.

JB, what are the current courses of fire for Law Enforcement? Are Day and Night still required?
 
Its static, all quals are based on a group on line at x distance. Volume of people need to get done!

Thx for the info JB!

I have seen numerous officers at different departments across the USA shoot static and do well. When they have to draw and engage multiple targets at multiple distances/angles, they fall apart.
 
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I wasn't offended and I doubt that anyone else was. We've just pointed to the danger of readily accepting"common sense" legislation and how easy it is for the sensible among us to accept yet another infringement. After all, we're all experienced gun handlers. Getting a passing grade wouldn't be all that difficult for the gunnies among us.

But, then what about the old man living alone on an isolated dirt road who just wants a revolver for his nightstand? Or the student nurse who doesn't have time or money for training and practice, but doesn't feel very safe at night after getting the attention of a neighborhood ruffian who promised to give her what she needs?

How long before 20/20 vision is a requirement? Or what if taking a fall in the last X number of months becomes a disqualifier? (You could stumble with a gun in your hand and hurt somebody.) Maybe a physical fitness requirement like covering the hundred yard dash in under 15 seconds. Once you start being "okay" with physical limitations...like firing a qualification course every year...the door to more requirements starts to open wider and wider.

Who determines a qualifying score? The state...or worse...the federal government. That's who...and before you know it, these will be requirements for merely owning a gun.

Death by a thousand tiny cuts.

I wish the Founders had simply written:

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

No room for interpretation there.
Wow, I had no idea what I'd unleash in posting this thread!

I was talking over this particular response with a friend, and agreeing with a few of the statements in it, and all of a sudden my friend and I aren't speaking any more. I have no idea what happened. I guess we differed in our opinions and now we can't be friends.

I never meant to start all this hoopla. All I wanted to say is I need more training, and describe what I'm going to do to get it. How it all got so twisted up is beyond me.

I appreciate all the responses to this, and I hope we can all still be friends.

And let's all get what training we can afford and have the time to do, so we can all be safe shooters. LOL.
 
Wow, I had no idea what I'd unleash in posting this thread!

I was talking over this particular response with a friend, and agreeing with a few of the statements in it, and all of a sudden my friend and I aren't speaking any more. I have no idea what happened. I guess we differed in our opinions and now we can't be friends.

I never meant to start all this hoopla. All I wanted to say is I need more training, and describe what I'm going to do to get it. How it all got so twisted up is beyond me.

I appreciate all the responses to this, and I hope we can all still be friends.

And let's all get what training we can afford and have the time to do, so we can all be safe shooters. LOL.


Excellent idea Millie!! Keep us posted as this develops. I think it would make a great thread on CFF for all to see and learn from.
 
Thanks for your reply and info!

Are the qualifications:

1. Static shooting

or

2. Dynamic among various targets?
The standard course is using the B-27 target is50 rounds but in the last two or 3 years they have a course,starting with officer seated in car with seatbelt on. Then officer gets out of car and using the front of the car for cover shoots two steel 9 in plates at 15 yard and then moves to the rear of the car and shoots 2 more plates at 20 yards. ..Then you run about 25 yards to a Target that is hidden behind a wall. . It's a shoot or no shoot target. If the target has a weapon you shoot.If not you don't.Each officer gets only 12 rounds to complete the course .Edit both are done day and night
 
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The standard course is using the B-27 target is50 rounds but in the last two or 3 years they have a course,starting with officer seated in car with seatbelt on. Then officer gets out of car and using the front of the car for cover shoots two steel 9 in plates at 15 yard and then moves to the rear of the car and shoots 2 more plates at 20 yards. ..Then you run about 25 yards to a Target that is hidden behind a wall. . It's a shoot or no shoot target. If the target has a weapon you shoot.If not you don't.Each officer gets only 12 rounds to complete the course.
Dammit Boy!!! What an improvement!!!!!!
 
The standard course is using the B-27 target is50 rounds but in the last two or 3 years they have a course,starting with officer seated in car with seatbelt on. Then officer gets out of car and using the front of the car for cover shoots two steel 9 in plates at 15 yard and then moves to the rear of the car and shoots 2 more plates at 20 yards. ..Then you run about 25 yards to a Target that is hidden behind a wall. . It's a shoot or no shoot target. If the target has a weapon you shoot.If not you don't.Each officer gets only 12 rounds to complete the course.

