All tile bathroom demolition?

[fieldgrade]

The small master bath in my 1971 home is in need of work. Surface of the floor tiles is worn off, and the shower tiles have cracks running through them (rather than the grout joints).

It's all tile throughout laid on top of about 1.5 inches of concrete/mortar. It's like a bank vault in there.

Also tile walls up to about 4', and the entire tub sized shower stall including the ceiling of the shower stall.

I cut some out to put a new shower pan in 8 years ago and it was shocking how much, and how heavy it was to haul out for what little I removed.

I used a grinder to cut the grout joints the last time, and busted it out with a blacksmith hammer.

To do the whole bathroom will require MUCH more gressive techniques, and a construction dumpster, I guess.

Ideas?

 

[Chdamn]

Whenever I've done lap and mortar with tile bathroom renovations I have always sledge hammered all of it out and started over. It's labor intensive but the finished product will be better.

If the tiles are chipping and that worn there's a better than average chance the lap and mortar is cracked underneath. Maybe not but removing it all and putting up hardi board will help ensure a much longer life.

 

[foopid stucker]

I would smash it all out, get an honest level and furr out all the studs to true, and square the space then put in all hardie board

 

[bigfelipe]

Ideas..? Hire a pro... I do this on the regular. Just about every flip I do is old tile over lathe and has to come out. I've found it much easier to get it out in bigger sections. I use a grinder and cut a grid, then use pry bars and flat bars to pop off the sections. Sledge hammers are fun for a couple minutes the 1st time and that's about it... How big is it? I've never needed a dumpster for a bathroom...

 

[fieldgrade]

Ideas..? Hire a pro... I do this on the regular. Just about every flip I do is old tile over lathe and has to come out. I've found it much easier to get it out in bigger sections. I use a grinder and cut a grid, then use pry bars and flat bars to pop off the sections. Sledge hammers are fun for a couple minutes the 1st time and that's about it... How big is it? I've never needed a dumpster for a bathroom...

bathroom (not including shower) is 5' x 4.5'.
tile walls 4' high,
tile floor.

shower stall is 5.5' x 3' all tile floor, shower walls, and shower ceiling

I cut out 9" by about 9 feet of tile and mortar to make way for the new shower pan 7 years ago and that little bit of material made my green wheeled trash can so heavy i about couldn't get it up the incline to the street.

 

[bigfelipe]

bathroom (not including shower) is 5' x 4.5'.
tile walls 4' high,
tile floor.

shower stall is 5.5' x 3' all tile floor, shower walls, and shower ceiling

I cut out 9" by about 9 feet of tile and mortar to make way for the new shower pan 7 years ago and that little bit of material made my green wheeled trash can so heavy i about couldn't get it up the incline to the street.

lol... yeah, you should not try not use your municipal trash can... So this is on of the dreaded '70s shower caves? Fun stuff...

What's the end plan?

 

[Beef15]

If I may.
I've got the same thing going on.
Guess poppig the tile off (how I started months ago before I lost interest) is a waste of time, just cut the tile, crete, and lathe up?
My end plan is unformed. Not pink, and more open.

 

[fieldgrade]

lol... yeah, you should not try not use your municipal trash can... So this is on of the dreaded '70s shower caves? Fun stuff...

What's the end plan?

Short story long. I was going to just sell this house in spring "as is" since the land is worth more than the house, but we can't figure out where to go next, so we are thinking about staying 2-5 more years.

That said, I'm not interested in a $10K bath remodel, because where I am, and the lot sizes of .6 -.8 acres in town, a buyer will either gut this place, or knock it down and put up a McMansion, so "Bathroom end game" was going to be my next post. This one is so small, that I just need to keep it working for me and the missus while we are here. A buyer here won't be interested in this teeny bathroom so spending a ton on it just doesn't make since.

I have a damn phobia about having strangers wandering in and out of my house, especially back into the living areas, so I plan out big projects like eating an elephant. One bite at a time..

 

[bigfelipe]

If I may.
I've got the same thing going on.
Guess poppig the tile off (how I started months ago before I lost interest) is a waste of time, just cut the tile, crete, and lathe up?
My end plan is unformed. Not pink, and more open.

Yes, popping the tile just creates a bigger mess to deal with

 

[bigfelipe]

Short story long. I was going to just sell this house in spring "as is" since the land is worth more than the house, but we can't figure out where to go next, so we are thinking about staying 2-5 more years. That said, I'm not interested in a $10K bath remodel, because where I am a buyer will either gut this place or knock it down and put up a McMansion, so "Bathroom end game" was going to be my next post.

