Basic medical/trauma training offerings in NC?

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In the past I saw posts from thrillhill, sneakymedic and at least one other offering a short class on basic medical and trauma issues. Do any of those still exist in NC? A class that just runs through the proper usage of items in your standard first aid kit and tourniquet.

I know Dark Angle Medical does 16 hour class courses that are $400-450 plus travel but they have none scheduled in NC/SC/VA this year.

I looked at North American Rescue in SC but it does not appear they offer trainings.
 
Where are you located? I did a class a couple of years back but haven't really had time since. Things have slowed a little and I may could put on another if there is enough interest.
 
Sneaky did an awesome one that I sat in years ago. But I would be VERY weary of someone that's talking about needle decompression. To be honest, that's not a basic skill and can cause more problems when not done correctly.

Here's the basics;

Start the breathing
Stop the bleeding
Protect the wound
Treat for shock


From there, you can break up each category into several and spend tons of time on topics. The two biggest we would see at a range would be to stop bleeding and protecting wounds.
 
Yeah, I missed chuckmans class last year but I'd go if another one was offered!
 
I might try to do a class in mid-Spring. I had hoped to do one around now but grad school is getting the better of me.

I enjoyed teaching the class last August; we had a lot of fun.
 
billyh;n95082 said:
Sneaky did an awesome one that I sat in years ago. But I would be VERY weary of someone that's talking about needle decompression.
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W.......T.......H......?! That's a good way to loose everything you own. Good Samaritan laws DO NOT PROTECT YOU when you go beyond the scope of your training. And no one will buy that you were realistically thought needle decompression in a basic class. I had a cert somewhere between EMT and Paramedic. We were not allowed to even touch needles. I know how to do things that I mostly likely would not do unless it was family or close friend anymore. Tread carefully on those things.


These folks run Wilderness First aid, Advanced Wilderness First Aid, and Wilderness First Responder. To be honest, most of the wilderness style classes will use minimal gear and teach you to make do with what you have in some cases. Those are both good skills to have. And they might teach you how to prevent/ potentially reverse tension pneumothorax WITHOUT needles. Some of the wilderness courses will teach that because you are dealing with falls and sharp gear which can produce nasty puncture wounds in the chest.


https://landmarklearning.edu/content/course-calendar
 
When I teach we talk about tension pneumo and needle thorancentesis, but I don't really 'teach' it. Aside from perforating thoracic trauma, it is incredibly rare. As for the Good Samaritan law, the law reads "Any person who renders first aid or emergency assistance at the scene of a motor vehicle crash on any street or highway to any person injured as a result of the accident, shall not be liable in civil damages for any acts or omissions relating to the services rendered, unless the acts or omissions amount to wanton conduct or intentional wrongdoing." GS 20-166

Of course, how the law reads and what actually happens can be two separate things.
 
Sneakymedic gave a great class back in 2013.

Mostly a range first aid class. Stop the bleeding. Covered hands on with quick clot, pressure bandages, pressure points, and applying tourniquets. Lots of hands on also, you have been warned.

That with a basic CPR class which everyone should take if possible, should be good for the range for the average Joe.
 
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I took a class like this a few years ago - I'd be up for a refresher course while it's still cool out.
 
chiefjason;n95647 said:
W.......T.......H......?! That's a good way to loose everything you own. Good Samaritan laws DO NOT PROTECT YOU when you go beyond the scope of your training. And no one will buy that you were realistically thought needle decompression in a basic class. I had a cert somewhere between EMT and Paramedic. We were not allowed to even touch needles. I know how to do things that I mostly likely would not do unless it was family or close friend anymore. Tread carefully on those things.
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I've sat through a few classes that not only talk about it but show you how to do it. looking through Recoil Magazine 9/10 medical kits come with needles for it too. Do enough until the professionals get there and don't tell them how to do their job.
 
billyh;95943 said:
I've sat through a few classes that not only talk about it but show you how to do it. looking through Recoil Magazine 9/10 medical kits come with needles for it too. Do enough until the professionals get there and don't tell them how to do their job.
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People need to know the risks involved in doing this stuff. Period. Stepping over your training will most likely qualify you for the wanton part of breaking the Good Samaritan laws. If you have not been trained to do it, you best not do it on a random stranger. And you better be sure the certification you got with your training is legit if you do. Not just, I took a class. A legit class, with legit trainers, with legit qualifications from reputable organizations.

