Anybody replaced a main water line?

Unfortunately I have some experience with this. Our water line is about 1200ft long, and it is black Poly. When they installed the line, they should have dug a trench wider and deeper than they needed and packed good clean soil around the line. Instead they just ran a ditch and dropped the line in, rocks and all. All of our neighbors have had issues with leaks due to the rocky soil, and the same type of installation.

Most of the time the leak is obvious in location as there is a wet spot in the yard, usually the leak is uphill a bit from that, it will never be downhill. We had leaks every year and I have fixed probably 3 or 4 this way. It is an easy fix once you find the leak. The trouble is you can dig uphill for tens of feet sometimes before you locate it. Once it's located, you cut the water off at the meter, cut the line in half at the leak, and insert a brass barbed fitting. Put two stainless hose clamps on each side of break to hold fitting. Turn the water back on and make sure it isn't leaking, then bury it back. This is for black poly pipe. PVC will be a bit harder and longer fix I think, but I don't have any experience with it.

The last leak we had was very hard to find. It started small and after a few months my water bill was around $400! There were no wet spots to be found. I was pretty desperate and got quoted on replacing the entire line, black poly inside a 4" PVC sleeve to prevent this from happening again. The quote was WAY more than I could afford, so I hired a leak detection service to come out. They shut the meter off, and charge the line through a spigot close to the house with detectable gas (I think it was helium). They charge 300-750 dollars or so depending on how long they have to look and how much gas they use. Luckily, my leak was only about 20 ft from the front of the house. They detected the gas with this wand thing, then switched it to a probe when they got close. They put me right over the leak, and if you put your ear over the hole they probed you could hear the water hissing. Since they were only there for about 10 minutes they just charged me the $300. Well worth it, considering my next water bill would be higher than that. Upon digging the leak, it was on the bottom of the line and had blown a hole downwards so big I could put my arm in it and not feel the bottom. From there I guess the water was following roots and never really submerging anywhere, or maybe in the woods somewhere by the house.

The detection guy hooked up to the spigot and read the pressure gauge on his bottle. He said "Wow, no wonder you are having leaks out here" The pressure at the house was over 160PSI. I have a pressure reducing valve before the water heater which drops it to 40PSI (I think), but the entire line had way more pressure than it needed. I took his advice and dug up the line on my side of the meter, put in another box, and installed another pressure reducing valve in the box. I adjusted it so that the pressure is around 70PSI before it enters the house. Knock on wood we haven't had another leak in a couple years. My understanding is that the line vibrates when the water is running, so if it is touching any rocks it will eventually wear a hole in it. The high pressure just made the problem way worse.

FYI, once you fix the leak most water companies will give you a good portion of your last bill back, as long as the leak is fixed. Good luck brother, water leaks suck.
 
They will usually waive the sewer fees also which can be 50% of the total bill.... ask nicely.....

I've already asked and they will. Started digging at 8:30. Line came out of the box and just my luck, it went down and left. Have not quite tracked down the bottom of the line yet, trying to follow the line instead of guessing. It's way deeper than I expected. But before I stopped to grab breakfast I had water in the bottom of the hole. Looks like it's getting ready to get messy.
 
Hope you get it figured out soon. We had a leak last year that was hard to find. Made the yard around the well wet, and water was filling up inside the well house. Thought it was a hole in a line in the well, no luck. Started digging the line up with no luck. Finally dug the line up under the bricks of the well house and found the leak. It was a pain to repair having to work under the well.
 
Done it a couple times. Don't waste time and money trying to find exactly where the leak is underground. Unless the leak is right at the meter or very close to where it goes into the house, patching it is a waste. I just-

shut off the meter
rent a trencher
dig trench
remove old pipe in meter area and further if I find it with the trencher
lay in new pipe on sand bed after clearing any rocks
put some more sand in over pipe
bury with clean fill over pipe
add several strands of yellow caution tape in trench to give some warning for others digging there in the future
fill trench

Not really hard, just can be a bit strenuous. If using a flexible pipe, be sure to NOT stretch it between input and foundation. Leave a couple bends in the trench to allow for some soil movement. Depending on conditions and how far you have to go, it's better part of a day to get er done.
 
I just saw a PVC line installed at church camp including a drive to cross. Dave has the plan!. If you have to cross a driveway they make a neat tool that hooks up to a water source to the tool and you run it with a "Hole Hog", or any .5hp drill should do it. Use a pinch bar on the drill instead of hand pushing. Water leaks suck! Hopefully yours is a straight shot. The only thing I would add is to tamp every foot or so to keep sinkage down.

