Bolt vs semi

BigWaylon

BigWaylon

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started a thread in the optics section about a scope for my next purchase...but now that purchase has been made a little tougher (you can join the scope discussion here: https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/standard-scope-on-a-22lr.21733/)

Backstory: I own a Ruger American rimfire and an M&P 15-22 SBR, so one each of the basic categories. I do not own, and to the best of my recollection have never even shot, a 10/22.

My initial plan was to buy a Ruger 8360 (bolt). When I contacted an FFL about getting one, he found one in stock he could order, but also said he has the SA (21186) version already in stock.

It's really going to be a range toy. I like the quiet operation of the suppressed bolt gun. I've already filed paperwork for another rimfire can that's going to be dedicated to this next purchase. That being said, I know I should own a 10/22.

Toss out your thoughts. I'd prefer it to be ready to go out of the box, other than a scope. So, looking at the two below, what do I need to know? Street price for me is about a $50 difference, so not really part of her equation. Not exactly sure what the "combination scope base adapter" is on the SA, so maybe I'd need a picatinny rail for it?

The two options:
https://www.ruger.com/products/americanRimfireTarget/specSheets/8360.html
IMG_1226.JPG
  • MODEL NUMBER: 8360
  • CALIBER: 22 LR
  • StockBlack Laminate with Thumbhole
  • Capacity10
  • Overall Length37"
  • Barrel Length18"
  • SightsNone - Scope Base Installed
  • Thread Pattern1/2"-28
  • Length of Pull13.75"
  • Weight6.7 lb.
  • MaterialAlloy Steel
  • FinishSatin Blued
  • Twist1:16" RH
  • Grooves6
  • Suggested Retail$559.00
  • Features detachable, flush-mounted 10/22® BX-1 10-round rotary magazine and accept all 10/22® magazines, including the BX-25®, BX-25®x2 and BX-15®.

  • Easy-to-use 10/22®-style extended magazine release provides smooth, no-fuss removal of flush-mounted magazine.

  • Patent-pending Power Bedding® integral bedding block system positively locates the receiver and free-floats the barrel for outstanding accuracy.

  • Ruger Marksman Adjustable™ trigger offers a crisp release with a pull weight that is user adjustable between 3 and 5 pounds, allowing shooters to make that perfect shot.

  • Features an adjustable length of pull laminate stock with thumbhole.

  • Features a visible, accessible and easy-to-actuate tang safety that provides instant security.

  • Cold hammer-forged 0.860" target barrel for exceptional accuracy, longevity and easy cleaning. Factory-installed knurled thread protector protects the crown.

  • A 60° bolt provides ample scope clearance and the easy-to-use, receiver-mounted bolt release allows the bolt to be readily removed without requiring a pull of the trigger, a unique safety feature among rimfire, bolt-action rifles.

  • Factory-installed one-piece Picatinny aluminum scope rail.

https://www.ruger.com/products/1022TargetLite/specSheets/21186.html
IMG_1225.JPG
  • MODEL NUMBER: 21186
  • CALIBER: 22 LR
  • StockBlack Laminate with Thumbhole
  • Front SightNone
  • Rear SightNone
  • MaterialAlloy Steel
  • Twist1:16" RH
  • Capacity10
  • FinishSatin Blued
  • Weight5 lb.
  • Overall Length35.25"
  • Barrel Length16.13"
  • Grooves6
  • Suggested Retail$649.00
  • Adjustable lenght of pull laminate stock with thumbhole.

  • Features the BX-Trigger™ with a light, crisp 2.5 - 3 pound trigger pull weight with minimal overtravel and a positive reset.

  • Patented, detachable 10-round rotary magazine features a unique rotor to separate cartridges and provide reliable feeding.

  • Legendary action, a tried and true Ruger design, ensures consistent, reliable performance.

  • Cold hammer-forged barrel tensioned in aluminum alloy barrel sleeve features a 1/2"-28 threaded muzzle and is fitted with a thread cap which can be removed to allow for the use of muzzle accessories.

  • Positive, push-button, cross-bolt manual safety.

  • Combination scope base adapter for both Weaver-style and .22 tip-off scope mounts included.

  • Easy-to-use extended magazine release provides smooth, no-fuss removal of flush-mounted magazine.