If you save their life, great. If they die, you have to explain your actions. And your training if it goes beyond basic care. Breaking the skin barrier on a patient goes beyond basic. You are required to be trained to administer an epi pen and they are darn near idiot proof.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
chiefjason;n96311 said:
People need to know the risks involved in doing this stuff. Period. Stepping over your training will most likely qualify you for the wanton part of breaking the Good Samaritan laws. If you have not been trained to do it, you best not do it on a random stranger. And you better be sure the certification you got with your training is legit if you do. Not just, I took a class. A legit class, with legit trainers, with legit qualifications from reputable organizations.

If you save their life, great. If they die, you have to explain your actions. And your training if it goes beyond basic care. Breaking the skin barrier on a patient goes beyond basic. You are required to be trained to administer an epi pen and they are darn near idiot proof.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If you have had formal training you actually have more liability. Weird how the law works. For that particular procedure, needling a chest, it's very, very hard to make someone permanently worse. Still, it's a good point, and you should never overreach with regard to skills.
 
The class I took covered the topic but with all the same heavy disclaimers CJ posted. My FAK is built around "survive until the medics arrive" and It does not Include a needle.
 
Catfish;n96421 said:
My FAK is built around "survive until the medics arrive" and It does not Include a needle.
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There are different levels of preparedness. One is as you say, survive until help arrives. The other is survive when help isn't and won't be coming.
 
noway2;n96436 said:
There are different levels of preparedness. One is as you say, survive until help arrives. The other is survive when help isn't and won't be coming.
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Yes. An IFAK is meant for YOU, not a buddy or loved one. That is for a different kit. And there is the IFAK all the way up to the multi-party multi-day expedition-style kits.

Identify your needs and stock and train accordingly.
 
chiefjason;n95647 said:
These folks run Wilderness First aid, Advanced Wilderness First Aid, and Wilderness First Responder. To be honest, most of the wilderness style classes will use minimal gear and teach you to make do with what you have in some cases. Those are both good skills to have. And they might teach you how to prevent/ potentially reverse tension pneumothorax WITHOUT needles. Some of the wilderness courses will teach that because you are dealing with falls and sharp gear which can produce nasty puncture wounds in the chest.


https://landmarklearning.edu/content/course-calendar
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This is who I did my Wilderness First Responder through and they're great, if you have the time and the money. My class was 90hrs. in 8 days. The guy that owns/runs the operation is also a Paramedic instructor, so he know both sides of trauma care. I don't recall a non-needle resolution to a TP, but in a wilderness setting, regular rules don't apply. We played with needles and gave injections.
 
noway2;n96436 said:
There are different levels of preparedness. One is as you say, survive until help arrives. The other is survive when help isn't and won't be coming.
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This is the primary difference between regular medicine and wilderness medicine. Regular first aid and even EMT's you are taught to stabilize and transport. In wilderness medicine, you're not getting out any time soon and no one is coming.
 
georgel;n97561 said:
This is the primary difference between regular medicine and wilderness medicine. Regular first aid and even EMT's you are taught to stabilize and transport. In wilderness medicine, you're not getting out any time soon and no one is coming.
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You and I spoke of this at Chuckman's class. I would like to take such a class if my finances and schedule allow it.
 