R
 
Pretty sure it’s right here. Just way deeper than I thought. Bottom of the hole is pooling water.



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This is just great. It’s over 40” deep. Not really sure yet. And he ran it either under or beside the sewer line. Smdh. Forget a ditch witch. I need a track hoe.


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Yer lucky. There was a leak in mine but thankfully it was on the city side of the meter out near the street. City came to repair it and had to dig a 6ft x 6ft x 8ft deep hole in front of the neighbors driveway to get at the leak. They decided to replace the main all the way to my meter and broke the pipe off under my concrete driveway. So they decided my meter was leaky and they were going to replace it too. Input for my meter was about 8ft down as well so they dug a 10ft x 10ft x 8ft deep hole in my front yard. With the weather and leaks and digging, my yard and the neighbors were reminiscent of Paschendale battlefield. Right in front of my house looked like a WW1 shell crater. They got it all fixed and backfilled and put my street Christmas decorations back in place. So far so good. Then they sent out probably the dumbest guy they have to pressure wash the red mud off the street. He did a great job geeting the mud off then street and all over my Christmas decorations. Snow men and Santa have an incongruous look when coated in mud like a WW1 tommy who's been at the front for a couple weeks. I called the city to complain. City gal asked what was wrong and I just asked who the idiot was they sent to wash the street. She asked why, I told her just come take a look at my house. (Small town, I can do that here) She came by that afternoon, saw my WW1 Christmas in the trenches diorama, left and bought me all new stuff and hauled the doughboy Santa and Snow Tommy off and hand made me some new very nice wreathes as well.
 
I'm tapping out. I'm not digging an unknown distance to 40+ inches deep. The way the water is running the leak us uphill a bit more. They laid the water and sewer at the same time so that to deal with too. And I can't tell if it's beside it, or more likely under it. At 18-24" I could about dig the whole thing up by hand. But this is nuts. It looks like a dug a pretty good 1 man fox hole in my front yard right now.
 
You could tell the neighbors it's your version of the Somme.:D
 
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A few bucks worth of PVC and fittings and you won't have to worry about it ever again. :)
 
A few bucks worth of PVC and fittings and you won't have to worry about it ever again. :)

I was thinking the very same thing @Jeppo . Taking a few extra moments to properly clean, prime, and glue pvc fittings will pay off for many years. I'm sure that you'll be thankful to get this behind you @chiefjason !
 
A few bucks worth of PVC and fittings and you won't have to worry about it ever again. :)

And I get to take out the maze of extra fittings to get that line down to the same level as the sewer line. Just run it out of one box and into the other. Might need a couple elbows but not a dozen of them. Depending the price of the PVC I may sleeve it while I'm in there. Have not decided but my local hardware store gives me a good price when I'm paying cash. Might be worth the extra.


I was thinking the very same thing @Jeppo . Taking a few extra moments to properly clean, prime, and glue pvc fittings will pay off for many years. I'm sure that you'll be thankful to get this behind you @chiefjason !

Yeah, I can't wait. I had 2 plumbers not call me back, Rotorooters prices were through the roof, and the ones I did talk to were booked into next week. I got so pissed I called Sunbelt instead of another plumber. Not sure why I didn't decide to just re lay the line shallower to begin with. Part of it was because 811 was kind of running me around too until I got them to do an emergency ticket. Apparently you have to specifically use the word "emergency" to get one, I don't have water is not quite enough for some of them. It was early afternoon before the power line was marked.
 
Just be glad you don't live in the mountains. There are places around here with water pressure at the meter of 400 PSI and up. I have a pair of PRV's in a box next to the water meter, plus 2 in series inside just to rein in the pressure. Pressure is so high due to elevation, or the fact they are pumping enough pressure to push the water uphill.
 
Not sure how you feel about this advice...but...I wish I'd specified that wire run along all my buried pipes. I know wire is expensive but so is digging around and hunting for plastic pipes.
 
A few bucks worth of PVC and fittings and you won't have to worry about it ever again. :)

Please Please Please DO NOT use PVC unless you want to do this again. PVC isn't a good idea for main line supply direct burial. There are other options.
 
And I get to take out the maze of extra fittings to get that line down to the same level as the sewer line. Just run it out of one box and into the other. Might need a couple elbows but not a dozen of them. Depending the price of the PVC I may sleeve it while I'm in there. Have not decided but my local hardware store gives me a good price when I'm paying cash. Might be worth the extra.

