ATF classifies Honey Badger pistol as SBR and violates NFA

Combat Diver

Combat Diver

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ATF could be making worse. One thing I dislike about Trump telling ATF to ban bump stocks. Slippery slope


CD
 
The ban is easy to change vs Congress passing a bill that is signed into law.
 
This is 100% political. The timing is so damn clear. A group of bureaucrats in the ATF did this action as a attack on Trump. For alot of the single issue voters in this country will now blame Trump for this action. Then they might sit out and not vote.

Smart move on the left, and a great way to pull out all punches.

As to the comment from @Jeppo . The decision on the bump stock was the BEST action anyone could of taken. I say this because the bumpstock "ban" is working is way through the courts. At the end, the ban will be removed and a ruling will be set in LAW to allow such items in the firearm market.
 
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So why exactly this one and not that one?
 
I repeat:

When they came for the automatics, I did nothing because it was just a bureaucratic tax issue ...
 
Bureaucratic rule making...with the force of law. All of the alphabet agencies do it, ATF, IRS, EPA, FDA, etc...

It is legal, they just have to get it published in the Federal Register...the overwhelming bulk of the federal government and the "rules" that govern our lives rests within the bureaucracy, the real swamplands along the Potomac.
 
JBoyette said:
This is 100% political. The timing is so damn clear. A group of bureaucrats in the ATF did this action as a attack on Trump. For alot of the single issue voters in this country will now blame Trump for this action. Then they might sit out and not vote.

Smart move on the left, and a great way to pull out all punches.

As to the comment from @Jeppo . The decision on the bump stock was the BEST action anyone could of taken. I say this because the bumpstock "ban" is working is way through the courts. At the end, the ban will be removed and a ruling will be set in LAW to allow such items in the firearm market.
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In addition to your post: There have been rumblings about this in the industry for the last few months. A friend who is an AR manufacturer stopped manufacturing AR pistols with braces because of these rumblings. That they picked on Q is not accidental. If they get away with it with Q, they will have a precedent to go after other braces. Whether they do or not is really up to the Executive Branch.

For that matter, Trump could make this issue go away for now with one phone call/stroke of a pen.
 
cubrock said:
In addition to your post: There have been rumblings about this in the industry for the last few months. A friend who is an AR manufacturer stopped manufacturing AR pistols with braces because of these rumblings. That they picked on Q is not accidental. If they get away with it with Q, they will have a precedent to go after other braces. Whether they do or not is really up to the Executive Branch.

For that matter, Trump could make this issue go away for now with one phone call/stroke of a pen.
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There were rumblings, yes, but they had stopped and I was hoping it was over.
nope.
 
Long_Hunter said:
Bureaucratic rule making...with the force of law. All of the alphabet agencies do it, ATF, IRS, EPA, FDA, etc...

It is legal, they just have to get it published in the Federal Register...the overwhelming bulk of the federal government and the "rules" that govern our lives rests within the bureaucracy, the real swamplands along the Potomac.
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Any administrative law can be challenged in court, but the agency gets deferential treatment because they are the “experts” at interpreting the law passed by congress. It’s hard to stop this stuff.
 
JimB said:
Any administrative law can be challenged in court, but the agency gets deferential treatment because they are the “experts” at interpreting the law passed by congress. It’s hard to stop this stuff.
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Yes sir, just like the bumpstock ban has been challenged...
 
JimB said:
Agreed, but Q could tell them to pound sand and force the issue into court. Instead they are giving power to ATF.
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I agree, but it isn’t a cheap fight and without funding from outside organizations, I doubt they have the funding to fight it.
 
Although I have never agreed with the rules on short barreled rifles I have also wondered how adjustable stocks ever met the rules with any stock. The amount of money to fight these rulings thru the courts is taking its toll.
 
cubrock said:
In addition to your post: There have been rumblings about this in the industry for the last few months. A friend who is an AR manufacturer stopped manufacturing AR pistols with braces because of these rumblings. That they picked on Q is not accidental. If they get away with it with Q, they will have a precedent to go after other braces. Whether they do or not is really up to the Executive Branch.

For that matter, Trump could make this issue go away for now with one phone call/stroke of a pen.
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I think that the quagmire that the ATF created is going to remove the NFA from SBR's and suppressors once we have the newest judge in the Supreme court. Think about it, at this time you have well over 2 million Americans who could be felons based on the SBR law if braces are "banded". That too much of a mistake for the ATF to just rule on. I think the long game is going to work out for us.
 
