top and the push the ram down raising the case I to the die. Don't push it past the crimp. Now start screwing the seating stem down to get the bullet seated where the crimp will be in the crimp groove.

It may take a few cases and bullets to get ut adjusted. Just pull the bullets and run the brass back thru the other dies to get it back to normal.
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Thanks!!!! That really helps, I am a step by step kind of guy, appreciate it.
 
cold1 said:
Take an empty case and run it thru your seating/crimp die. Don't put a bullet in the case, just and empty case. Adjust your die to get the crimp where you need it.

I back the seating stem all the way out. Screw your die in about 1/4 way. Put a case in the ram and push ram up and the case should be started in the die. Screw the die down until you feel the crimp ring engage the case. Once they meet, give the die about half a turn. That should get you in the ballpark for setting the crimp.
Back the case out and put bullet on top and the push the ram down raising the case I to the die. Don't push it past the crimp. Now start screwing the seating stem down to get the bullet seated where the crimp will be in the crimp groove.

It may take a few cases and bullets to get ut adjusted. Just pull the bullets and run the brass back thru the other dies to get it back to normal.
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^^What he said


I use RCBS dies for my 45/70 and 50/70
 
I do it in a slightly different way. Load the round all the way up to seating the bullet. Sizing, primer, powder and everything up to the bullet. Screw the seating die in a good way but not far enough so that the case mouth engages the crimping shoulder in the die. Screw the seating stem down fairly far so you can use the dies to seat the bullet without having the case crimped. Put the bullet on the mouth of the case and begin seating it just a bit at a time until you get it to the depth you want. All you want to do is to get the bullet seated to the proper depth without engaging the crimping shoulder. Screw the seating stem out about as far as it can go. Raise the round up into the die and begin screwing the die down until the crimping shoulder hits the mouth of the case. Screw the die in a very small bit at a time until you get the amount of crimp you want. Crimping should not take much force. A gentle nudge is all that is needed. Enough is enough. More is not better and can mess up things. Lock down the die with the round up inside it and lower the seating stem until it hits the bullet. Give the seating stem a gentle nudge and lock it down. The die should now be adjusted to seat and apply a crimp in one step. I actually prefer to seat and crimp in separate steps in most situations, but seating and crimping can be done with careful adjustments.

45/70 rifles are fun. I load most of my rounds with lead bullets to the lower pressure suggested for Trap Door Springfields but load some heftier loads with jacketed bullets for my lever actions and falling blocks if I want to go hunting.

edit: I also use RCBS dies.
 
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Charlie said:
45/70 rifles are fun. I load most of my rounds with lead bullets to the lower pressure suggested for Trap Door Springfields but load some heftier loads with jacketed bullets for my lever actions and falling blocks if I want to go hunting.

edit: I also use RCBS dies.
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Thanks that helpful, I would like to eventually cast my own led. Not even sure where to start with that. Do all cast bullets have that copper backing on the bullet? or can you load straight lead?
 
Dmax said:
Thanks that helpful, I would like to eventually cast my own led. Not even sure where to start with that. Do all cast bullets have that copper backing on the bullet? or can you load straight lead?
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That’s a gas check. I powdercoat my lead and go extra thick on the back and don’t gas check.If ya were closer to me I’d show ya how to cast and let ya make some of your own but Gastonia is a haul.
 
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Dmax said:
Thanks that helpful, I would like to eventually cast my own led. Not even sure where to start with that. Do all cast bullets have that copper backing on the bullet? or can you load straight lead?
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You can get molds for bullets with or without gas checks. Putting on a gas check is no big deal when you size and lube the bullets you have cast. Gas checks let you push a lead alloy bullet a bit faster.
 
SINNER said:
That’s a gas check. I powdercoat my lead and go extra thick on the back and don’t gas check.If ya were closer to me I’d show ya how to cast and let ya make some of your own but Gastonia is a haul.
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I might have to take you up on that offer, if I am working in that area.
 
at ~ 20c/per the 405gr coated lead and hard cast lead from SNS are hard to beat. Accurate enough for fun on paper from a trapdoor springfield.
Lyman M die or equivalent is a must for loading coated lead in 45/70. I only crimp just enough to remove the flare from the M Die.
 
Casting is whole nother level of "gee let's try this" and "oooo look at that mold design" 😁

Yep, I've got several molds for the same caliber just because the bullets they make look COOL!!!

Casting is easy to get started in. Something to heat your lead up and a mold. You can get as technical as you want to in the hobby.

I have lee bottom pour pot and I started with Lee molds. I use liquid alox and tumble lube my bullets.

I can put gas checks on, but I just shoot them without. Without gas checks you can't push them as fast due to leading of your barrel.

In my 45-70 I dont push them past 1300FPS.
 
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