Are we closer than we have ever been to another war?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Reknilp, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Reknilp

    Reknilp New Member

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    So today me and my dad were talking about how the political divide has ever been in our lifetime. Him being born in 42 and myself in 77.

    He stated back in the good old days, if dems and Republicans had opposing beliefs on a subject they could and would come to a compromise on a bil . Noe the right and left are so far apart, that they only way to get a controversial bill passed is for one party to control the house and senate.

    Then when Beto came out and really said what most Democrats wanted to, he really pushed Republicans further to the right.

    Me and my dad aren't paranoid and hope this doesn't happen but do y'all feel if the political divide gets worse we could be heading towards another civil war?
     
  2. fieldgrade

    fieldgrade Well seasoned member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Don’t listen to Beto. You’ll sleep better at night.
     
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  3. Reknilp

    Reknilp New Member

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    He doesn't have a snowball chance in hell of winning. I was just using him as a reference and civil wars have broke out from extreme political divide.
     
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  4. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Charter Member

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    I've been thinking along these lines since 2012-ish when I noticed the media actively pressing people's buttons for profit. They make money when we fight, AND they have the power to shape opinion, so its only getting worse as long as that remains true.
     
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  5. JimB

    JimB Picking it up slowly. Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Right now there is lots of divisiveness because the stakes are small, we’re still a long way from folks being ready to kill and die for what they believe about abortion, gender equality, race discrimination, free healthcare, free education, illegal immigration, etc. IMHO, the only real risk is screwing with 2a, cause a portion of those folks know that if they give on that then the rest will go too.
     
  6. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Supporting Member

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    It will all happen very fast, one day.
     
  7. wsfiredude

    wsfiredude Can't starve us out; Can't make us run Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Truth be told, a lot of Republicans want the same thing.

    See...problem is, Beto came down with bad case of diarrhea of the mouth and spilled the beans. It ain't that most other politicians disagree with him, but they'd of preferred to accomplish the task with the usual filthy, rotten, underhanded means they are accustomed to using.

    When Francis came out and said, "Hell yeah; we're going to take them!", all that incremental, subrosa B.S. flew right out the friggon window. Now, the Dems are trying to distance themselves from Francis. Thing is, when he pulled the pin on that sh*t grenade, the rest of em were in the splatter radius.

    I wouldn't worry yourself and lose sleep over his statement because it is not going to happen. Not saying they won't ever pass legislation that states, "ARs and AKs must be turned in"; they may pass it and imo, the likelihood is high.

    But actually accomplishing the task will not occur.
     
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  8. JimP42

    JimP42 Mostly harmless Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Yep. Gradually, and then all of a sudden, all at once.
     
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  9. georgel

    georgel Behind Every Blade of Grass

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    I still think he actually works for the right. :D

    Tipping point.
     
  10. chiefjason

    chiefjason Vendor and Leather Hack Vendor

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    And in the grand scheme of things, it's usually something kind of stupid too.

    Speaking of fast, the Russian revolution went from bread riots to the end of a 300 year reign in about a week. Lots of folks wanted it, but nobody saw that coming.

    I'm not a big fan of the idea. But with morons spouting off this type of nonsense, with this type of power, they may well get their war. It's just going to be a lot closer than the one they wanted in the ME. Unfortunately the Times has a paywall, I'd love to read the actual op ed. If 50-100 special operations advisors are what Western Civilization hinges on, we are already doomed. If you think getting into a shooting war with a NATO ally is a good idea, you are a fool. And if you don't understand that we helped arm the people the Kurds are fighting against, then pitted the Kurds against them; you are blind.

    McRaven concludes, “it is time for a new person in the Oval Office—Republican, Democrat or independent—the sooner, the better.” At the very least, McRaven called for impeachment ahead of an election, or perhaps for a coup, and pretended to do so on the military’s behalf. In fact, his was just one more voice from an establishment that has squandered the public’s trust, senses that it can no longer win elections honestly, and is pulling out all the stops.



    https://www.amgreatness.com/2019/10/19/who-the-hell-do-they-think-they-are/
     
  11. YeeHaa

    YeeHaa Member Charter Life Member

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    Beto is saying what the Left has wanted for a long time and currently his wishes are not obtainable.
    Beto has also, recently, come out against religion and tax exempt status. ( attacking part of the 1st )

    I also believe when if happens , it will happen fast.