  • Heat-stabilized, glass-filled, polymer trigger housing assembly is precision made of high-tech material for improved manufacturing tolerances, impact and abrasion-resistance and an unmatched ability to withstand the elements.
 
455VarmintEvolutionCoyote.png At least the Ruger's thumbhole stock is less horrid than CZ's latest offering...
 
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I'm a BIG CZ fan, but dabble in Anschutz and vintage Winchesters as well. I don't own a 10/22 and have zero plans to add one to my sizeable rimfire collection. I already have three semi-auto rimfires and the 10/22 brings nothing to the table that the others already don't have.

For the money a CZ 455 Varmint or Tacticool is tough to beat. However they will be getting some serious competition from Tikka / Sako starting Summer of this year in the form of the T1X:

https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/tikka-t1x.21116/
 
So...so far I've had a couple people recommend a different bolt gun. But nobody giving me any pros/cons between bolts and semis for me to think about.

Also surprised I haven't been chastised for not already owning a 10/22. :D

Is there anything inherent to the 10/22 that would make it less accurate than the bolt gun? (When comparing same brand/barrel/trigger, or at least close to it)
 
I’ll throw out one I thought I’d never like but after little time behind it ... the Ruger Precision Rimfire. It is not the attractive looking and I am not much on the tactical chassis thing but the way it fits and you an dial it in for your own fit it nice. The trigger out of the box is one of Ruger’s best and can be dialed down to what they claim is 2lbs but it breaks sweet and actually feels even lighter. The intangible that makes it real attractive is Volquartsen has a couple match barrels in the works that will be easily user swappable.
 
NCFubar said:
I’ll throw out one I thought I’d never like but after little time behind it ... the Ruger Precision Rimfire.
Click to expand...
Yeah...that thing is hideous. I'm not sure I could bring myself to buy one. But, I have looked at it.
 
BigWaylon said:
So...so far I've had a couple people recommend a different bolt gun. But nobody giving me any pros/cons between bolts and semis for me to think about.

Also surprised I haven't been chastised for not already owning a 10/22. :D

Is there anything inherent to the 10/22 that would make it less accurate than the bolt gun? (When comparing same brand/barrel/trigger, or at least close to it)
Click to expand...
If you’re looking for accuracy on a budget, throw out the idea of a 10/22. A 10/22 can be made extremely accurate, but not for cheap. You can buy a really nice bolt gun and a scope for less than you’d have to spend on a 10/22 to get the same level of accuracy.

Oh yeah, and did anyone mention the new Tikka? ;)
 
Affordable accuracy sounds like a CZ bolt action to me. Although there are rumors that a Savage bolt would fill this role also.

Although my CZ 512 shoots amazing well for a semi. Then again, amazingly well for me may not be that great for others. :(
 
I don’t profess to know, but I’ve long guessed that the 10/22 became popular because it was both reliable and accurate at a price. Once it had a massive following folks started optimizing for accuracy, and before you know it they’d added $500 worth of parts to a $200 (or less) gun.

I have a couple, but I’d give them up long before giving up one of the cz453’s if I was interested in accuracy.
 
hlpressley said:
If you’re looking for accuracy on a budget, throw out the idea of a 10/22. A 10/22 can be made extremely accurate, but not for cheap. You can buy a really nice bolt gun and a scope for less than you’d have to spend on a 10/22 to get the same level of accuracy.
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JimB said:
I don’t profess to know, but I’ve long guessed that the 10/22 became popular because it was both reliable and accurate at a price. Once it had a massive following folks started optimizing for accuracy, and before you know it they’d added $500 worth of parts to a $200 (or less) gun.

I have a couple, but I’d give them up long before giving up one of the cz453’s if I was interested in accuracy.
Click to expand...
So...

Are you both saying that of the two I listed (not going off into CZs, Tikkas, etc), which have the same stock and similar barrels/triggers, that the bolt is by default going to be more accurate? If so, is there a reason?
 
BigWaylon said:
So...

Are you both saying that of the two I listed (not going off into CZs, Tikkas, etc), which have the same stock and similar barrels/triggers, that the bolt is by default going to be more accurate? If so, is there a reason?
Click to expand...
I don’t have the answer for that because I have no first hand experience with either of the two that you mentioned above.

