Another learning experience in the loading room today...

Harold2689

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My wife bought a S&W M&P EZ-PC .380. It's a nice gun, but I still don't understand why it needs a ported barrel--- on a .380. It's a good shooting little gun, and the slide is VERY easy to rack. It eats Winchester white-box all day, but it does NOT like my .380 reloads.

I tend to load on the light side, just enough to get the job done. I have a Springfield 9-1-1, and I can shoot my reloads all day with no problems. I'm loading PMC brass, HP-38 powder, with 100 gn FMJ-RNFP from X-treme Bullets. I started out with 2.9 grains (Hornady load book calls for max 3.3gn load for 100 gn FMJ-RN) & everything ran fine in my 9-1-1. My wife asked me to run a few rounds through her EZ. They ran perfectly, so I loaded 100 rds with 2.9 grains of HP-38.

When we went to the range, they ran perfectly in my 9-1-1, but every round SHE tried to fire in her EZ malfunctioned. Every single round fired, but the gun either failed to eject, failed to load, or stovepiped. SHE could shoot Winchester white-box with no problem. My reloads, not so much. But *I* could pick up her EZ and empty the magazine with no problem. I accused her of limp-wristing. (bad move on my part!)

Back home, I loaded about 20 rounds bumped up to 3.0 grains of HP-38. Same situation. Ran perfectly in my 9-1-1, and *I* could shoot it fine in her EZ, but she still had malfunctions. She ran 50 rounds of white-box through her EZ at the range last week without a single problem. It just doesn't like my reloads in HER hands.

Today I loaded 16 rounds bumped up to 3.1 grains of HP-38, and here's where I made my SECOND mistake (The first, accusing my wife of limp-wristing.. :( ) I counted out 16 brass shells, 16 bullets, and 16 primers, and put them ALL IN A SINGLE, LARGE PLASTIC TRAY! I'm loading on a Dillon RL550B, and I didn't want to load only 16 primers in the primer system, so I just used tweezers to put one primer at a time into the primer cup before inserting the empty shell. All my brass is always deprimed before I tumble, so for this short run, my sequence was, put a primer into the primer cup, but an empty shell in the press, and resize the brass, then prime. Advance the shell plate, put another primer into the primer cup, resize and prime. Repeat the sequence... Everything was coming out of the tray, and everything should be accounted for...

I suddenly realized that I only had 1 primer left in the tray, but still had 4 empty shells. I immediately figured out that at least one of my completed rounds must have a primer or two in and among the powder! So, I started pulling every bullet, and sure enough, I found 3 rounds that also had a primer mixed in with the powder! I failed to look inside every empty shell as I put it into the shell plate...to make sure it was empty...

I don't know how serious that could have been if I had not caught it, and I wonder if anyone else has made that same mistake. It is so important to be alert to what you are doing! Lesson learned. I'll never mix all of the components together in the same bin again...

So what do you guys think? Big mistake, small mistake, dangerous, or what? What might have happened if those rounds were fired with a primer buried in the powder charge?

Oh, BTW, these 16 rounds fired PERFECTLY in HER EZ, in HER hands! She said they "felt great!" So, I loaded another 100 rounds at 3.1 grains, and we'll see how they run at the range...

Harold...
 
I am trying to imagine what problem, if any, having a live primer inside the case would cause. I imagine the velocity would increase slightly, and the primer most likely would be expelled along with the bullet. However, it is conceivable that the primer might not make it out of the case/barrel and could get lodged in the gun's action somewhere when the case is ejected. Other than possibly jamming the gun (and I think that is a stretch) I can't see where anything dangerous could happen.
 
She's limp wristing. A ported .380? Really? That doesn't help cycling on an already low power cartridge. If she's recoil averse, get her a 22lr to practice with.
 
Probably not her fault. Think of the hand as a reaction-mass to the gun. A smaller, lighter hand will not oppose the recoil as much as a larger, heavier hand. A firm grip may help some, to get a good transfer of energy, but you can't ignore the laws of physics.
 
I’m still trying to conceptualize how primers got mixed into the powder.
I counted out 16 brass shells, 16 bullets, and 16 primers, and put them ALL IN A SINGLE, LARGE PLASTIC TRAY

A few primers rolled into a few empty cases and he loaded them without looking inside
 
Wouldn't having primers in the powder increase pressure a good bit simply due to the primer displacing volume? I'm picturing it the same as stepped 9mm cases only instead of thicker walls, it's a cylindrical primer taking up the empty space.
 