I have a damn phobia about having strangers wandering in and out of my house, especially back into the living areas, so I plan out big projects like eating an elephant. One bite at a time..

Lol... Fair enough. Don't forget you have friends too... Bathroom shouldn't cost you 10k unless you have money to burn and expensive tastes in tile...

 

[fieldgrade]

Lol... Fair enough. Don't forget you have friends too... Bathroom shouldn't cost you 10k unless you have money to burn and expensive tastes in tile...

Maybe I need to buy lunch one day, or beers one evening and we'll have a se'ance about this.

 

[bigfelipe]

Lol... Fair enough. Don't forget you have friends too... Bathroom shouldn't cost you 10k unless you have money to burn and expensive tastes in tile...

Maybe I need to buy lunch one day, or beers one evening and we'll have a se'ance about this.

You have my number...

 

[fieldgrade]

Lol... Fair enough. Don't forget you have friends too... Bathroom shouldn't cost you 10k unless you have money to burn and expensive tastes in tile...

Maybe I need to buy lunch one day, or beers one evening and we'll have a se'ance about this.

And I don't mind hiring help. I just don't like hiring strangers.

 

[Windini]

As has been said, it'll be a pain in the A. If you don't have access (loaner) to a demo hammer, rent one. Smaller for close quarters work, lighter than a jackhammer, beats the snot outta swinging a sledge.

I've used a AEG and a Hilti, set on hammer only most of the time, with a 1" chisel bit. Wear a mask, and use ear and eye pro! Might as well take 800mg ibuprofen before you start...

I'll make short work of the tile, does fairly good on the mortar bed, won't do a thing against wire reinforcement, but uncut grid or expanded metal can help you rip out bigger chunks.

There's no easy way to do it, just gotta be a bull about it, as an old boss once said.

The shovel, Shop Vac, and Shut Eye!

 

[skiles]

Just a heads up. https://www.wm.com/residential/bagster-bag.jsp

My bathroom is VERY similar to yours. I've looked into this myself. It's going to be a lot of "sweat equity and she'll be happy"...is what I keep telling myself.

 

[fieldgrade]

1971? It is lead tile with asbestos glue for sure. Sell the house now.

I'm 61 years old. Something else will hopefully kill me before it does.

 

[NCMedic]

Just a heads up. https://www.wm.com/residential/bagster-bag.jsp

My bathroom is VERY similar to yours. I've looked into this myself. It's going to be a lot of "sweat equity and she'll be happy"...is what I keep telling myself.

Just make sure that they will come pick the bastard up after you have filled it up... Despite what their website says about serving your area..... Ask me how I know.

 

[bigfelipe]

Just a heads up. https://www.wm.com/residential/bagster-bag.jsp

My bathroom is VERY similar to yours. I've looked into this myself. It's going to be a lot of "sweat equity and she'll be happy"...is what I keep telling myself.

Good luck with that. Not what it's made out to be. They area pain and they don't pick up, they also stack charges when they do finally get around to it.

 

[bigfelipe]

Just a heads up. https://www.wm.com/residential/bagster-bag.jsp

My bathroom is VERY similar to yours. I've looked into this myself. It's going to be a lot of "sweat equity and she'll be happy"...is what I keep telling myself.

Just make sure that they will come pick the bastard up after you have filled it up... Despite what their website says about serving your area..... Ask me how I know.

Beat me to it. Bagster sucks...

 

[hp468]

1971? It is lead tile with asbestos glue for sure. Buy black trash bags for the demo now.

FIFY


Ash there's always the old homeplace you might be able to talk your way back into and you'd have an awesome neighbor down the rd lol..

 

[fieldgrade]

FIFY


Ash there's always the old homeplace you might be able to talk your way back into and you'd have an awesome neighbor down the rd lol..

Indeed I would. I hear he's a got a cool Jeep project in the works.

 

[Catfish]

I had a guy demo mine a few years back. It was same as yours - 1971 construction, tile over a mud bed. We busted it up with a mini jackhammer and hauled it out in buckets. Also had to use tin snips to cut up the lathe once it was exposed.

It was a really messy job but the only way to do it right. If you can't do it right just live with it until you can. Bonus: There's about 50 lbs of pure lead in the shower pan for you.