What I do have experience with is a $1,000 10/22 that won’t come close to the accuracy that my $220 Savage bolt gun has.
 
Suppressed 10/22 gets mags dirty pretty fast. They get gritty and the rotary part won't spin so you get malfunctions. Buy extras and keep them clean.:D

That won't be an issue with a bolt action.

CHRIS
 
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NCFubar said:
I’ll throw out one I thought I’d never like but after little time behind it ... the Ruger Precision Rimfire. It is not the attractive looking and I am not much on the tactical chassis thing but the way it fits and you an dial it in for your own fit it nice. The trigger out of the box is one of Ruger’s best and can be dialed down to what they claim is 2lbs but it breaks sweet and actually feels even lighter. The intangible that makes it real attractive is Volquartsen has a couple match barrels in the works that will be easily user swappable.
Click to expand...

I had one that i topped with a nice Leupold, and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.....(ok so maybe not THAT bad, but with my best 50 yards groups being in the 3" range, regardless of the ammo, it wasn't worth keeping around )
 
The 10-22 I mentioned in your scope thread with a 2.5# trigger will put 10 Tenex into a dime at 25 yards.
The trigger update is all I have done.
It is a Wal-Mart laminated Mannlicher stocked 10-22 I got on sale at Wal-Mart 20+ years ago.
So they can be very accurate.
 
BigWaylon said:
So...

Are you both saying that of the two I listed (not going off into CZs, Tikkas, etc), which have the same stock and similar barrels/triggers, that the bolt is by default going to be more accurate? If so, is there a reason?
Click to expand...

Really don’t know. I would expect the bolt to be quieter suppressed and more accurate, but with a rim fire the smallest th8ngs matter, so you could get a great chamber in the semi and tiny throating issue in the bolt, or maybe one barrel has imperceptibly rougher rifling. This is kinda why brand matters, it comes down to consistency.
 
@BigWaylon it may be worth spending a little reading time on rimfire central before committing. There is virtually an unlimited amount of information there, and likely good stuff on any makes and models you are considering. When I bought my first rimfire rifle I spent weeks reading that stuff. I finally had to admit I was not going to do everything I read and learned there, but it did help me quite a bit.
 
Bolt gun fan here if you like precison shooting at the range. Just plinking its more off a toss up and prefrence depending target size and target.


10/22 is popular because its like legos for adults with lots of customizable aftermarket parts

Savage bolt is popular because its cheap and accurate accutrigger and can be customized pretty easily with pretty large aftermarket support

Cz is popular because good accuracy relatively inexpensive solid package and your worried about your image showing up with a savage at the range.


J/k with the last part, I own the savage fvsr bolt and another semi auto marlin and just enjoy the bolt action more personally.
 
I was in the same boat last year. I've seen a lot of accurate 10/22's but they were all full custom builds.. 10/22's are the AR of the 22 world, infinitely customizeable. For me I wanted precision without breaking the bank of a full custom build so I went with a CZ 455 tacticool and couldn't be happier. It was super nice out of the box but I have made a few changes. Yo Dave trigger kit, 25 moa DIP rail, and a matthews fabrication cheek riser. I've also heard very good things about the savage FVSR.
 
There is so much variance between two of the same rimfire it makes it tough.

My 10/22 is a lucky one I think. It will keep federal bulk in a 4" target at 100yds all day with a cheap scope. No matter conditions, skills, what have you. A friend bought the same model the same day. It does 10" usually...

Bolt actions have less going on. Pull trigger, manually cycle, repeat. There are pages upon pages discussing the semi vs bolt accuracy.

Again I feel lucky with my 10/22 but I'm totally wanting a super accurate rimfire plinker and I shall start with a bolt gun.
 
10/22s are the ARs of 22s.

You can dump insane amounts of money into one, or you can run it out of the box.

You have a RAR already, so the magazines are interchangeable. They’ve been around forever, so finding them is easy.

I likely have 1800 in mine with the scope....

For plinking like you will do likely, get the one you feel comfortable with. I don’t know if I like the stock on that one listed personally, there are other Lite versions to be had, and that is dependent on if you are looking for a lite rig.
 