I would consider running 4" PVC as a sleeve and putting flexible black poly line in as the water line. The connections with black poly are way easier to deal with. With that short of a distance it would be easy to dig up the end and pull a new line through the pvc if the black poly ever developed a leak.
 
Please Please Please DO NOT use PVC unless you want to do this again. PVC isn't a good idea for main line supply direct burial. There are other options.
I agree and suggests above that if he's going to redo the entire line use something other then PVC. I work in an underground water utility and a lot of places are going to HDPE (as an alternative to ductile iron which is a non starter here). In summary:
High density polyethylene (HDPE), on the other hand, is a polyethylene thermoplastic that is made from petroleum. It has higher strength, is harder, and can withstand high temperatures.
HDPE pipes are convenient to use in underground piping because they are found to dampen and absorb shock waves minimizing surges that can affect the system. They also have the best joint pressure resistance and are also more abrasion and heat resistant.

Read more: Difference Between HDPE and PVC | Difference Between http://www.differencebetween.net/object/difference-between-hdpe-and-pvc/#ixzz556nx9NbX
I also agree with running a tracer wire.
 
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Went to my hardware store to pick up parts this morning. Talking to him about options between laying one line and sleeving it. Went over prices. Then he looks at me and says, just lay 2 lines side by side, cap one off on both ends, if you get a leak just swap out the ends. That's why I like these guys! Plus he just put everything on a tab, sent a bunch of extra parts, when I go back with leftovers we just settle up on what I used.

Main water line is in the ground. Giving it 2 hours before pressure testing it. Going to lay the second line while I wait. If all goes well I'll have time to cover it back up before work. I did screw up the initial connection to the meter somehow. Had to start that over. Luckily it was the where I started.
 
Redundancy is a wonderful thing....great suggestion!!

R
 
Hooked everything up and let it set 2 hours. Pressure tested 15 minutes. No visible leaks outside. Meter moved a couple times but not running. Probably ice maker or hot water heater taking in some water. Could be air getting pushed out of the lines too. With the leak it was a constant slow spin. The triangle is not moving at all now. Got it covered back up enough for the cold. Need to finish up the cut off box but I covered it with a moving pad for the night. Still want to mound up the cut out line so it can settle but that will start tomorrow.


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Same problem for me with a leak from the city of Newton meter to the front of the house. I determined it was in the front yard by doing a test and also having the city monitor usage with the inside shutoff closed during two consecutive nights. Still city showed 30 gallons an hour from 12:00 midnight to 5:00am. I dug on both side of the meter and next to the house. Went from 14” to 42” in just 40 feet.

I was too busy to tackle it after the power locators came and the guy could not find the gas line. So instead I called Minyard Plumbing in Hickory. They were backloggged for a week but I trusted them more than any other plumbers and I know a bunch. They wanted to to lay another line in at the code depth but my wife insisted we find where the leak was. Cost me more but we found a 16” inch pipe section with, get this, 13 glued and union connections before entering the basement. A union was leaking and eventually the high pressure carved out a nice channel for a big leak.

Minyard Plumbing also found another problem of no expansion tank so I had them put it in. Wife pays the combined city water, sewer, garbage, and power bill. We had used 220,000 excessive gallons of water with no change in grass color or wetness in the yard. Water bill went from 26,000 gallons to 5500 a month after the repair. She had mentioned the bill for months but I was too busy making money doing HVAC installs and repairs. Plus I also am a licensed electrician and licensed commercial refrigeration company. I fix other people’s problems which sets me back from taking care of my own stuff.

I still need to take the bill to the city and they will only give two months credit on the excessive sewer charges beyond 5500 gallons.
 
@BlackGun My wife is obsessing over wanting to know what was wrong with the old line. Trying to convince her "don't know, don't care" is the best way to deal with this. Now that we have water it's easier to get her onboard. My line had 3 90 degree connections within 3 feet of the city meter to get to depth. I figured the last 90 degree elbow may have had the leak, seemed like it. Once I realized how deep it was I knew it was a replace. When I couldn't get an appointment for a week I called Sunbelt. Finally total to replace main line and lay a back up line, $225.
 