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Wouldn't having primers in the powder increase pressure a good bit simply due to the primer displacing volume? I'm picturing it the same as stepped 9mm cases only instead of thicker walls, it's a cylindrical primer takeing up the empty space.
I agree it would displace volume, but it's an odd item in that it's not a fixed amount of displacement. As the powder ignites the primer would also ignite and the initial unfired volume would change as the primer lit off and created a void where the primer compound was. So you have added pressure from less volume, then added pressure from the primer igniting, then a little bit less pressure as the volume of the case with the primer expands a little from the primer going off. Who's going to test the theory?
And if the primer becomes a projectile, for how far is it dangerous? We need a chrono, some gelatin or a pig, and a doofus who doesn't need a hand to volunteer.
 
I am trying to imagine what problem, if any, having a live primer inside the case would cause. I imagine the velocity would increase slightly, and the primer most likely would be expelled along with the bullet. However, it is conceivable that the primer might not make it out of the case/barrel and could get lodged in the gun's action somewhere when the case is ejected. Other than possibly jamming the gun (and I think that is a stretch) I can't see where anything dangerous could happen.

I tend to think the extra primer would just be expelled out the barrel with the bullet. I would also expect that the extra primer would also ignite when the powder charge was ignited. I was wondering if that might cause too much pressure...

I'm just glad I caught it. Lesson learned- Never mix components in a single bin.
 
I’m still trying to conceptualize how primers got mixed into the powder.
Since I was only going to load 16 rounds, I decided to load my primers manually. I didn't want to mess with loading only 16 primers into the feed system of the press. I used tweezers to manually load each primer into the priming cup. Since bullets, primers and brass were all in one plastic bin, a few primers rolled into a few brass casings, and when I picked a casing out of the bin, I didn't check inside of it to make sure it was EMPTY. It had a primer inside, and after I primed the case, I dumped powder on top of the primer I didn't realize was inside the case. The only reason I discovered it was because I came up short on primers for the last few rounds. I should have paid more attention to make sure there was NOTHING in the "empty" brass before I placed into the press. I won't make THAT mistake again...
 
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She's limp wristing. A ported .380? Really? That doesn't help cycling on an already low power cartridge. If she's recoil averse, get her a 22lr to practice with.

I'm still trying to understand why S&W decided to port it too. It's a .380! The first gun she ever owned is a Ruger LCR .357 mag. She shoots that fine, but it's a revolver, so there's no recycling problem. We each have Springfield Armory XDS .45's that she shoots fine. She also has a S&W M&P .40 that she has no problems with at all. She shoots her G26 and her G43 all day long with no problems. I've loaded a few thousand 9mm rounds with which she has not had a single malfunction in any of her pistols. She could shoot Winchester whitebox .380 in her S&W all day long without a single malfunction. She's definitely not recoil averse. It was only MY RELOADS that only SHE had a problem with in THAT particular gun. The new load performed flawlessly in HER gun, in HER hands. We'll see how the 100 rounds I loaded works for her next time we go to the range.

I agree. I accused her of limp wristing too, especially since I could pick up the exact same gun and empty the magazine with no problems. But she shoots much heaver stuff than this little .380 with no problems. Could the "EZ" recoil spring have something to to with it? I'd think just the opposite. I would tend to think that a HEAVIER recoil spring might cause those problems...
 
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I think the ported barrel bleeds too much pressure too soon so the action doesn't cycle when her smaller mass behind the gun gives way to recoil. I'm not saying she's limp wristing, but you are definitely more solid behind the gun than she is and that lost energy prevents cycling. If you have a Chrono it would be telling to see the difference between the factory loads and yours.
 
I think the ported barrel bleeds too much pressure too soon so the action doesn't cycle when her smaller mass behind the gun gives way to recoil. I'm not saying she's limp wristing, but you are definitely more solid behind the gun than she is and that lost energy prevents cycling. If you have a Chrono it would be telling to see the difference between the factory loads and yours.

I do have a chrono, but have not used it here. The back yard is not large enough to set it up properly. We just shoot test rounds into a small bank at fairly close range. Need a larger place to set it up properly. I think it would be very interesting to see results.

My hands are definitely larger than hers, and the difference in mass between our two hands makes a lot of sense. She knows how to shoot. She's a better shot than I am. And she's very proud of her NRA Pistol Instructor certification, and I'm proud of her too. That's why she blew a 50-amp fuse when I accused her of limp wristing.

She is able to shoot this last load that I came up with, so we'll see how the 100 rounds do at the next visit to the range.
 
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