Anyone else tired of No Knock Warrants?

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Wahoo95

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Yep. I’m tired of them, too. Very sad what happened to her. I also hope charges are dropped against her boyfriend.
 
Wahoo95 said:
I recognize they want to take people with little resistance but it seems like that could be accomplished in a safer fashion during the day or even night while the person is leaving the house or returning home and positive ID has been made.

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Back in the day, that is how it was done. Pick em up at the car wash, burger joint, gas station etc. But nowadays, you gotta spend it or loose it, and all the mayors and police chiefs love them some big budgets. When you collect all the cool toys and tactics. You gotta use somewhere somehow.
 
Police at the time said the officers knocked on the door several times and “announced their presence as police who were there with a search warrant.” The officers forced their way in through the door and “were immediately met by gunfire,” Lt. Ted Eidem said at a March 13 press conference.

So how do we know it's a no knock search warrant?
 
rantingredneck said:
"The officers were looking for a suspect who lived in a different part of the city and was already in police custody."

Really???
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Used to be the po-po had to deconflict an op like this, and part of that was a last-minute look-see to see if the offender was in the system

I think there is a time and place for no-knocks, but in rare circumstances. Like a lot of police tactics it becomes the rule and not the exception.
 
So what does announcing yourself as the police have to do with it? I know plenty of times thugs have knocked announced they’re the police and then robbed or killed people inside. I would’ve done the same thing if someone busted in my house no matter what they were saying. This is just plain ridiculous! There has to be accountability when this stuff happens.


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Cowboy said:
So how do we know it's a no knock search warrant?
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Well, we have conflicting stories on that, granted.....

So let's look at what we know or at least can reasonably establish as fact at this time based on the article and lawsuit.

1) A woman is dead in a home veritably riddled with bullets. Based on the information in the article it sounds like every room got a serving of lead.
2) She was an EMT and her boyfriend had a license to carry and legally owned firearms.
3) No knock raids happen and have a documented history of going wrong in just the way described in this article.

So are we to assume that the EMT and her law-abiding boyfriend, KNEW that the police were at the door and decided to open fire? That argument just doesn't hold water.
 
Perhaps if the punishment for this sort of thing were more of the an eye for an eye variety rather than paid administrative leave while we confirm they followed “policy” and a check paid by tax payers they would think twice.

And, “announcing” the word “police” doesn’t mean squat.

As I say, I don’t care if you’ve got a stupid badge, stay away from me and stay off my property in the interest of “officer safety”.
 
noway2 said:
Perhaps if the punishment for this sort of thing were more of the an eye for an eye variety rather than paid administrative leave while we confirm they followed “policy” and a check paid by tax payers they would think twice.

And, “announcing” the word “police” doesn’t mean squat.

As I say, I don’t care if you’ve got a stupid badge, stay away from me and stay off my property in the interest of “officer safety”.
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I agree, as long as theres not penalties being paid via settlements and jail time nothing will change. Add those penalties and theyll find another way to do it or make dang sure they got it right.

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Wahoo95 said:
I agree, as long as theres not penalties being paid via settlements and jail time nothing will change. Add those penalties and theyll find another way to do it or make dang sure they got it right.

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Overturning the standards of sovereign and qualified immunity would go a long way toward ending these sorts of screw ups.
 
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rantingredneck said:
Well, we have conflicting stories on that, granted.....

So let's look at what we know or at least can reasonably establish as fact at this time based on the article and lawsuit.

1) A woman is dead in a home veritably riddled with bullets. Based on the information in the article it sounds like every room got a serving of lead.
2) She was an EMT and her boyfriend had a license to carry and legally owned firearms.
3) No knock raids happen and have a documented history of going wrong in just the way described in this article.

So are we to assume that the EMT and her law-abiding boyfriend, KNEW that the police were at the door and decided to open fire? That argument just doesn't hold water.
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I understand what your saying and don't disagree that there is some questions. But I don't believe either side until facts come out. I wonder if there were body cams and what the actual warrant said. To be a real no knock warrant it would be in the warrant. Other wise it was a decision of the officers to enter unannounced. I know that sounds nit picky but with a little research in NC I found out that Pre authorized entry warrants are not legally able to be granted in NC by any judge. In stead that is left up to the officers on scene to make a judgement call to officer safety.
 
Cowboy said:
I understand what your saying and don't disagree that there is some questions. But I don't believe either side until facts come out. I wonder if there were body cams and what the actual warrant said. To be a real no knock warrant it would be in the warrant. Other wise it was a decision of the officers to enter unannounced. I know that sounds nit picky but with a little research in NC I found out that Pre authorized entry warrants are not legally able to be granted in NC by any judge. In stead that is left up to the officers on scene to make a judgement call to officer safety.
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So are you saying they had a no knock Warrants but they chose to knock first? Or are you saying they had a standard warrant which gave them the ability to enter without permission?