BlackGun said:
Although I have never agreed with the rules on short barreled rifles I have also wondered how adjustable stocks ever met the rules with any stock. The amount of money to fight these rulings thru the courts is taking its toll.
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26" minimum over all length is a rifle or shotgun. this includes the stock and barrel ratio. BUT a shotgun MUST have a barrel of 18" too.

Now, different states add to the GCA and NFA definition of the types of firearms. An example, Minnesota limits the barrel of pistol to shorter then 10.5"
 
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NFA with its Full Auto, Suppressors, SBRs and SBSs need to be challenged again under the US 10 Code 246 Militia and US vs Miller 1939. It was ruled that the sawed off shotgun the tax was not paid and because the fact it was not part of a milita weapons. Standard US issued small arm is a select fire 14.5" M4 carbine and breeching shotguns are standard issue throughout combat arms. Marine Corps is making the NT4 suppressor standard issue to all infantry units. That suppressor was first issued by SOCOM in the mid 90s

CD
 
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Have gun-will travel said:
Does the classification on the honey badger have a result of having an adjustable brace
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Who knows, don't think ATF does either as they make stuff up. The industry been working with ATF to define what is what and they don't. Current investigation seems that this is political Obama personnel in ATF.





CD
 
Button Pusher said:
GOA article here along with contact form to Pres. Trump

https://gunowners.org/na10072020/
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I just signed it, and sent GOA another $25. I implore the the rest of yall to join & support GOA as well.
Thanks for the link!

cubrock said:
For that matter, Trump could make this issue go away for now with one phone call/stroke of a pen.
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Trump's against firearm owners. He illegally outlawed a piece of plastic, making citizens who owned one felons if they didnt destroy their legally obtained personal property without compensation. He also doesn't believe you should own a muffler.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
I just signed it, and sent GOA another $25. I implore the the rest of yall to join & support GOA as well.
Thanks for the link!


Trump's against firearm owners. He illegally outlawed a piece of plastic, making citizens who owned one felons if they didnt destroy their legally obtained personal property without compensation. He also doesn't believe you should own a muffler.
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I disagree, if he did not have DOJ 'do something', Congress would have rammed another gun bill and he would be forced to sign it, instead it is a DOJ directive and that is a lot easier to make it go away. Don Jr. likes suppressors.
 
Button Pusher said:
I disagree, if he did not have DOJ 'do something', Congress would have rammed another gun bill and he would be forced to sign it, instead it is a DOJ directive and that is a lot easier to make it go away.
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The same way Bush signed onto the law limiting free speech cowritten by the traitors McCain & Feingold? Then expected the Supremes to overturn an unConstitutional law.
Button Pusher said:
Don Jr. likes suppressors.
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He can't make pseudo law via executive order.
 
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JBoyette said:
This is 100% political. The timing is so damn clear. A group of bureaucrats in the ATF did this action as a attack on Trump. For alot of the single issue voters in this country will now blame Trump for this action. Then they might sit out and not vote.

Smart move on the left, and a great way to pull out all punches.

As to the comment from @Jeppo . The decision on the bump stock was the BEST action anyone could of taken. I say this because the bumpstock "ban" is working is way through the courts. At the end, the ban will be removed and a ruling will be set in LAW to allow such items in the firearm market.
Click to expand...
Working it’s way through the courts where it will never be taken up by the Supreme Court and will be decided by some lower courts left wing judge/judges.
 
Amps 13 said:
Working it’s way through the courts where it will never be taken up by the Supreme Court and will be decided by some lower courts left wing judge/judges.
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That's certainly a good scenario. Personally, I like the one where Trump Rochambeau's them for it to get the Pew base actively back on board for the election.
 
It's a good thing that all gun owners check the back pages of the ATF News daily, to keep up with the ever changing, daily re-and mis-interpretation of the previous daily re- and mis-interpretations of firearms laws.

Otherwise they'd all be blissfully unaware of the latest nonsense and might actually not need to worry about possession of something that was clearly legal when purchased.
 
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And from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Incompetence :

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2020/10/at...nsion-of-honey-badger-decision/#ixzz6bF0truFS
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

Q, LLC., manufacturer of the Honey Badger Pistol, received a 60-day suspension of the cease and desist order from the ATF on October 9th. In a letter sent to lawyers representing Q, LLC it is indicated that the Department of Justice is now reviewing the “applicability of the National Firearms Act to the manufacture and transfer of the model ‘Honey Badger Pistol' firearm.”
 
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