Catastrophic AR failure(now with pictures)

I_load_my_own

I_load_my_own

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Well, it happened, to me. Let me be the first to tell you if you ever think "it will never happen to me", you're wrong, or at least I was.
I was shooting yesterday, had gone through one mag, started into a new mag and several shots down range, pulled the trigger and "click". I dropped the mag, ejected the round, visually inspected it and didn't see anything wrong with it that I could tell. I locked the slide back, manually dropped the round into the barrel and dropped the slide. Aimed the gun and BOOM.
The upper is toast, the lower is fine and I think that is only because the mag was not in so the pressure had somewhere to go down, although some of the shrapnel ended up in my arm that had to be dug out and small pieces hit my stomach, looks like I walked though a brier patch.
In the end, I am thankful that I am okay and feel I got lucky.

Now for my questions.
Any clues you can give me to look for would be appreciated. I can say that I did look in the barrel and I do not see any damage nor are there any bullets stuck. My first thought was I had a squib then the second round blew up but would there be enough to push both bullets out IF that was the case?

Yes, the rounds were reloads but no way it could have been a double charge as that spills out from 223.
As I said I looked at the round and didn't see any cracks but the naked eye cannot always see those so if a case had a crack say in the middle, not the neck, could that cause it to blow up like it did.
I know I will never know what caused this but I sure wish I could know so I could try to prevent it from ever happening again.
 
I_load_my_own said:
Well, it happened, to me. Let me be the first to tell you if you ever think "it will never happen to me", you're wrong, or at least I was.
I was shooting yesterday, had gone through one mag, started into a new mag and several shots down range, pulled the trigger and "click". I dropped the mag, ejected the round, visually inspected it and didn't see anything wrong with it that I could tell. I locked the slide back, manually dropped the round into the barrel and dropped the slide. Aimed the gun and BOOM.
The upper is toast, the lower is fine and I think that is only because the mag was not in so the pressure had somewhere to go down, although some of the shrapnel ended up in my arm that had to be dug out and small pieces hit my stomach, looks like I walked though a brier patch.
In the end, I am thankful that I am okay and feel I got lucky.

Now for my questions.
Any clues you can give me to look for would be appreciated. I can say that I did look in the barrel and I do not see any damage nor are there any bullets stuck. My first thought was I had a squib then the second round blew up but would there be enough to push both bullets out IF that was the case?

Yes, the rounds were reloads but no way it could have been a double charge as that spills out from 223.
As I said I looked at the round and didn't see any cracks but the naked eye cannot always see those so if a case had a crack say in the middle, not the neck, could that cause it to blow up like it did.
I know I will never know what caused this but I sure wish I could know so I could try to prevent it from ever happening again.
Click to expand...

Are you sure the bolt was 100% in battery?
 
Glad you're ok!

So you got a click, ejected the round, re-chambered the same round and got a boom?

- when you visually inspected the round (after the click but before the boom) what did the primer look like? had it been struck or was it clean?
- what did the case look like after the boom, and where did you find it?
 
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Railsplitter said:
Are you sure the bolt was 100% in battery?
Click to expand...

I am not 100% sure of that. I do not, sorry, DID not have a forward assist so my assumption was if it wasn't 100% in battery that it wouldn't fire. I am now assuming you are saying that it will still?
I will see what I can get as far as pictures this evening when I am home, I didn't really want to look at it much last night :mad:
 
Catfish said:
Glad you're ok!

So you got a click, ejected the round, re-chambered the same round and got a boom?

The upper is cracked apart where the case normally ejects from.

- when you visually inspected the round (after the click but before the boom) what did the primer look like? had it been struck or was it clean?
- what did the case look like after the boom, and where did you find it?
Click to expand...

Yes, same round that I ejected and the primer had not been struck.
I don't think I have that case anymore. Someone picked up the brass for me but they didn't say that any of them looked out of place, I was trying to stop the bleeding.
I will go through the brass to see if I see any. I can say that there is a piece of brass welded to the end of the barrel when I look at that.

I am sorry, I really should have got pictures before I posted this.
 
I suspect your squib theory may be correct. Both bullets may well have been driven from the barrel.
First chambering hits bullet stuck in barrel, doesn't set back much, if at all, isn't far enough in battery hammer doesn't hit pin. Then round already in chamber, no drag from mag, bolt slams forward a little faster, set back happens, bolt makes it into battery, pressure launches both bullets and various other things.

ETA it seems unlikely a squib that only moved the bullet that far would cycle, hmm
 
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Yikes. Glad you weren’t injured worse. Following for follow ups.
 