Chuckman;n96363 said:
If you have had formal training you actually have more liability. Weird how the law works. For that particular procedure, needling a chest, it's very, very hard to make someone permanently worse. Still, it's a good point, and you should never overreach with regard to skills.
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Yeah, it's funny. Skills are great, but they come with expectations for actions. A fool screwing up is just a fool, a professional screwing up is negligence. Not really wanting to make this a don't act post. More a, you need to know the consequences post. Kind of like there are few contraindications for CPR. Giving a diabetic glucose really won't make them worse if you are wrong. etc But you need to be able to explain why you did it and how you knew about it if things go sideways. I used to be qualified to remove helmets, ski and motorcycle. At this point, unless I think someone is going to die unless it's removed it will stay on. One missed step and somebody does not walk again. Do no harm first. Second, dead is dead and that's not the outcome we look for. But in this legal environment a heathy dose of CYA and some fore thought is a good plan. A buddy of mine claimed to have tracheotomied a guy with a pocket knife and a ball point pen in the woods. It worked, according to him, don't really recommend that action as a first resort though. lol


georgel;n97558 said:
This is who I did my Wilderness First Responder through and they're great, if you have the time and the money. My class was 90hrs. in 8 days. The guy that owns/runs the operation is also a Paramedic instructor, so he know both sides of trauma care. I don't recall a non-needle resolution to a TP, but in a wilderness setting, regular rules don't apply. We played with needles and gave injections.
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Oh the details. For closed TP, yeah not much besides a needle. And that is a serious possibility in the outdoors with blunt trauma from falls. Had a buddy lost a lung in a climbing accident from the impact. Open TP you can rig up an occlusive dressing that will help although slower than needle. Things may have changed in first aid since I did mine. I know ski patrol has a very respected outdoor first aid course. It's geared towards semi remote, but not exactly wilderness. Although because of my major we went heavy into making do with gear that was not dedicated first aid stuff. Still didn't go near needle work. I didn't get trained on epi pens until Boy Scouts.

Really want to get weird, we had paramedics doing ski patrol that had conflicting protocols. Patrol said they could administer med, paramedic training said they had too. Resolution was they had to sign out, take their gear to their car, and come back with their personal gear to assist. GRRR for dumb, legal crap.
 
RJT;n97595 said:
http://www.skinnymedic.com/

Location:
Wheaton Arms, Inc.
133 Kiowa Ln.
Piedmont, SC 29673

Also has a great Youtube channel.
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I think I met him at Prepper Camp in Saluda a couple of years back. Seemed like a nice guy. I wouldn't mind taking his class. As one of my instructors used to say, Sometimes a teacher, always a student.
 
Our trigger was 2hrs. If we were over 2hrs way from definitive care, i.e. a hospital, then the wilderness protocols were in effect. This included resetting of fractures, reduction of dislocations and administration of medications, including injections.

Perhaps we should discuss some of the variations in pre-hosptial care. There's First Aid, Extended Field Care (there's a term that escapes me for the movment) and there's Trauma Care. Tactical Combat Casualty Care or TCCC is a bit of a different animal and something this group would relate to. i don't know how widely this is taught in the military right now. Maybe someone can chime in.
 
georgel;n97657 said:
Our trigger was 2hrs. If we were over 2hrs way from definitive care, i.e. a hospital, then the wilderness protocols were in effect. This included resetting of fractures, reduction of dislocations and administration of medications, including injections.

Perhaps we should discuss some of the variations in pre-hosptial care. There's First Aid, Extended Field Care (there's a term that escapes me for the movment) and there's Trauma Care. Tactical Combat Casualty Care or TCCC is a bit of a different animal and something this group would relate to. i don't know how widely this is taught in the military right now. Maybe someone can chime in.
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TCCC is still the gold standard. I know all Marines are taught "buddy aid", or essential first aid, and the combat fields get TCCC as a follow up.

TCCC does not equal basic first aid; there are gaping holes.
 
The Army teaches needles but we were under a different circumstance and different rules. You're more likely to see gun shot wounds and TP injuries. That said, I STILL wouldnt try that on a civilian unless I had updated qualifications AND some EXPERT on the phone giving me directions and that it was pretty clear the person was not going to make it otherwise! You can hurt more than help in some cases and you don't want that on you!
 
Some perspective.....

There is no good data to give numbers on prevalence of tension pneumo in trauma. There is some data regarding TP in inpatients secondary to other lung pathologies and/or surgery. One article in the Journal of Emergency Medicine stated that in pre-hospital trauma a probability of 0.3% may be inflated, and that number came from a study from the Vietnam war.

