556 vs 300blk in pistol configuration

Discussion in 'Long Guns' started by BU2scwMJL, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:43 AM.

  1. BU2scwMJL

    BU2scwMJL I have gun ADD(iction) Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    Someone skool me in the pros and cons of 556 vs 300blk in an AR pistol. I'm going to make one, most likely 556, but have seen a lot in 300blk and am wondering what, if anything, would make it a better choice.
     
  2. Love2shoot

    Love2shoot Stay Gray

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    Im sure the experts will chime in but when I researched this I found really anything shorter than a 10.5 barrel youd be better with 300blk because of ballistics. Also muzzle blast and suppressor option is much better with the 300. I went with a 10.5 5.56 and am very happy with it, and can always just throw on any upper to convert.
     
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  3. Mustang Jon

    Mustang Jon New Member

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    I'm planning on building a 10.5 in 5.56 and getting an upper in 300 later so I don't have to choose.
     
  4. Pink_Vapor

    Pink_Vapor Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Truck gun/HD <10” 300BLK
    Plinker/blaster 556 due to ammo prices.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019 at 8:20 AM
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  5. BU2scwMJL

    BU2scwMJL I have gun ADD(iction) Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    That's what I'm making it for PV, truck gun
     
  6. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    As mentioned above...
    As far as ballistics
    <10.5 inches go with .300
    >10.5 inches go with 5.56/223

    Though, realistically, even at the speeds you get out of a 5.56 under 10.5 inches it will be pretty darn devastating to anything/anyone under 100 yards. I love everything about .300 AAC except the price of the ammo.
     
  7. Ikarus1

    Ikarus1 Avtomat Krishna-kov

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  8. BU2scwMJL

    BU2scwMJL I have gun ADD(iction) Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    That's the only thing that's really holding me back from 300 is the price of ammo.
     
  9. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    And it is a real issue...most people who shoot it a lot get into reloading, so barring that you are at minimum looking at .37-.40$ per round (usually reman stuff), where as .223 is going to be about .17 per round for plinking stuff. So stockpiling enough for a long haul is more difficult.

    Another main reason people go with .300AAC is because it is easy to slow the bullet down to get to sub-sonic speeds for adding cans.

    So...I guess in short...if you are wanting to add a can, or don't mind paying a premium for ammo then .300 is the way to go. If you just want something that is fun to shoot, still accurate and packs more punch than a pistol at <100 yards then go with the 5.56.

    Again, don't get me wrong, the .300AAC is a hoot to shoot. Its a real thumper and has a much different recoil impulse than .223. Reminds me more of the push of an AK than the snap of an AR. And under 100 or so yards I like the bullet size. But you have to ask yourself, are those enough of a tradeoff over 5.56 to make it worth it.

    (Also...if you don't like it...just sell the upper, replace with 5.56 and carry on...)
     
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  10. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    OK, we had to answer what the mission of the firearm is, and you did so...........

    Pros and Cons....For the mission stated, longer ranges are not part of the equation.

    Any cartridge is only as effective as the bullet you choose to accomplish your mission. Choose poorly, or in some cases, "cheaply" and you risk failure with any cartridge, regardless of how wonderful it may be. It is only as good as the bullet. The Bullet does all the Heavy lifting you might say.........

    I have seen many many failures over the years because the shooter did not choose the right bullet.

    With that said, and understood, I hand load every piece of ammo I have. If I have factory ammo on hand, its because I bought it to test with only. Now of course, that does not include some stock of certain things, 22 lr, 9mm FMJ, and a few others such as that we all get good deals on from time to time. But when it gets very serious, I depend on the Hand Loads, with very serious bullets. Bullets I know and have tested both on the range, and in the field on animal tissue.

    I have both 223 and 300 BLK in 10.5 inch guns. To remain "ballistically effective" as Love2shoot stated 10.5 inches or so is the magic barrel length.

    In 223 I load a 50 Raptor that hovers around 54000 PSI tested. In 26 inch barrels it runs 3360 fps, 20 inch barrels 3260 fps, various 16 inch barrels 3020 to 3080 fps, I have an 11 inch gun it runs 2830 fps, and various other 10.5 inch guns at or around 2780 fps on average. This bullet is very effective at short range and 2780 fps. Tested in one 7.5 inch gun, not mine, someone else, the same load was at 2400 fps, and I don't think nearly as effective as it should or could be. So for sure, 10.5 inches is bottom end in 223 in my opinion.