My opinion:
1.You should have a 10/22. Go buy the cheapest model with threads.
2. Slap a cheap red dot on it.
3. Hose targets and Plink to your hearts content. Don't expect precision accuracy and you will be thouroughly satisfied. It's a sporty little Mazda Miata. It does everything pretty well. It isn't really going to impress anybody, but you don't care because it's so damn fun to drive!

Next get a savage FVSR bolt gun.

You could have both for the price of those Rugers above!

.22 bolt guns with suppressors are about the funnest most pleasant suppressed guns you can fire.


If I had to choose between two above I'd way rather have the bolt gun. Stick my little thunderbeast on it!!
 
JimB said:
Really don’t know. I would expect the bolt to be quieter suppressed and more accurate, but with a rim fire the smallest th8ngs matter, so you could get a great chamber in the semi and tiny throating issue in the bolt, or maybe one barrel has imperceptibly rougher rifling. This is kinda why brand matters, it comes down to consistency.
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Well said. Not always just brand because some large manufacturers have multiple levels of cost/quality/consistency.

So what about the moving mass of the bolt, etc. in a semi auto? Does that make a diff or is the bullet out of the barrel before that becomes a factor? I know it would be gone before the bolt hit the backstop but if the bolt is moving at all could it not move a little differently each shot assuming tolerances allowed, and would it be enough to make a difference? I know there are a lot more factors to accuracy but I'm focusing on semi vs bolt action. If it's not a factor then I don't see why a semi wouldn't be just as accurate all else being equal.
 
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NKD said:
.22 bolt guns with suppressors are about the funnest most pleasant suppressed guns you can fire.
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Oh, trust me...I know. The Element 2 I ordered will be rimfire can number 7. ;)

IMG_0877.JPG
 
Flashpoint said:
I know it would be gone before the bolt hit the backstop but if the bolt is moving at all could it not move a little differently each shot assuming tolerances allowed, and would it be enough to make a difference?
Click to expand...

The bolt is absolutely moving before the bullet exits the barrel, but not by very much, maybe 1/10”. I do think that how the bolt moves can affect accuracy, and both heat and dirt will affect how the bolt moves as will the tolerances you mentioned and even the angle and tilt of the gun. This is all crazy benchrest kinda stuff, I don’t shoot well enough that it matters, but since we’re talking about the hypothetical.

@BigWaylon have you considered a 10/22 pistol? I can never remember the name of the things, but suppressed and shooting from a bipod would be great fun out to 100 I think.
 
JimB said:
@BigWaylon have you considered a 10/22 pistol? I can never remember the name of the things, but suppressed and shooting from a bipod would be great fun out to 100 I think.
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Are you talking about the Ruger Chargers?
 
Ruger makes or did make a target model with a heavier barrel......iirc they were about $400 or so. It was very consistent for a ruger. I am biased to CZ rimfires......but by all means the target model was very respectable.
 
BowWow said:
Ruger makes or did make a target model with a heavier barrel......iirc they were about $400 or so. It was very consistent for a ruger. I am biased to CZ rimfires......but by all means the target model was very respectable.
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The bolt version I posted in the initial post is labeled a Target model and lists a target barrel as part of the description.
 
BigWaylon said:
The bolt version I posted in the initial post is labeled a Target model and lists a target barrel as part of the description.
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It was 10-22 i was referring to, i would like to say that it came factory with a green mountain barrel. It had a laminated stock with a heavy stainless barrel. I was looking for it on rugers site, but i cant find it
 
I think I made my decision earlier today. Just need to wait until Monday for some companies to be open so I can get confirmation on a couple things. Gotta make sure host/mount/scope are all gonna play nice together.

I'll wait until everything is in hand and post a pic. :cool:
 
Well, crap. Y'all are going to have to wait at least another week. Rifle was out for delivery today with a 3p-7p window. My FFL buddy (home-based, but free) made it home by 2:45p, and UPS had attempted to deliver it at 2:31p.

My buddy leaves for vacation in the morning, and won't be back until 2/15. Evidently the shipper had it set so the FFL couldn't change the delivery option to "hold at UPS"...and that's a shame because he lives ~5 minutes from the distribution center and would've grabbed it in the morning before leaving town. All he could do was select a new date of 2/15.

So, I wait. :mad:
 
FVSR. 10/22 entry is cheap, then you gotta buy all the goodies to begin to get as accurate as a FVSR or CZ or Tikka
 
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