I_load_my_own said:
I am not 100% sure of that. I do not, sorry, DID not have a forward assist so my assumption was if it wasn't 100% in battery that it wouldn't fire. I am now assuming you are saying that it will still?
I will see what I can get as far as pictures this evening when I am home, I didn't really want to look at it much last night :mad:
Click to expand...

Yes I do suspect that it fired out of battery but I don't know how to confirm that.

I don't suspect a squib because the prior round cycled the gun and because you don't report any damage to the barrel.

The clean primer indicates that your gun failed to go into battery the first time you chambered that round, so it's reasonable to suspect that happened again.

I won't speculate why or how because a WAG doesn't help you much.
 
Catfish said:
Yes I do suspect that it fired out of battery but I don't know how to confirm that.

I don't suspect a squib because the prior round cycled the gun and because you don't report any damage to the barrel.

The clean primer indicates that your gun failed to go into battery the first time you chambered that round, so it's reasonable to suspect that happened again.

I won't speculate why or how because a WAG doesn't help you much.
Click to expand...

At this point nothing is more that a WAG but after reading more and more I feel that it did fire out of battery which freaks me out. The previous round did cycle fine or at least enough to eject the case as I didn't have to eject that one.
 
what about those reloads? Even though I made the case for it, it's way more likely it was a reloading error than an AR-15 fired out of battery.

how hot are they? Pull a few and check the charge weight and bullet weight. Examine the powder, compare it with some fresh from the bottle.

check a few for neck tension.. . anything you can think of...

example: I once mixed ~50 grains of pistol powder with a full hopper of Varget because I failed to clean the measure prior to use. That would have caused a mystery ka-boom.
 
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Catfish said:
what about those reloads? Even though I made the case for it, it's way more likely it was a reloading error than an AR-15 fired out of battery.

how hot are they? Pull a few and check the charge weight and bullet weight. Examine the powder, compare it with some fresh from the bottle.

check a few for neck tension.. . anything you can think of...

example: I once mixed ~50 grains of pistol powder with a full hopper of Varget because I failed to clean the measure prior to use. That would have caused a mystery ka-boom.
Click to expand...

My first thought was an overcharged reload. AR's, while not impossible to fire out of battery, are pretty difficult to get to fire out of battery. Without the locking lugs fully engaging the firing pin doesn't have enough distance to engage the primer......usually.


In all the exercises with thousands of rounds and thousands of AR's being run in the Marine Corps I've never seen it.

My second thought was a squib but without any damage to the interior of the barrel that is unlikely. Not impossible but unlikely.

Generally the simplest solution is the answer which is why I'm leaning towards an overcharged reload.
 
Chdamn said:
My first thought was an overcharged reload. AR's, while not impossible to fire out of battery, are pretty difficult to get to fire out of battery. Without the locking lugs fully engaging the firing pin doesn't have enough distance to engage the primer......usually.


In all the exercises with thousands of rounds and thousands of AR's being run in the Marine Corps I've never seen it.

My second thought was a squib but without any damage to the interior of the barrel that is unlikely. Not impossible but unlikely.

Generally the simplest solution is the answer which is why I'm leaning towards an overcharged reload.
Click to expand...


I will pull several rounds to check the powder, may be a few days before I can get to that but will post what I find.
 
I_load_my_own said:
I will pull several rounds to check the powder, may be a few days before I can get to that but will post what I find.
Click to expand...
Chdamn said:
My first thought was an overcharged reload. AR's, while not impossible to fire out of battery, are pretty difficult to get to fire out of battery. Without the locking lugs fully engaging the firing pin doesn't have enough distance to engage the primer......usually.


In all the exercises with thousands of rounds and thousands of AR's being run in the Marine Corps I've never seen it.

My second thought was a squib but without any damage to the interior of the barrel that is unlikely. Not impossible but unlikely.

Generally the simplest solution is the answer which is why I'm leaning towards an overcharged reload.
Click to expand...


I will still pull some but still keep going over this in my mind that it didn't chamber the first time or something to cause it to not fire but after pulling it out and putting it back in is when it DID fire.
Amount of powder wouldn't have affected that.
 
Show pic of the barrel top down. If it were a squib round it will have bulged exactly where that occurred past the barrel extension. If it was an OOB condition, there will be no bulge.

My money is on an underpowered squib stuck in barrel and a bulge showing...


If you don't have a powder check in your reloading rig....don't reload .223
 
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……. after the "click", did you unload and be sure you could see daylight through the barrel?
 
BowWow said:
……. after the "click", did you unload and be sure you could see daylight through the barrel?
Click to expand...

:( No, hindsight is a great thing. I have already been over that in my head many many times and will now forever do that.
 