    I did test Federal 55 FMJ Factory in the 7.5 inch gun at 2120 fps! Not hitting on much there at all.....I have never bothered with other tests with this stuff........It is not an effective solution.

    With other bullets, common 55 Softs and such, common loads you still get 2600 fps in 10.5 inches, pick a decent expanding bullet, that does not blow to pieces like Hornady Softs, or Barnes TSX and you can keep velocities in the 2600-2700 fps range at 10.5 inches without much issue.

    With 300 BLK in my opinion, you gain significantly with the added caliber. Caliber makes one hell of a difference. And we are not talking long range for this mission.

    In 300 BLK I load a 100 Raptor at 54000-55000 PSI tested. This load is extremely accurate, and it is extremely effective, far more so than the 223 load with the 50 Raptor. This load has been used on numerous deer/hogs and even bear with extreme results. The 50 Raptor in 223 is extremely effective as well, FOR A 223. But, it is not .308 caliber.................

    I run the 100 Raptor at 2525-2550 fps in various 16 inch guns. 12 inch guns at 2430 fps, I have a several 10.5 inch guns and it runs from 2370-2400 fps in the various guns. Drop to 8 inches it runs 2275-2300 fps. It is extremely effective.

    Second favorite on the list is the 110 Barnes TAC. I have a tested load for it that runs 2400 and change in 16 inch guns and around 2250 in various 10.5 inch guns. It also has the same POI as the 100 Raptor in most guns.

    Another decent, and cheaper bullet is the 110 Hornady Zombie bullet. I buy these 500 to a box and load a few for plinking and shooting. In most guns it has close to the same POI as the Raptor and the Barnes. It is decent in its terminal performance, and would do rather well on well rotted Zombies.

    Bottom line as far as I am concerned, to get the very top end performance out of either of the cartridges, you really need to load for them. I always go for top end performance above everything else, I have seen too many failures of various bullets, once that trigger is pressed!

    If anyone is interested, I am more than happy to point in the right direction with loads, bullets and where to get what you need to make it right...........

    What do I carry and keep close by? A 10.5 inch 300 BLK loaded with 100 Raptors............

    Remember, its the Bullet............... How does one increase or enhance the performance of any cartridge? The Bullet.
     
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  11. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Well, that's it? Damn I can kill a thread eh?................ Nothing from anyone? Want to chat about bullets? Load? Anything? Just nothing......................

    You boys not much on dialog around here...... LOL..........

    Kidding, was hoping for some discussion on the subject, questions, something..... But its too damn late now, going to Roost...........
     
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  12. BU2scwMJL

    BU2scwMJL I have gun ADD(iction) Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    Sorry bro, my wife got me distracted lol i read your very thorough post, and I considered a lot of things in it especially the muzzle velocity of 556 out of particular barrel lengths. I think I'm going to go with a 12" version of my gas piston. I like how it operates and it's 1:7 so it'll still give good velocity to the bullet. Thoughts? @Michael458
     
  13. rantingredneck

    rantingredneck ....glutton for punishment..... Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    I have 10.5" pistols set up identically in 5.56 and .300BLK. Plink and train with the 5.56 the .300 is for social work.
     
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  14. BU2scwMJL

    BU2scwMJL I have gun ADD(iction) Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    I may will eventually move to 300blk I just don't have the money for a "decent" amount of ammo, and by decent I mean at least 2k rounds. With .40c being the average for the "good" stuff that's $800+ and I just can't do it right now. Eventually, absolutely, been wanting to for a bit. I don't feel like getting random 20rd boxes here and there either. Plus I gotta get my rifle skills back up to par.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019 at 8:51 PM
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  15. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    I’ll play devils advocate here...

    I say go for it: you don’t >need< 2,000 rounds on hand. At least not all at once.

    I’ll explain...because I have time and feel like playing the “what if game”.

    This .300AAC you are putting together is a truck gun. It is meant to be the gun you grab when things go south. So what are the main scenarios you would need it:

    1. Immediate pew pew/active shooter/self defense: a full military combat load is like 200-300 rounds...so, just keep 10 mags loaded and in a gear bag in the car.