    IMHO, the greatest threat we ( Americans ) are faced with currently is what you term, political divide.

    I say current political divide is both normal and manufactured.

    The manufactured political divide comes from organizations dong G Goros Bidding and out current congress trying to Ram Impeachment through and actually remove Trump from office.

    In conjunction with Schiff & Company trying to find a narrative to stick that leads to some Half A$$ excuse to remove Trump before the next election, they , "The Dark Side", have said or heavily implied that if members of Trumps Cabinet do not comply with subpoenas they will be arrested or subject to arrest. Under the current frame work of Schiff's hearings, this would not be a good thing. I also believe Schiff & Company are probing to see how far they can go before any serious "Push Back" occurs.

    One issue both sides realize, if any serious "Civil Unrest" occurs and to what level, the financial markets will react in a Very Negative Fashion and this means even if NO Blood were spilled at all.
    An example, lets say, for what ever reason, Trump is not in the Oval Office after the next election the markets will also react in a Negative fashion for several reasons which are all hinged on a Trump Economy.

    The Left does NOT want a good economy, they want people to depend on Big Bro.


    Currently our US Congress has before it the USMCA ( Trump Signs New Trade Agreement With Mexico And Canada To Replace NAFTA) in which congress is doing nothing on it, at all.

    Remember Trump pulled the plug on TPP.
    Also remember that when TPP was being drafted No One could Read the damn thing, even members of congress. One place it could be read is at the WH in a secured area and no notes could be taken, period.


    What is the TPP?
    The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) writes the rules for global trade
    https://ustr.gov/tpp/

    If, If, the Left gets rid of Trump, I bet that the USMCA is trashed and the TPP is revisited and signed. I bet Mitt Romney would like TPP over USMCA.


    I fully believe that this push from the Left fits into a Much Larger Agenda or a New World Order and when Killary didn't make the Oval Office in '16 its put them back at least FOUR Years.

    Also, it's not just us here in America, look at England and the Brexit vote to leave the EU.

    Pay attention to their ( Lefts ) actions, not words.

    Pelosi Compares Impeaching Trump To American Revolution


    https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/92419-0

    Bottom line, their agenda comes down to obtaining Power & Money and I think the Power Brokers are going to do whatever they have to to push ~ remove Trump BEFORE the next election and if mistakes are made and Citizens start showing up on the mall with Liberty Sticks, I believe it's a calculated Risk the Left is willing to accept ~ take.
     
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  12. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

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    Historically it has always been an event that was relatively inconsequential in and of itself, but that it happened when the mood is ripe.
     
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  13. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Supporting Member

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    There really has never been compromise between the parties. The Republicans have just continually sold out their principles and constituents for about 100 years. It’s been a one way slide to a bizarre communism, socialism, fascism mix.
     
  14. drypowder

    drypowder Les Deplorables

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    As Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn has pointed out, this is more accurately referred to as the Bolshevik Revolution.
     
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  15. Me.

    Me. Active Member

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    For a good old-fashioned civil war, you need

    1. Division
    2. One or both sides wanting to take something from the other
    3. Physical boundaries


    That last one is a big factor in a civil war. You don’t have enough of 1 and 2 living in areas that are physically separate (a requirement of 3).


    You can get uprisings, but you're unlikely to get a war without physical borders.



    Besides.... what are you going to get people to rally around when you can change most people's attention with a new TV show or Facebook post. These days I’ll bet I could put down an uprising by telling the participants that if they stop fighting, they can get into Walmart early on Black Friday.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  16. GreatGazoo

    GreatGazoo Li'l Green Guy Supporting Member

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    Considering how crowds behave, I don't see much of a difference here.
     
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  17. SPST

    SPST Member

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    Every breath you take is further from youth and closer to death.
     
  18. Flashpoint

    Flashpoint Member Charter Member Supporting Member

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    When you say fast are you referring to the beginning or the whole thing? Everyone prefers a quick war (provided their side prevails), but that's not the norm.
     
  19. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Supporting Member

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    What will happen fast is not the war, but the thing that catapults us from boiling frogs to a civil war.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  20. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

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    Which is probably why I keep reading that the conflict that is coming won't be a nation state versus nation state civil war but more like the Seige for Sarajevo. A cluster-fk of irregular insurgents against an illegitimate govt.
     