 

[fieldgrade]

Here's where the plot thickens. This is what it looked like 7 years ago the day we finished replacing the failed shower pan, and retiled it. It doesn't look like this anymore, sadly. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i856.photobucket.com\/albums\/ab130\/cubldr\/new%20shower_zpsyylqbhsk.jpg"}[/IMG2]



It original shower pan was some kind of tarpaper looking crap, and utterly failed, leaking into the downstairs bedroom. I cut out the bottom of the shower wall, about 9" up, and my plumber cut out and installed a new drain, so a new pan could be installed on top of the old shower floor, and a new base/bed could be installed on top of it with tile laid, and hardiboard and tile around the bottom of the shower walls. The grout looks like crap now, and tiles are hairline cracked across the whole back wall of the shower..

I don't know whether to bust the whole bottom out now, or what, because it must be 4-5 inches thick.

 

[Lawless]

Here's where the plot thickens. This is what it looked like 7 years ago the day we finished replacing the failed shower pan, and retiled it. It doesn't look like this anymore, sadly. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i856.photobucket.com\/albums\/ab130\/cubldr\/new%20shower_zpsyylqbhsk.jpg"}[/IMG2]



It original shower pan was some kind of tarpaper looking crap, and utterly failed, leaking into the downstairs bedroom. I cut out the bottom of the shower wall, about 9" up, and my plumber cut out and installed a new drain, so a new pan could be installed on top of the old shower floor, and a new base/bed could be installed on top of it with tile laid, and hardiboard and tile around the bottom of the shower walls. The grout looks like crap now, and tiles are hairline cracked across the whole back wall of the shower..

I don't know whether to bust the whole bottom out now, or what, because it must be 4-5 inches thick.

Wow. That is gonna be a mess Ash. Could just the tiles be replaced? If I knew I was not staying, and the floor was not moving under my feet, I would leave it. Like you said, the buyer will gut it anyway and you will not get the money back for a remodel. Remodeling kitchens and baths when you are selling is for homes with bad structural issues or cosmetics that are literally falling apart. If my floor had not been visually sagging, I would not have touched my bathroom because we are selling in the next 2 years.

 

[Lawless]

Here's where the plot thickens. This is what it looked like 7 years ago the day we finished replacing the failed shower pan, and retiled it. It doesn't look like this anymore, sadly. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i856.photobucket.com\/albums\/ab130\/cubldr\/new%20shower_zpsyylqbhsk.jpg"}[/IMG2]



It original shower pan was some kind of tarpaper looking crap, and utterly failed, leaking into the downstairs bedroom. I cut out the bottom of the shower wall, about 9" up, and my plumber cut out and installed a new drain, so a new pan could be installed on top of the old shower floor, and a new base/bed could be installed on top of it with tile laid, and hardiboard and tile around the bottom of the shower walls. The grout looks like crap now, and tiles are hairline cracked across the whole back wall of the shower..

I don't know whether to bust the whole bottom out now, or what, because it must be 4-5 inches thick.

Yours, while dated, looks solid. ROI will be negative on gutting this.

 

[skiles]

FYI- Disregard Bagster. Fortunately I have a trailer.

 

[fieldgrade]

Lawless

Floor is starting to clunk under my feet in the bathroom. I can't feel it, but I can hear it. There's a horizontal hairline crack across the entire left shower wall (in the picture) in the tiles (not the grout) about 2-3 feet up from the shower floor, and other 1-2" hairline cracks in the tile elsewhere in the shower, not in the grout.

The grout looks horrible and needs to be redone in the shower now 7 years after we rebuilt the shower floor. After the PITA it was to cut out tile, mud, and the shower drain to build a shower pan and new tile floor on top of the existing tile shower floor I am just paranoid of the whole thing failing again due to cracked tiles higher up on the walls. I assume the mortar behind it is cracked.

The joists underneath had stayed wet for a while after the last pan failure. I removed a section of drywall ceiling in the bedroom directly below to dry it all out last time, and treat the mold.

I spent $1800 just for that plumbing and tile work, even doing all the demo myself, and using my next door neighbor builder who hooked me up with his subs directly.

Ugh

I hate to sell a house over a crappy bathroom, and I have two other bathrooms I can use, which may be the answer. I agree that there won't be any ROI on this project. It would just be to keep it all dry above and in the bedroom below, and functional till we decide where we are going next.

Kids are out of the house (for now, anyway) and I just don't need this much crotchety house. Roof looks great, but is 23 years old. HVAC is 30 years old, but runs great. House could stand to be painted. So you get the picture. I hate to spend $25-35K getting the place up to snuff for a buyer who may just gut it, or knock it down.