    2. SHTF get home Gun: as above...with your get home bag and everything you will have 10 mags in the car, so carry whatever you want to get home. Once home, if it is truly a SHTF scenario, then grab your ballistically superior full sized AR for social work. This pistol is meant to be stop gap between pistol and rifle. Not a replacement for them.

    Practice? Shoot it enough to ensure zero, ensure reliability, and then practice with your cheaper 5.55/223. It’s the same as carrying .357 magnum and practicing with .38 special. The platforms are going to be identical in their manual of arms.

    So...start off with 300 rounds...get your 10 stocked up, and then from there just replace what you shoot and buy more when you feel like it.

    Personally, I really only keep 4 dedicated .300 AAC mags loaded. I am too fat to be firing and maneuvering for too long, so I have no illusions of surviving a long lasting running gun battle. And if it happens at home, I have other options.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  16. rantingredneck

    rantingredneck ....glutton for punishment..... Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    My trunk gun has a 20 round mag in it and 4 30s with it. Im not looking for a fight but looking to get out of one and get home.
     
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  17. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Gotta luv it when your wife distracts you huh? :p
     
  18. BU2scwMJL

    BU2scwMJL I have gun ADD(iction) Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    She called me while she was in on lunch and I totally forgot what I was doing. Lol
     
  19. Friday

    Friday Polite-Knock raid Charter Member Supporting Member

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    I chose 556 simply because of ammo cost. I shoot a lot out back and I like my black guns.
    And I like the wee 7" barrel too. I knew ballistics were gonna suck, (comparatively) but I chose to go more 'pistol' than go for superior ballistics. I don't hunt, I built it to be a 50 yard gun and it does that real well.
     
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  20. Ikarus1

    Ikarus1 Avtomat Krishna-kov

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    2200fps out of a 7.5 barrel with a 55gr soft point will penetrate level IIIA armor, and expand while doing so......arguably better than the FN 5.7x28 round from the P90 sub gun, and still holds 30+ rounds. Mine is pretty neat with the D60 Magpul drum since it fits nicely in a gym bag, etc.

    stolen shameless from Hunter @ Rangehot.com

    [​IMG]

    Certainly more effective than any normal non-magnum pistol round.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019 at 11:41 PM
  21. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    That's more like it. Get in the office this morning and here we have a great discussion, and with many valid points all the way through. Well done gents.

    BU2scwMJL, my thoughts are that with the right "bullet" that your setup will be very effective, and it will serve its purpose. Back in the day, long before there were such nifty items that we have today, I kept a well worn and well shot Ruger Mini behind the seat. It rode many a mile back when I was really out working. I can't remember how many magazines I had, probably 4 or so. I never felt like I was coming up short. And as stated I have both types that you discussed, both 223 and 300BLK.... I know that as in all things, caliber and bullet choice make a big difference, and in this case, 300 BLK comes out on top for this type mission because of that. Does not mean that the 223 can't or won't, just that the 300 BLK is more effective.

    For you or anyone else, the best advice I can give anyone is to make some investment in hand loading, this will enhance ones capabilities greatly. This will give you the opportunity to have the very best ammo and bullet that is available. Somewhere below I will try and show you what I load, and what it costs, while its not cheap by any stretch, there is no doubt it is the best available, and we have seen it work in animal tissue, deer/hogs and such as that.....

    Ikarus1 makes an incredible good point with this statement.....

    223/300BLK is extremely more effective than our standard firearm same size in 9mm. I love the little 9s, I have several of these and they are just great for many things. No matter what "Almost", take a 9mm AR at 7-10 inches and its running 115s-124s or whatever at 1200 fps, standard ammo gaining zero with barrel length. Say 115 anything in 9mm at 1200 fps. Now, enter 223 with nearly anything in 10.5 inches at 2600 to 2800 fps! Take 300 BLK with my 100 Raptor at 2370-2400 fps! You do not need be a terminal ballistics expert to see the difference here.

    I have a 9mm 90 Raptor load that does gain with barrel length, and that load is running 1600 fps from 7.5-8 inch barrels, and its wicked, but even it cannot compare to effectiveness of 223/.308.
     
  22. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Extremely good points........... These platforms are so great to work with, if one has limited funds, one lower, two uppers and do as Booger says. He is correct, for the mission, you don't have to have 2000 rounds laying around, you need 250-300 rounds to get you home, or to the next step. Very workable and viable.

    And then I would work on my Hand Loading Capabilities. Equipment and supplies...........Then you can start increasing your ammo for the Zombies........
     