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  21. SilvrSRT10

    SilvrSRT10 Active Member

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    My biggest problem is not really the loons with their leftist ideas running for office but the growing support they appear to have. Too many people are running on feelings rather than logic. They just can't realize these ideas won't work. They've been tried over and over again and failed every time. They're pawns (useful idiots) and don't even know it. What's it going to take to get them to wake up before it's too late?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  22. concepthomes1

    concepthomes1 When do we start? Staff Member Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    Geez....you're worse than WebMD.
     
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  23. 9outof10mms

    9outof10mms Purveyor of Professional Enginerding Supporting Member

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    They've been doing it since 2000 in the Bush election. I distinctly remember all the major news networks showing their "colored" map to show who has won where. Florida was colored "blue" well before 7pm poll closing time. How many people do you think got home from work, put on ABC/CNN/CBS/etc and saw an already decided state, and stayed home. That made the gap >that< much closer in the race. Now you'll see them all using it as a sales pitch: "we won't show any projected results until after all polls have closed." Crooks.
     
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  24. JT

    JT Well-Worn Member Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    My take: I believe this is not about US politics, or even the US itself. Look at all the trouble spots around the world erupting in civil discord. I think without exception they're all the healthier domestic economies around. I've come to believe that this unrest is promoted by the globalist power-brokers (think Soros, et. al.) seeking to bring all the world's population down to a state of "OWG" dependency.
     
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  25. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

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    That is a big problem that has been decades in the making. It doesn't have a simple beginning, nor does it have a simple end or solution. At its roots lies the concept of personal responsibility and integrity and how that relates to social responsibility. While we joke about it, the Johnny can't read but it's ok because he feels good about getting a ribbon for participating is a large part of the problem educationally speaking. However, these changes are mirrored by similar ones in the home. It has morphed into a society that believes it has the right to not be offended or to feel a certain way and it is the job of govt. to ensure it.

    Basic civics and what that translates to in terms of being a productive adult is simply lacking.
     
  26. Grim

    Grim Well-Known Member

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    EXACTLY. You all should listen to the podcast on IheartRadio called "It Could Happen Here." It covers what a civil war in the US might look like.
     
  27. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    I'll take a different take on this:

    I believe we are already in a civil war, it just isn't a "hot" civil war.

    I truly believe that the absolute vast majority of the population generally don't care what is going on in the country as long as they are fed, have a place to live, and are left to do generally what they want. If you look at most all "hot" wars of the past, they kick of hot when more than one of those three are suppressed.

    The main issue is most people who are "downtrodden" don't have a realistic view on what real poverty and lack is. For the first time in history our nations "poor" check their EBT balance on smart phones, live in section 8 housing complete with satellite and internet provided for reduced/free, and are given healthcare through the government. What was designed to be a safety net has turned into a hammock for those that have grown comfortable in their "poor" situation. Our "impoverished" are coupled with a major obesity epidemic.

    We are told how violent the world is right now. But if you really look at the data, there has never been a longer span of "peace" than in the past 40 years or so. The 1900s, so far, was the most violent century in the history of the world. But if you dig deeper, it was the first 50 years of the 20th century that lays claim to this. There are horrible wars and atrocities going on in Africa, so please don't think I am saying this is to be ignored. But we are talking 100's of thousands, not MILLIONS like we saw at the hands of Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, the Japanese, and the Chinese. Some I have talked to lament the ceaseless wars in the middle east, and while they are horrid and loss of life is terrible and the emotional scars our boys are bringing home is horrid...nearly as many people died on Iwo Jima as in the past 18 years of war in the middle East. (Again, I am not belittling the sacrifice of our men and women, just holding the total losses in comparison).

    So why are so many so "fearful"? Its because the media has run out of "blood" to sell. And without blood, there is no story, and with no story, they lose revenue. So what we (in my opinion) have seen in the past 20 years especially, is the media more and more trying to sell us the "horrors of the modern world". If they were truthful, strife would be ended within years, not decades...