Many Thanks for the info!

At least they are getting something other than shooting a 3'x5' poster(B-27).

Take that "rectangle" outline/border away from the B-27 and watch the glory go downhill. Lol! Misses start becoming a more frequent occurrence. The eye naturally centers on the geometric shape (rectangle) instead of the front sight. Take the geometric reference away and the shot(s) seem to become more difficult.

Easy exercise standing at 7 yards with 3 targets spaced 5 yards apart:

  • (1) B-27 target
  • (1) USPSA target
  • (1) 8" Plate
Shoot 2 on the B-27, transition and shoot 2 on the USPSA target, then engage the steel. Generally we see decent a 2-shot group on the B-27, then the group opens up on the USPSA target ( c's and d's), then the plate is entirely missed.

The 8" plate, the USPSA "A" zone and the B-27 "10" ring all have the same target surface area, yet they increase in "difficulty" as the shooter goes from the B-27 to the USPSA target, and finally the 8" plate.
 
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Thx for the info JB!

I have seen numerous officers at different departments across the USA shoot static and do well. When they have to draw and engage multiple targets at multiple distances/angles, they fall apart.

I am not LE, but security in NC, we shoot ppsb pistol, rifle, and four other quals that are approved by the NRC, all are day, night.

We have to keep in mind, a qualification is not for the individual going through the process, its to shift liability from the agency to the person.

Second a standard = minimum threshold, Not a high goal by any measure.
 
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Just a reminder, tomorrow is my Basic handgun Class, which I'm very excited to take.

I hope to be able to get some pics for posting here, but I'll have to take that up with the instructor before class begins. He may say it's ok and he may not. All I can do is ask, saying I want to document my training for my forum family.

It should be an interesting afternoon for me. (Y'all please pray that it cools off a little by tomorrow, the heat and humidity this morning at the range was almost too much to bear! LOL.)
 
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Home from the Basic Handgun Class.

We had ~2.5 hours of classroom, and ~1.5 hours of shooting. There were 15 students, a few more women than men, and a mix of shooters, some who had some experience with guns, and others who had never fired a gun before.

The instructor was very focused of the safety aspects of things, showing us how to check our guns both visually and by actually putting a finger up the magazine well and into the back of the chamber, and how to hand a gun safely to someone else.

He taught us about how to grip the gun, and how to use the sights, and how to lean/stand a bit forward to counter the recoil of the gun. Also where to put out trigger finger, very important.

We began with plastic guns (I asked for a 1911 of course) and moved to actual guns (mostly Ruger .22s), handing them off to each other safely, "loading" an empty magazine into the guns and racking the slide, which wouldn't snap forward on these guns, there being no rounds in the magazine. But it gave us the idea of the movements we had to do.

*If I had taken this class a year ago, I'd have learned how to reload using one hand on the gun, instead of the funky two-hand way I did it till pretty recently! (I can't really describe the way I used to do it, but it was not efficient, as I learned on my first reload at my first match!)

We went over the the 4 rules of safety several times. We also discussed malfunctions and what to do in case of a squib. We saw pictures of guns that were blown apart by the firing of the next round when the previous bullet was stuck in the barrel.
*(I believe I had one of these the other day, as the gun made a weird noise, like a muffled pop, but I didn't see anything in the barrel, and the instructor said sometimes the bullet makes it out of the barrel, barely.)

Eventually we made our way to the range.

A lot of students were using .22 range rental guns, and some of us had our own guns. I chose my RIA 1911 9mm, naturally. LOL. It performed perfectly, as it sometimes chooses to do!

I think we all did well. I was one of the "experienced" shooters, so he had us go first. (The instructor had recognized me as a regular at the range.)

I hung around to watch the others shoot, and the ones who had never handled a gun, and whose hands were shaking, held it together and shot really well! (I remembered my first lesson with Tony about a year ago, when my hands were shaking too. And when the loud bangs made me jump too.)

We shot about 50+ rounds at various distances, and then we cleaned up our brass, and we were done.
Some of the students are going back for the CC class tomorrow.