  23. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Most of my experience in the field is hunting. Most of that is with big bore rifles, and most of that at .458-.500 caliber. Believe me, those are effective in the extreme. The bullet technology we developed for those guns filtered down to all calibers, because it was so effective. I turned that Tech over to Cutting Edge Bullets because they helped every step of the way to develop these and worked with me at every step to get what I required in the field. As time went on, this technology filtered straight on down to small bore, including 308 and 223. In no stretch is small bore as effective in the field as big bore, small bore serves an entirely different purpose. And one has to look at the choices available in that caliber/or cartridge to make direct comparisons, which I have done on many occasions. Test work was all done here in the beginning. We used a mix of wet print, with magazines inserted every 10 inches. The magazines believe it or not, made this mix 35% tougher than straight wet print, and it is tough on bullets, far tougher than animal tissue, and far more dense. What we learned doing this test work is that the Bullet Behavior is exactly the same in the mix as it is in animal tissue. In animal tissue with expanding conventional bullets you would get anything from 50% to 70% deeper penetration in animal tissue than you do in the test medium. With Solids the increase is smaller, 35% more penetration in animal tissue than the mix. With Raptors, they are Non-Conventional, this hovers around 100% more penetration than the mix. Those are basic rules of thumb, animal tissue has some obstacles like bone that can really screw a bullet and its performance in some cases. In other cases, bone enhances the effects.

    Today, we are talking about "Raptors"........ during the test work they were referred to as "Non-Cons" short for Non-Conventional. We were the first here to understand exactly how they work, and that took not only test work here, but field observations as well. The first trip out with these I shot 40 some animals from impala to zebra with these, and that was an extreme learning experience. But this was also with larger calibers.

    This is how a "Raptor" works.

    Raptors are CNC machined bullets, more common in Brass. Today there are nearly equal bullets made in copper. Brass is far more brittle as we know, copper more malleable. Once a Raptor starts Terminal Penetration, after 1.5 to 2 inches 6 blades shear off the main bullet, all at the same point in time. This alone is a violent, explosive event at the point of shear. These are NOT PETALS, I refer to them as blades because they cut and slice their way through tissue or test medium. They do not push or plow, they slice and cut. Blades on big bore bullets normally are found 6-8 inches inside the test medium. To give you an Idea of how much that is, 9mm and 45 ACP conventional expanding bullets can only go from 4-5 inches in this test medium, and now you have a blade off of big bore Raptor that is found at 6-8 inches!!!!!! .358 caliber + blades will exit far side of deer, and or found in the hide far side of broadside deer, blades, not bullet!

    Once Shear occurs, these blades work close with the center remaining bullet. We know that when a bullet passes through animal tissue, the tissue expands away from center, and then collapses back once the bullet passes. For the first 4 inches of penetration AFTER SHEAR POINT, the blades are slicing and dicing that expanding tissue, making it a permanent cavity, that is shredded by the blades. All the while the center bullet is driving deep and straight, as it is now a broken beer bottle wad cutter. In smaller calibers the blades stay closer to the main bullet and will only radiate away from center about 2-4 inches on average. In larger calibers, these blades can radiate away as far as 10-12 inches from center. Once they radiate away to 4-5 inches they are no longer working close with the center bullet, and become secondary projectiles, slicing and dicing on their own. All the while, the center remaining blunt force trauma bullet stays on path until it exits, and they exit in most all cases depending on the shot of course.

    This process occurs every single time no matter what, there is very little deviation from the above explained behavior. It does occur in Aqueous Material, it does not do as much in DRY material. But all the purpose of these I have used in Aqueous material, animal tissue. I can kill dry stuff with solids.......

    Even the lowly tiny little 50 gr Raptor from 223 will exit broadside deer. The 100 Raptor has taken two large 300 lb plus black bears in 300 BLK and those exited bear. None have ever been recovered in deer..

    Now if you use these in the field, remember, they are not going to look like your normal wound channel. Up front, entry the hole is going to be larger than your exit. In some cases, bigger bores, extreme. I have seen rib cages on entry that you can put your fist through easy. On exit, it is CALIBER size, and looks like a wadcutter cut through the skin.. In between is MUSH. I recently had a fellow shoot a deer with a 100 Raptor in 308 at 3200 fps. I forget the range exactly. But it was a heart shot, when they opened up the deer, there was NO HEART. It was gone. They found some small pieces of it and that was it.