I_load_my_own said:
:( No, hindsight is a great thing. I have already been over that in my head many many times and will now forever do that.
Click to expand...

Some people might flip out if they saw you looking down the muzzle. Being sure a cleaning rod, wooden dowel or a cleaning rope goes completely though would be an alternative. Very glad you are still able to chat with us!
 
Okay, photos are here. Sorry they are not great but I do not own a camera other than what is on my phone.

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Load data is with in the standards, I think. If there are any re-loaders reading this please do me a favor and see if your book has data for Accurate 2200 55gn BT-FMJ and let me know what the MAX is you have in your book.
I ask this because I was using the data from Accurate Powders site and it has a max of 23.5 BUT I then looked in a Lee book that I have and it has a Max of 22.0 and then to get even more crazy, found another site that has it as a Max of 24.9 so I don't know which one to believe.
I load at 22.5 but I am somewhat worried with what Lee has as the Max. I have loaded and shot thousands of them at the 22.5.
 
Just asking but what did the bolt look like in the rear and the buffer. Was it dented up?
 
My only book (Hornady) doesn’t list accurate 2200 but the 2460’s max load is 24.2gr
 
No
KnotRight said:
Just asking but what did the bolt look like in the rear and the buffer. Was it dented up?
Click to expand...
the buffer is fine. The bolt assuming I am looking at it correctly is okay other than then ejector is bent.
 
With no damage done to the buffer and back of the bolt I would think that all the pressure was in the chamber (in battery). With the front part of the receiver damaged (and on the opposite side of the extractor) and the extractor damaged I am going with and over charged round. JUST A GUESS.
 
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How about this for a possibility; while firing a piece of the case neck remains in the chamber not allowing the next round's primer strike. The next movement of dropping the round and letting the bolt freefall on the round drives the round foreward enough to allow a primer strike on the round causing it to fire in a obstructed chamber. Possibly one of the reasons some will not reload rounds, case inspection is vital.
 
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It’s gotta be either a squib or an overcharge.

I’m voting a squib. “Bolt picked up next round, didn’t go into battery fully due to lack of propulsion”. That round was inspected, found to be gtg, then reinserted. Due to the previous squib.. “Normal round chambering and loading from bolt lock,, seems “A ok”. Then pull the trigger.... BOOM, catastrophe!! Wtf just happened!!!

Squib load.

Yeah, yeah, the barrel looks fine after the fact. Speculation says it was the correct cirumstances for the squib to be far enough down the barrel to be pushed out but not far enough to keep the weaker aluminum upper from bearing the brunt as well as the small extractor pin from getting thrashed in the bolt....




Glad you are gtg physically, regardless:)
 
take some pics of the barrel and extension. It certainly looks pretty far back for a squib but most of the damage to the bolt lugs is in the rear indicating it was at least partially in battery. What type of chamber did the barrel have? (nato, wylde, .223)
 
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Ikarus1 said:
take some pics of the barrel and extension. It certainly looks pretty far back for a squib but most of the damage to the bolt lugs is in the rear indicating it was at least partially in battery. What type of chamber did the barrel have? (nato, wylde, .223)
Click to expand...

Not sure my phone will get a good enough photo but I will try either tonight or in the morning. It was a S&W 5.56 version 1 but hey, on the positive, I get to upgrade now :rolleyes:
 
Looking at the upper from the rear, I notice that the majority of all the damage is at the 3 o'clock position:

1) The barrel extension appears to have a crack at 3 o'clock
2) The upper is broken at 3 o'clock (the portion below the ejection port)
3) The extractor which has significant damage is at 3 o'clock

This would seem to indicate that the barrel extension failed which in turn caused the damage to the receiver and bolt extractor. If that's what happened, then the next question would be why it failed,....... manufacturing defect, cartridge was loaded too hot...... squib......

I'm kind of puzzled why the bottom of the carrier is completely gone.
 
Here is Accurate’s 2200 data. But my other books (Hornady, Lyman, Nosler, etc) don’t list 2200....it’s all 2230, 2460, etc.

GE7xeSL.jpg

lxXOeyn.jpg
 
I think there was a high primer that was 'sensitized' by the first pass through the cycle and a case not resized properly so the round wouldn't chamber. Dropping the BCG on the round in the chamber rather than feeding it via the magazine is like hitting the case head with a mallet. If the round wasn't going to chamber and the primer was slightly proud then you could have an out of battery detonation. Were you using CCI 41 or Winchester SRP? They have harder cups.

'Always feed from a magazine' as this slows the action and presents the case head properly.

Just my take.
 
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