I feel this class was $50 well spent. I needed to take this class, and I (re)learned some important things about being a safer shooter.
PS: I had no chance to ask the guy if I could take pics, I did get some, but not sure it's cool to post people's faces,
 
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@dalek We are like minded in so many ways. I liked what you were saying in some aspects, but unfortunately, some EXPERTS decided to define me by that post earlier that I wasn't being open minded. Please, don't ever let someone's post keep you from saying what you think. I have been beaten up on here for my opinion. I am a big boy and I can take it. Keep an open mind and post what you think.
 
I'm home from Battery Oaks, and I found out some things. As usual. LOL.

I tried the New Wizard today, on the timer, for the first time. I was not good. I got through 2 targets and missed the third at 7 yards. Now I'm asking myself, "Where did that round go? What if I was in a crowd and some dingbat started some trouble and I had to shoot him? If I miss the bad guy from 7 yards, who did I just hit, and maybe kill? Did I hit the little kid next to the bad guy, or maybe the old granny behind the bad guy?"

My times for the first 2 shots were in the 5.4(ish) second range. (Billy can correct me if I'm off.) I just wanted to get an idea of how much work I still need to do. So I'm nowhere near the time necessary to beat the Wizard. But I established a time to beat. And most importantly, I established that I need to do way better in placing my shots.

This is why I'm getting training, people. I took the Basic Handgun Class and learned a lot about safety. Now I have to learn to put my shots where I want them to go. I don't want to hit the kid or the little old lady!!

My next step is to get some training in how to shoot my guns accurately, as well as more quickly. I'm looking for a trainer for that next phase.

Many thanks to Billy and RS for having me down there, again!

See you guys at Battery Oaks next month!
 
It's been so long since I've shot, I'm gonna need a basic class again, lol. Seriously, with all the stuff I've had going on with my mom, i haven't had the time. Maybe this weekend.....

Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk
 
You are absolutely right.

Post deleted and apologies to you.
What did I miss? Was there a "yawn" about my exciting class report, perhaps? LOL.

Probably it's old hat to all of you, but since I'm a new shooter, it's important and exciting for me to do all these classes and range days and report back. I suppose not everyone is interested in an old lady's training/shooting journey, though!

Also, I'm sure interested in what got deleted....lol. Do tell!
 
It's been so long since I've shot, I'm gonna need a basic class again, lol. Seriously, with all the stuff I've had going on with my mom, i haven't had the time. Maybe this weekend.....

Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk
Sorry about your Mom, and maybe I'll see you at B. Oaks soon. The Wizard is calling to you.....
 
Your biggest problem is going to be recoil anticipation and trigger press.

Get dummy rounds and have someone mix them up in your mag. Challenge yourself to not disturb the sight picture during and after trigger press.
The dummys will show you're anticipating the shot and pressing gun low left, where most of your shots likely go.
 
Your biggest problem is going to be recoil anticipation and trigger press.

Get dummy rounds and have someone mix them up in your mag. Challenge yourself to not disturb the sight picture during and after trigger press.
The dummys will show you're anticipating the shot and pressing gun low left, where most of your shots likely go.
Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of people to shoot with to do the dummy rounds, but when I do, I'll have them set it up for me. My former trainer did some of that last winter. I did a lot of low, left shooting for a long time, but I seem to have that under control, at least most of the time...lol. It can't hurt to do the dummy rounds again, though, and they're still in the range bag!
Thanks for responding.
 
Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of people to shoot with to do the dummy rounds, but when I do, I'll have them set it up for me. My former trainer did some of that last winter. I did a lot of low, left shooting for a long time, but I seem to have that under control, at least most of the time...lol. It can't hurt to do the dummy rounds again, though, and they're still in the range bag!
Thanks for responding.

Cool, if you have it (trigger press and no anticipation) under control then you should be shooting accurately.
 
Cool, if you have it (trigger press and no anticipation) under control then you should be shooting accurately.

Well, I have the low left under better control, let's say. My accuracy leaves a lot to be desired, hence my need for more training. LOL.

I'm hoping that with some one-on-one training coming up soon, I'll be able to figure out the last little pieces and begin to get much more accurate.
 
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