    These bullets are extreme to say the least.

    In this photo of wet print, you see exactly how they work in the medium... Blades are in a star pattern around the center bullet...........

    [​IMG]

    And in this pile of animal internals you see the same star pattern...........Naturally this is a larger caliber Raptor.

    [​IMG]

    These are extremely devastating bullets, and they work the same every single time. There is no upper end of velocity. And they love velocity. More velocity, more devastation and more penetration.
     
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  24. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Another great bullet is the 110 Barnes TAC...... and TTSX... TAC is designed for 300 BLK.......More expansion at lower velocity as you can see below.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    These are adequate...........

    [​IMG]

    I don't care too much for this one......

    [​IMG]

    A early version of the Raptor in ESP....... Later I requested to remove the "Solid" portion of this bullet and make it a standard Flat Base bullet, more conducive for 300 BLK

    [​IMG]

    I no longer use the ESP Raptor in 100 gr, I opt for the new Flat Base and buy them in bulk. Recently took in an order of 2500 of them.......

    [​IMG]

    Example of the FB compared to the ESP Version.........

    [​IMG]

    We tested the Lehigh Extreme Chaos Bullet back in March in 300 BLK....... It actually did better than I thought it was going to do. It works basically the same way as the Raptor, but designed to have larger blades, but here they act more as petals. Very destructive, but possibly little bit limited in penetration.

    [​IMG]

    This is a decent bullet and held together........

    [​IMG]

    In some early tests with the 100 Raptor I had not got velocity up to its current state at 2525-2550 fps in 16 inch guns.........And it has slightly less depth of penetration than the ESP at this velocity. This test was at 50 yards, or 45 yard impact....... So velocity was down at that point as well.........

    [​IMG]


    I buy these in bulk, both 50 Raptor in 223 and 100 Raptor in .308, normally 2500 at a time.........

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    For some comparisons a few 223 tests as well.........

    [​IMG]

    This is what you DO NOT WANT.........

    [​IMG]

    Some of the very early first tests with the Raptors....... at that time, Non-Con

    [​IMG]

    These are very low velocity shear tests......> Not full velocity loads. Working our way up in velocity you can see the difference in performance.............
    This is the 55 gr Raptor, not sure its still in production or not. The better more versatile choice is the 50 Raptor. 55s are too long to be Tipped and work in
    standard magazines. They are non tipped only, unless of course you are running a bolt gun.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    There is a very good and wicked little 40 gr Raptor. I have some of these, but overall opt for the 50s..............Friends have shot several deer with this
    40 Raptor at high velocity and results were extreme..........DRT extreme.............

    [​IMG]

    And my favorite the 50 Raptors..........

    [​IMG]

    I had a few of these laying around years ago, and for giggles here is the 36 Barnes Grenades, not sure if these are even made now?

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Best thing I can convey to any of you, or anyone, Hand Load, make the investment to do so, it opens up an entire World Of Performance for you................
     
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  27. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    ...handloading...aint yet met a ruffian worth my time and effort for a handload...best they deserve is Tula...maybe Wolf if Ima feelin generous...
     
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  28. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    HEH....... Well, that is a point. Just feed them a lot of them to equal one of mine........! That's how I figure it. Ain't math good!

    I will stand with Handloading for anything worth feeding in my stuff..........

    Of course, I love hand loading ammo, so you gotta love it. And, it don't have anything to do with being cheaper, its more expensive...........

    I use Processed Brass from Everglades

    This 5.56 Processed Military Brass is fully processed. Cleaned, resized, deprimed, swaged and trimmed. Ready to load. Brass is once fired military auction brass in excellent condition. Appears to be predominantly Lake City and FC. $265 per 2500 pieces or .106 each........

    50 Raptor Cutting Edge $56/50..... but I buy BULK, and I get a hell of a discount because I helped design it........I believe the last 2500 I bought were around $0.80 each........

    That is basically $0.90 each without the powder/primer..............

    Roughly the 300 BLK is about the same...........

    But I know without any doubt at all, it is #1 top of the list in Terminal Performance in that cartridge.

    Now one does not need several 1000 of these on hand unless you are totally OCD like me. You can get by with far less and then go to other bullets for bulk, but FMJ is not hitting on much of anything.... Have to use a lot of those to equal up..........
     