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Wahoo95 said:
So are you saying they had a no knock Warrants but they chose to knock first? Or are you saying they had a standard warrant which gave them the ability to enter without permission?

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I'm saying it's a good question to ask if they had an actual no knock warrant. Also there is very little difference between the time the two take to serve. You can announce and pop the door completely legally while going in and that is not a no knock warrant.
 
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fsj80 said:
According to another article, the officers did have a no knock warrant, did not wear body cams (normal SOP for them) and did not knock before entering. At the moment, we have the usual rush to report without knowing all the facts.
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That's another issue....rarely do these teams wear body cams.

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Goofyfoot2001 said:
I should not be losing respect for the police. Why am I losing respect!
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In my view, high or low respect shouldn't be given as a blanket offering to anyone. Every individual receives a baseline, and from there they either earn respect, or lose it. Respect people who have earned it. Respect cops that show they do their job with integrity, and shun those who dont. Saves a lot of grief.
 
B00ger said:
In my view, high or low respect shouldn't be given as a blanket offering to anyone. Every individual receives a baseline, and from there they either earn respect, or lose it. Respect people who have earned it. Respect cops that show they do their job with integrity, and shun those who dont. Saves a lot of grief.
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You can't pick and choose cops. You kinda have to judge their performance as a whole.
 
Goofyfoot2001 said:
You can't pick and choose cops. You kinda have to judge their performance as a whole.
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Well, theres your problem then. I have met a bunch of cops that are awesome dudes. Ive met a few who were south of useless. I choose not to label them all as worthless.
 
Goofyfoot2001 said:
I have cops in the family. They individually are not bad 99% of the time. In a group following orders, they cease to be individuals.
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Terrible that this is your experience with them. We are seeing above an example of that not being universal. As well as the sheriffs that stood with the demonstrators in Virginia, as well as those around the country that have made overt statements against what they feel are unconstitutional laws and regulations.
 
I try to apply the same argument to any profession: if a doctor fouls up and kills his patient, is that reflective of the doctor, or the profession? Or does the institution bear some culpability because of a bad policy? It could be a number of things, but rarely do I think "well, I am not ever going trust surgeons because someone got hydraulic fluid during surgery."

In a group following orders, if they screw up and followed policy, yes, it's an indictment on the cop, all his brethren, and the department. But if a cop screwed up by following an unlawful order or being outside the box, or doing something stupid, then that person needs to be hammered, not the whole department.
 
Serving a warrant in the middle of the night, trying to ambush someone asleep is poor tactics if you want to avoid a fight IMO. These tactics practically guarantee a fight back response until the person is overwhelmed which could leave either side dead.

Scenario:
You are asleep, you hear banging on the house followed by in blowing open and people yelling. Even if they are yelling police, can you trust it? What if it is criminals yelling police? Very easy tactics to copy to gain an advantage. Any reasonable person would respond with defensive force until they knew they weren't going to be raped/killed/robbed etc.

The police are setting themselves up for a fight.

If the goal is to apprehend someone, why not surround the house. Wake them up, from outside with a megaphone or something and wait for them to surrender? It sounds safer for all involved rather than a forced ambush fight. Or add surveillance and pick up the suspect once they leave the house?
 
Climberman said:
Serving a warrant in the middle of the night, trying to ambush someone asleep is poor tactics if you want to avoid a fight IMO. These tactics practically guarantee a fight back response until the person is overwhelmed which could leave either side dead.

Scenario:
You are asleep, you hear banging on the house followed by in blowing open and people yelling. Even if they are yelling police, can you trust it? What if it is criminals yelling police? Very easy tactics to copy to gain an advantage. Any reasonable person would respond with defensive force until they knew they weren't going to be raped/killed/robbed etc.

The police are setting themselves up for a fight.

If the goal is to apprehend someone, why not surround the house. Wake them up, from outside with a megaphone or something and wait for them to surrender? It sounds safer for all involved rather than a forced ambush fight. Or add surveillance and pick up the suspect once they leave the house?
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Or just take them down when they exit the house in the morning

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Chuckman said:
I am not ever going trust surgeons because someone got hydraulic fluid during surgery."
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You can tell you work at Duke.
Chuckman said:
The whole enchilada: those orders don't happen in a vacuum.
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It stems from the politicians.
Climberman said:
If the goal is to apprehend someone, why not surround the house. Wake them up, from outside with a megaphone or something and wait for them to surrender? It sounds safer for all involved rather than a forced ambush fight. Or add surveillance and pick up the suspect once they leave the house?
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Waco Texas and the Branch Davidians?
 
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