In order to have a tension pneumo, there needs to be something going on to the pleura around the lung, and the lung itself, and it must be closed (well, not in every instance, but the vast majority). So, open chest trauma usually (but not always) will lead to a simple pneumo and not a TP. When you seal the holes, then it can most definitely become a TP.

The signs/symptoms (s/s) of a TP, while very specific, are also often very subtle, and very difficulty to pick up in the field in the best of circumstances. If you needle someone who doesn't have one, and unless you pierce vasculature that lies immediately below and parallel to the rib, the worst thing that happens is causing an open pneumo. Easy fix, you get a chest tube.

Bottom line: the probability you will encounter one is extraordinarily rare. The probability you see classical s/s is rarer. Don't needle if you haven't had the training, and if you have had the training, be sensitive that you may be liable for any damage.

Would I do it to a vic of a GSW, or a vic of a MVC? I have been in the medical field in some capacity since 1990, a paramedic/flight medic, a FMF corpsman, Enroute Care Nurse, TCCC instructor, ED nurse. Unless I see the most obvious signs AND I know EMS would be delayed, no.
 
Chuckman said:
Some perspective.....

There is no good data to give numbers on prevalence of tension pneumo in trauma. There is some data regarding TP in inpatients secondary to other lung pathologies and/or surgery. One article in the Journal of Emergency Medicine stated that in pre-hospital trauma a probability of 0.3% may be inflated, and that number came from a study from the Vietnam war.

In order to have a tension pneumo, there needs to be something going on to the pleura around the lung, and the lung itself, and it must be closed (well, not in every instance, but the vast majority). So, open chest trauma usually (but not always) will lead to a simple pneumo and not a TP. When you seal the holes, then it can most definitely become a TP.

The signs/symptoms (s/s) of a TP, while very specific, are also often very subtle, and very difficulty to pick up in the field in the best of circumstances. If you needle someone who doesn't have one, and unless you pierce vasculature that lies immediately below and parallel to the rib, the worst thing that happens is causing an open pneumo. Easy fix, you get a chest tube.

Bottom line: the probability you will encounter one is extraordinarily rare. The probability you see classical s/s is rarer. Don't needle if you haven't had the training, and if you have had the training, be sensitive that you may be liable for any damage.

Would I do it to a vic of a GSW, or a vic of a MVC? I have been in the medical field in some capacity since 1990, a paramedic/flight medic, a FMF corpsman, Enroute Care Nurse, TCCC instructor, ED nurse. Unless I see the most obvious signs AND I know EMS would be delayed, no.
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Piggybacking on this statement, I have been in the medical field for over 17 years now and have decompressed about 5 times total and All but one was successful and the person still did not make it. I have done 3 quick trachs also and all of the trachs and decompressions despite a butt load of training and knowing it was indicated I was still very nervous about it because it is a low frequency high danger skill that is rarely used. I wouldn't hesistate to do it if indicated again but if I was untrained or unsure of myself then I would not recommend attempting it at all.
 
In resurrecting this thread and in light of another discussion concerning NPA's and OPA's, it brings to light a basic issue, doing more harm than good or conversely if nothing is done will more harm come to the victim.

If you are in the city and a victim is lying the street bleeding from a fall out of a second story window, what do you do?
If you are in the mountains and a victim is lying bleeding after falling off a 20ft high cliff, what do you do?
It depends. It always depends. On many, many things. How long will it take for EMT's to get there? How badly is the victim bleeding. What's my training? Do I know how to assist? Will I harm them if I try to assist or will I help them? Will they die if I don't try to assist? Is there any other choice if I don't assist?

I think we sometimes have 2 perspectives in these discussions. One is traditional environments in a civilized society with hospitals at some accessible distance and EMT's or other rescue crew available to come aid at some point. The other is, there is no one else to come help. Your on your own. If you don't do it, no one else will.

I'm reminded of the movie The Martian, where they are trying to rescue the guy stuck on Mars. An almost impossible deadline is set for a team to build a capsule. The team lead says, "We'll do our best." The head of the project says, "He'll die if you don't."
 
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