@BlackGun My wife is obsessing over wanting to know what was wrong with the old line. Trying to convince her "don't know, don't care" is the best way to deal with this. Now that we have water it's easier to get her onboard. My line had 3 90 degree connections within 3 feet of the city meter to get to depth. I figured the last 90 degree elbow may have had the leak, seemed like it. Once I realized how deep it was I knew it was a replace. When I couldn't get an appointment for a week I called Sunbelt. Finally total to replace main line and lay a back up line, $225.
Nice savings. I paid 5 times that but I could only use a track hoe and two days would have been almost $500. Plus I would have had to take off two days. Another $1500 grand of company revenue to pay company bills. Wife happy, me happy, and Minyard removed all my landscaping out front that I was going to have to dig out by hand for new scrubs. Took 15 minutes with a back hoe for the scrub removal.
 
@BlackGun My wife is obsessing over wanting to know what was wrong with the old line. Trying to convince her "don't know, don't care" is the best way to deal with this. Now that we have water it's easier to get her onboard. My line had 3 90 degree connections within 3 feet of the city meter to get to depth. I figured the last 90 degree elbow may have had the leak, seemed like it. Once I realized how deep it was I knew it was a replace. When I couldn't get an appointment for a week I called Sunbelt. Finally total to replace main line and lay a back up line, $225.

Awesome sir. 225 dollars well spent and don't give it another thought or look back............it's done. And you'll have peace and contentment forevermore. :D
 
How much was the Sunbelt rental for ditchwitch? Rental time period? Home Depot was all I had a quote from. Sunbelt did not call back after being on hold.

I once layed a lot of pipe around the Hickory area but then I got married. It almost ceased after that if you know what I mean.
 
Chief I sure hope this works out for you but in my experience, direct burial of PVC with cemented joints has almost always developed leaks at a joint and that was the reason I got called in on one job. The owner didn't want to do it again. The forces exerted on buried pipes can cause that joint to weaken to the point of leaking. Keep an eye on your meter for future leaks.

Every time I've done this job, I went with black poly buried at least as deep as the old pipe. I rented a trenching machine from the local yard (Sunbelt in my case) for a 1/2 day. That's why I didn't worry too much about nailing the old line. In one case, the line was copper and the machine just ripped it right out.
 
How much was the Sunbelt rental for ditchwitch? Rental time period? Home Depot was all I had a quote from. Sunbelt did not call back after being on hold.

I once layed a lot of pipe around the Hickory area but then I got married. It almost ceased after that if you know what I mean.

About $152 for 24 hours, insurance and trailer included. I rented it late in the evening so half day was not an option. Only really needed it for about 45 minutes.
 
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Jeppo, I think Im the only one around here not getting the pretty orange box referencing comments before; Being ignorant and all, how did you paste like that? Apologies OP, I probably should ask this elsewhere on the forum.
And YES I did seeeee.....lol
 
Jeppo, I think Im the only one around here not getting the pretty orange box referencing comments before; Being ignorant and all, how did you paste like that? Apologies OP, I probably should ask this elsewhere on the forum.
And YES I did seeeee.....lol
@cjcullom Just scroll to the message you wish to respond to (meaning the original message that you want in the "pretty orange box" and click on "Reply" at the bottom right corner of that message. It will copy the older post and then give you space below it for your response. You can actually "Reply" to multiple messages and they will all copy in individual orange boxes (also pretty I suppose). ;)
 
Jeppo, I think Im the only one around here not getting the pretty orange box referencing comments before; Being ignorant and all, how did you paste like that? Apologies OP, I probably should ask this elsewhere on the forum.
And YES I did seeeee.....lol
@cjcullom Just scroll to the message you wish to respond to (meaning the original message that you want in the "pretty orange box" and click on "Reply" at the bottom right corner of that message. It will copy the older post and then give you space below it for your response. You can actually "Reply" to multiple messages and they will all copy in individual orange boxes (also pretty I suppose). ;)
@cjcullom Just scroll to the message you wish to respond to (meaning the original message that you want in the "pretty orange box" and click on "Reply" at the bottom right corner of that message. It will copy the older post and then give you space below it for your response. You can actually "Reply" to multiple messages and they will all copy in individual orange boxes (also pretty I suppose). ;)
@cjcullom Just scroll to the message you wish to respond to (meaning the original message that you want in the "pretty orange box" and click on "Reply" at the bottom right corner of that message. It will copy the older post and then give you space below it for your response. You can actually "Reply" to multiple messages and they will all copy in individual orange boxes (also pretty I suppose). ;)
Like this :D
 
Your the man Jeppo, thanks and Ill get some practice once Im back from TN. Im going to get fresh southern air/vittles but theres not much technology out there so I will be off grid a bit. TO the land between the lakes...........

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