    Gay rights? What rights do they honestly lack? Their biggest enemy is a chicken restaurant.
    Womens rights? What rights to they honestly lack? Men are now dominating their sports due to their push for "equality".
    Civil rights? We elected a black president, dealt with his failed policies for years. We have BLM movements, we have police retreating from black neighborhoods so as not to be too "heavy handed", we have affirmative action, we have black colleges and universities. We spend billions of dollars on immigrants, both legal and illegal. We have systems and laws in place to punish, often punitively, for anyone or any company found to have used race as an issue. For the first time saying "I am proud to be white" is considered hate speech.
    Abortion rights? Despite my personal revulsion towards the practice, it is still going on, and will continue going on.
    Poverty? See above...the poverty line in the US would make one massively wealthy in 90% of the world.
    Medical care? Whether our system needs work or not, we have the best doctors, the most revolutionary treatments, the best researchers, and the best medical schools in the world.
    Crime? Violent crime is on a downward spiral. Where violent crime is rampant, there is another underlying social ailment such as gang warfare or drug violence.
    Drugs? The Opioid epidemic may actually be something that is a problem...but since "drugs" have been on the menu for so many years as a problem, people don't care, so it doesn't sell
    War? As above...for the first time in decades the world is at relative peace as there are no nations able/willing to commit to full battlefield conflict with one another. And those smaller nations that attempt it are generally kept in check by their "keeper nations".
    Democracy under attack? We have never been a democracy. Mob rule was never implied or desired by our founding fathers. It would be too honest to take up the narrative that our current system of checks and balances is specifically designed to be slow and tedious.
    Impeachment? The word "impeachment" has been so brutalized that people now think it is some magical word that immediately means someone is guilty of something. Not a day goes by that I don't see some moron on facebook reply to ANY elected official doing ANYTHING and someone says "IMPEACH THEM!" like boom...the problem will be solved.
    Innovation? No nation in history has enjoyed the constant march of innovation and development that comes out of the United States. Medical, exploration, social, technological, you name it...we have enjoyed a relative monopoly on major world changing innovations.

    Fact is folks, we have never had it better in our lives. No human born prior to now has ever had a better chance at growing up in a peaceful and prosperous word than right at this moment. So what this means is that in order to sell their product, the media is required to cause strife when and where it can. Recently, so hungry for a story, CNN ran a video of the Knob Creek machine gun shoot as violence in Turkey. Folks, this isn't even Journalism 101 kinda stuff to check ones sources. It is common sense.

    So, I didn't mean to go off on a rant...but here we are. The greatest opponent we, as a nation, face...is stupidity. A population so lazy, stupid, and willing to accept whatever narrative is fed to them to actually believe that somehow they are downtrodden or the nation is in crisis.
     
  28. chiefjason

    chiefjason Vendor and Leather Hack Vendor

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    They were just the recipients and the ones smart enough to demand control of the military. They didn't start it, or make it successful. They were still trying to figure out how to start it when they realized it was already happening. They outmaneuvered a weak legislature that was actually headed towards a western democracy. Not claiming expertise here BTW, just a fast and dirty lesson learned this week. That name is an example of the victors writing the history. If the actually revolutionaries wrote it, it would be the Women's Revolution. Since that mostly what was left in Petrograd at that part of WWI.
     
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  29. SnowRooster

    SnowRooster Cosmic Castaway Supporting Member

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    ^^this^^

    very well said!
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  30. concepthomes1

    concepthomes1 When do we start? Staff Member Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    Can we get some cliff notes?
     
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  31. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Ahh...the irony...
     
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  32. fieldgrade

    fieldgrade Well seasoned member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Great post.
    Indeed.;)
     
  33. Me.

    Me. Active Member

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    :p:D
     
  34. dkmatthews

    dkmatthews Active Member Life Member

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    I figure I'm too old and slow to go starting something. I hope it doesn't come to a full-fledged hot engagement because I've got family and friends scattered throughout the political spectrum.

    (I refuse to say "two sides" since I'm a registered libertarian...)
     
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  35. random

    random Active Member

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    I disagree. I think Beto is pushing the Overton window. The more outrageous proposals he throws out, the more palatable the "less extreme" proposals become.
     
  36. random

    random Active Member

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    No perspective. We are so prosperous in this country at this time, nobody really has any idea what real hardship is.

    Food and entertainment. In Rome they called it "Bread and Circuses"
     
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