  29. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Oh, no doubt bud. I was just messin with ya. I load my own at times too. But not as much since family life has gotten so hectic. In the mean time, Ill choot em with the best I can buy. Except carnies...carnies get tulammo.
     
  30. Michael458

    Michael458 Active Member

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    Hey Booger......... I love to load, great satisfaction doing my own, always have. When I was hunting hard, I never went to the field with Factory Ammo, would not even consider it.

    I am not as bad with 9mm and 45 ACP..... I will stuff factory stuff in, especially 9mm...... and roll on with it. I am not such a great fan of loading 223, they don't fit my fingers, but I get in the mood once and awhile and load a bunch of them. I have 2500 pieces of 223 prepped and ready to load, but I also have 3500 pieces or more of 300 BLK to jump on! When not doing other things, I will load a few hundred and put them away. My big issue is my local guys and pals needing resupply, back in hunting season I found I had doled out over 600 rounds of 300BLK to them!!!!!!! I felt like I needed to catch up my stock a little bit! So did just that.

    My guys are dead hooked on that 100 Raptor in 300 BLK and 308 Winchester. That is all they hunt with during hunting season........ I won't post photos, since I don't have permission, or names, but below is a few comments made. We once spoke about the 300BLK being a perfect kid gun for hunting, and it is without doubt. I have a friend in NC BTW, that is a a hunter, and he has a 10 yr old boy that is right with him every step. I put my friend on the 100 Raptor in 300BLK and the 10 yr old shot a good bear with it... here are the comments on that......


    The 100 gr raptor over 20.1 grains of Lil gun worked quite well. 300+ Lb boar taken at 70 yards and the base was a complete pass through including smashing a scapula. The bear went no more than 20 feet and was dead when we got to him. Thanks for the advice fro the 100 grain Raptor, they work well on whatever they hit:) My son who shot it is in the picture and is actually sitting on the bear, he was so excited I couldn’t get him off it.

    Another friend of mine in NC that took a big trophy deer on his place.....

    I have an area on the farm that always seems to have a big deer. I noticed that there were more tracks and signs of activity in this area again this year. I wanted to try the 300 Blackout on something besides paper for a change. I used the rifle I set up first for just supersonic loads with 19.0gr of H110 and the original 100gr Raptor. I shot the deer slightly quartering away at 60yds. The bullet went in behind the left shoulder and exited center of the right shoulder. The top of the heart was gone and the lungs looked like jello run thru a blender. This deer weighed just over 200lbs live weight.

    And his grandson shot another deer with it in 300BLK......

    My grandson’s first deer taken this morning at 7:00AM. He was shooting one of my 300 blackouts with the suppressor and 100gr Raptors. He shot it at 75yds off shooting sticks which was incredible to me. He was shaking so hard the first time he stood up to the rifle and looked thru the scope that I had him sit back down and just watch the deer for a few minutes. When he stood up the second time he was all business. Facing us at 75yds, he shot it center of the neck and down it went DRT. Logan is 10.

    I have a local friend that has kids too that shoot 300BLK, I keep them supplied in proper ammo and of course that is the 100 Raptor. His 12 yr old daughter shot a 200 lb hog with it.....

    Syd shot this 200lb hog tonight at 70 yards in the shoulder with the 300 blackout Raptor. He bled like crazy and went about 15 yards.

    They all went on one of those big trophy deer hunts in Texas this past fall. They all used 308s loaded with 100 Raptors. Three shot big trophy deer, one did run 15 steps and fell over, the other two were DRT on the spot. Then they shot a bunch of cull and doe deer, all DRT on the spot. They shot javelina, same story, DRT. My friend Kyle had 3 javelin lined up at a corn pile. He shot all three, one shot, they all three were DRT on the spot, and the damn base of the bullet exited the third one in the row.....LOL.....

    Yeah, I think these bullets are the right choice, and would put an end to hostilities pretty quickly. I am a peaceful sort of fellow, and would rather end any hostilities as quickly as possible.

    All good stuff and many many good ideas and thoughts from everyone..........
     
  31. wsfiredude

    wsfiredude Can't starve us out; Can't make us run Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Built a 10.3 in 5.56 a few months ago. So far, I’m really pleased with it. I’m in the process of doing some handload r&d...just gotta get a chrono to test what I have loaded.