 

[Lawless]

Lawless

Floor is starting to clunk under my feet in the bathroom. I can't feel it, but I can hear it. There's a horizontal hairline crack across the entire left shower wall (in the picture) in the tiles (not the grout) about 2-3 feet up from the shower floor, and other 1-2" hairline cracks in the tile elsewhere in the shower, not in the grout.

The grout looks horrible and needs to be redone in the shower now 7 years after we rebuilt the shower floor. After the PITA it was to cut out tile, mud, and the shower drain to build a shower pan and new tile floor on top of the existing tile shower floor I am just paranoid of the whole thing failing again due to cracked tiles higher up on the walls. I assume the mortar behind it is cracked.

The joists underneath had stayed wet for a while after the last pan failure. I removed a section of drywall ceiling in the bedroom directly below to dry it all out last time, and treat the mold.

I spent $1800 just for that plumbing and tile work, even doing all the demo myself, and using my next door neighbor builder who hooked me up with his subs directly.

Ugh

I hate to sell a house over a crappy bathroom, and I have two other bathrooms I can use, which may be the answer. I agree that there won't be any ROI on this project. It would just be to keep it all dry above and in the bedroom below, and functional till we decide where we are going next.

Kids are out of the house (for now, anyway) and I just don't need this much crotchety house. Roof looks great, but is 23 years old. HVAC is 30 years old, but runs great. House could stand to be painted. So you get the picture. I hate to spend $25-35K getting the place up to snuff for a buyer who may just gut it, or knock it down.

Yeah, I think the answer would be to pop the tiles and see what is under the cracks in the tile. If it is just a little settling, I would retile with matching (or retile the whole shower in something acceptable) and not sweat it. Since there is other bathrooms, you could even freeze time a little by not showering in there.

 

[Lawless]

Lawless

Floor is starting to clunk under my feet in the bathroom. I can't feel it, but I can hear it. There's a horizontal hairline crack across the entire left shower wall (in the picture) in the tiles (not the grout) about 2-3 feet up from the shower floor, and other 1-2" hairline cracks in the tile elsewhere in the shower, not in the grout.

The grout looks horrible and needs to be redone in the shower now 7 years after we rebuilt the shower floor. After the PITA it was to cut out tile, mud, and the shower drain to build a shower pan and new tile floor on top of the existing tile shower floor I am just paranoid of the whole thing failing again due to cracked tiles higher up on the walls. I assume the mortar behind it is cracked.

The joists underneath had stayed wet for a while after the last pan failure. I removed a section of drywall ceiling in the bedroom directly below to dry it all out last time, and treat the mold.

I spent $1800 just for that plumbing and tile work, even doing all the demo myself, and using my next door neighbor builder who hooked me up with his subs directly.

Ugh

I hate to sell a house over a crappy bathroom, and I have two other bathrooms I can use, which may be the answer. I agree that there won't be any ROI on this project. It would just be to keep it all dry above and in the bedroom below, and functional till we decide where we are going next.

Kids are out of the house (for now, anyway) and I just don't need this much crotchety house. Roof looks great, but is 23 years old. HVAC is 30 years old, but runs great. House could stand to be painted. So you get the picture. I hate to spend $25-35K getting the place up to snuff for a buyer who may just gut it, or knock it down.

When people buy older homes like yours and mine, they expect some things to be dated and need repairs. That bathroom won't "hurt" the sale and spending 5-10K won't help it. You could get the shower tile redone for very little, even just do it yourself.

 

[fieldgrade]

As you said, stopping using that shower would prevent any further deterioration, and I had contemplated this before as a near term solution, just not when we began thinking of staying another 2-5 years.

I think I am okay to use the rest of that bathroom, and in the meantime I can clean up that shower grout so if/when we ever decide to market this house it won't look disgusting, and I won't have an eminent bathroom remodel project facing me.

 

[Chdamn]

Ash, if the tile has lead glazing and if the mastic has asbestos in it (which is a big if. Not all tile and mastic contained this material) it is a very miniscule health risk and it won't change how you dispose of the material from demolition one bit.

First of all, unless you plan to lick the tiles or crush them an put them in your soup don't worry about it. And unless you plan to grind and snort the mastic you're good. The lead in glazing is only a health risk with consumption. And the asbestos is non friable. Non friable means non airborne and the ability to turn non friable into friable, while it exists, is virtually impossible with a glue based product like a mastic.

Secondly, non friable asbestos, under NC state guidelines, is listed as construction debris. That means it can be transported and disposed of as construction debris. If, and only if you are a licensed abatement professional, do you have a duty to manifest and treat this material in a way that would guarantee that it can't become friable.

