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AR10ShooterinNC

AR10ShooterinNC

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Modern 38 special vs 357 mag brass, The NRA publication “Handloading” (c1981) in the “Standard Cartridge and Chamber Dimensions” on page 296 & 298 shows the .38 Spl and the .357 Mag cases to be identical, including the wall and web thickness (.200“) with the exception of the length. The .357 case is .135” longer.

With the case heads the same, I should be able to load the shorter 38 special to almost 357 mag levels. I'm interested in loading hot 38 specials for use in a lever gun. Is there any data out in the internet, or has anybody tried? I'm going to make a politically correct urban defense rifle. I would like to use 38 special cases as you can get one more round in the gun, then when using 357 mag cases.

I own zero 38 special only guns, so mixing up the loads is not a concern for me. I understand it can be for others.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
Modern 38 special vs 357 mag brass, The NRA publication “Handloading” (c1981) in the “Standard Cartridge and Chamber Dimensions” on page 296 & 298 shows the .38 Spl and the .357 Mag cases to be identical, including the wall and web thickness (.200“) with the exception of the length. The .357 case is .135” longer.

With the case heads the same, I should be able to load the shorter 38 special to almost 357 mag levels. I'm interested in loading hot 38 specials for use in a lever gun. Is there any data out in the internet, or has anybody tried? I'm going to make a politically correct urban defense rifle. I would like to use 38 special cases as you can get one more round in the gun, then when using 357 mag cases.

I own zero 38 special only guns, so mixing up the loads is not a concern for me. I understand it can be for others.
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Don’t do it. If you need one more round, you are already screwed!


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I assume you have something like a Marlin lever action. Great rifles. I had one that I wanted to use in Cowboy shooting but found that it would only hold 9 rounds of 357 and would not feed as well with 38 Special rounds. I gave it to a friend. Some of those lever rifles can be very sensitive about overall length. I would rather have reliable feeding than one more round. The only way you can tell for sure is to try 38 Special rounds in your rifle. That being said, you can find 38 Special +p data for 38 Special cases, but I hope you will not find any data that will duplicate 357 Magnum maximum rounds for 38 Special. That is heading out into Indian territory where bad things can happen very quickly without warning. Is it possible to get the right amount of the right powder in a 38 Special case to equate a 357 Magnum max load? It probably is. I would not try to find it myself unless I had much better pressure testing gear than I have. That lower volume in the 38 Special case can become significant at max loadings.
 
In theory I’d think you’re fine, but with the reduced case volume, no published data, and the inability to measure pressure, how will you know when you’re approaching 357 mag level loads?
 
JimB said:
In theory I’d think you’re fine, but with the reduced case volume, no published data, and the inability to measure pressure, how will you know when you’re approaching 357 mag level loads?
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I figured I would use W296, even in 357 mag case you can't put enough to over pressure it. I was planning to work up with a chrono to a full case of W296 in the 38 special case.
 
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The distance the bullet has to jump and align will not give the accuracy one can get with the .357.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
I figured I would use W296, even in 357 mag case you can't put enough to over pressure it. I was planning to work up with a chrono to a full case of W296 in the 38 special case.
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W296 is not a good powder for downloading, it works well only in a pretty narrow pressure range. I say that only because while working up you should expect a geometric change, that is it’ll perform really poorly until you hit the target pressure, and it’ll maybe go overpressure just as fast. Work up very slowly.

38 spcl +P with a good defensive bullet is gonna do what you want, I’d play with that first and see if it feeds.

in the alternative there are always rifle caliber lever guns.
 
JimB said:
how will you know when you’re approaching 357 mag level loads?
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Send me some and I'll let you know what the pressure is.

Your chosen platform may or may not feed your chosen load but the problem you have will never be from the cartridge. The .38 Special is a 100+ year old Genius of a cartridge. The modern cases will do Anything you will ever expect a .38 to do.
 
I don't understand why you don't just use .357 cases for .357 loads in your lever gun. Is it chambered for .38 special only?
 
I personally would not go past 38 +p in a 38 case, otherwise I would use 357mag brass. I would pick whatever feeds well and shoots accurately in your rifle.
 
My lever action 38/357 will feed 38s if I keep the gun vertical. If I turn is to the side I will have some problems. Same thing with my 44spl/mag. Both guns I need the longest 38/44 special bullet that I can get. Found some 170 grn 38s and they work the best.
 
Me. said:
That said.... a defensive lever gun with handloads would be about my very last choice in a defensive gun. Plus, all that work to hold an extra round or two?
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I do travel at times, having a none AR style gun is good in many states. Most people and LEO's do not take the lever gun as offensive. If I have gone from my handgun in self defense situation to my rifle, handloads are least of my worries. I do carry and use factory ammo in my self defense handgun.
 
If you want to do the research on this forum or the last one (I forget which it was) I did a thread on the "38 Magnum" that was a hot 38 that was just below 357 and I wanted to use it in a J frame Mod 60.
 
Toprudder said:
I personally would not go past 38 +p in a 38 case, otherwise I would use 357mag brass. I would pick whatever feeds well and shoots accurately in your rifle.
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I did not mean to imply that a 38spl case would not hold 357 pressure. I just don’t like the idea of making a potential time bomb for somebody else. Just as @Me. pointed out, the 357 is longer to prevent that mistake.
 
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Toprudder said:
I did not mean to imply that a 38spl case would not hold 357 pressure. I just don’t like the idea of making a potential time bomb for somebody else. Just as @Me. pointed out, the 357 is longer to prevent that mistake.
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I think this falls under do not use anybody but your own reloads. In the name of safety, I will add a note on my label stating these are not for use in 38 special only guns.
 
Like someone said, "all this for one more round"??????????????
As loud as the 357 is going to be, anybody hanging around, IMHO one more round would not matter. Time for your secondary weapon, a handgun with a 32 round capacity with a spare magazine. You should be good to day light or the police get there.
 
Rounds look very similar to each other, and it is sometimes very hard to tell a reload from a factory load once they are taken out of their packages. I would not knowingly want to make a round that would be dangerous in a barrel labeled for that chambering. That is one reason
I like a 44 Magnum for my heavy loads and only load 45 Colt rounds that I can shoot out of any of my revolvers.
 
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