The amount of lead in glazing is so small, that it is considered by NC guidelines to be what is called incidental to the load. That means it to can be disposed of as normal construction debris. Same as wood with lead paint on it. Now, if you scrape lead paint off of wood in a restoration project, those paint scrapings are no longer incidental and become hazardous waste.

And Bagster sucks.

 

[Errant_Venture]

Lol... Fair enough. Don't forget you have friends too... Bathroom shouldn't cost you 10k unless you have money to burn and expensive tastes in tile...

Maybe I need to buy lunch one day, or beers one evening and we'll have a se'ance about this.

Considering the amount I've seen/had/heard about stolen from contractors... that's probably not a bad stance to have on it.

 

[fieldgrade]

Ash, if the tile has lead glazing and if the mastic has asbestos in it (which is a big if. Not all tile and mastic contained this material) it is a very miniscule health risk and it won't change how you dispose of the material from demolition one bit.

First of all, unless you plan to lick the tiles or crush them an put them in your soup don't worry about it. And unless you plan to grind and snort the mastic you're good. The lead in glazing is only a health risk with consumption. And the asbestos is non friable. Non friable means non airborne and the ability to turn non friable into friable, while it exists, is virtually impossible with a glue based product like a mastic.

Secondly, non friable asbestos, under NC state guidelines, is listed as construction debris. That means it can be transported and disposed of as construction debris. If, and only if you are a licensed abatement professional, do you have a duty to manifest and treat this material in a way that would guarantee that it can't become friable.

The amount of lead in glazing is so small, that it is considered by NC guidelines to be what is called incidental to the load. That means it to can be disposed of as normal construction debris. Same as wood with lead paint on it. Now, if you scrape lead paint off of wood in a restoration project, those paint scrapings are no longer incidental and become hazardous waste.

And Bagster sucks.

Thanks for that Chad. I think I am going to clean this shower, and "mothball" it, only because of the work required and the potential lack of ROI on this project.

 

[Dave951]

To qualify my comments, I am a contractor so..... a couple comments. You mentioned this bath is over a bedroom. You said you feel tile "cracking" or making noise when you walk on it. My question would be if the structure is still sound, then it shouldn't be making noise or cracking. Tile cracks when the substrate is compromised or moves in some way. Are you absolutely sure there isn't anything else going on? Perhaps a foundation move for some reason or, horrors, termites?

Secondly, if you're going to DIY, go to HF and buy a chinese demo hammer knock off of a Bosch. Get a tile spoon for it and you'd be amazed how quickly demo will go. For reconstruction, consider a fiberglass shower unit and a vinyl plank product for the floor. Vinyl plank installs quickly like pergo and the better grades carry a lifetime residential warranty. It comes in patterns that look like tile, stone or wood. This way you avoid the issues and expenses with tile and should be able to be finished in about half the time.

 

[fieldgrade]

To qualify my comments, I am a contractor so..... a couple comments. You mentioned this bath is over a bedroom. You said you feel tile "cracking" or making noise when you walk on it. My question would be if the structure is still sound, then it shouldn't be making noise or cracking. Tile cracks when the substrate is compromised or moves in some way. Are you absolutely sure there isn't anything else going on? Perhaps a foundation move for some reason or, horrors, termites?

Secondly, if you're going to DIY, go to HF and buy a chinese demo hammer knock off of a Bosch. Get a tile spoon for it and you'd be amazed how quickly demo will go. For reconstruction, consider a fiberglass shower unit and a vinyl plank product for the floor. Vinyl plank installs quickly like pergo and the better grades carry a lifetime residential warranty. It comes in patterns that look like tile, stone or wood. This way you avoid the issues and expenses with tile and should be able to be finished in about half the time.

One of my friends in construction from here came and inspected the bathroom and is going to do the bathroom demo/rebuild from cradle to grave for me if we decide to stay in the house. The one day that I could hear anything was the day it was 2 degrees so everything seems to be okay underneath as best we can tell.

 

[Lawless]

Ash I have a 110v demo hammer IF youn wanted to borrow it. But I like the plan you have now LOL

 

[fieldgrade]

Ash I have a 110v demo hammer IF youn wanted to borrow it. But I like the plan you have now LOL

One of the reasons that I do as much myself as I do in the house is because I am like a lot of people here in that I don't like strangers in my house. In this case it would be a shooting buddy doing the work, so I am now gtg if I pursue this. But thanks!

 

[Dave951]

PM me when you get a Roundtuit. Nothing removes tile like a Bosch with a spoon.