Cops shoot homeowner at wrong house

ChickenHawk said:
Because she didn't know they were cops.
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I wouldn’t care if they’re cops or not. You shoot my spouse and I’m going to make my life’s mission sending you straight to hell, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
 
There is so much fail in this one, it is hard to sort it out. Mistakes made on both sides, but one was at his home exactly where he was supposed to be and the others, while genuinely fearing for their lives, were at the wrong house and have qualified immunity. I wonder if the widow will be successful in a civil case against the city, given the cops were at the wrong address.

Sucks all the way around.
 
ChickenHawk said:
His job isn't to be tactical.
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When you're walking around ready to use lethal force, your job is to be tactical. If you don't want to know how to fight smart, then you had better be able to fight better than your opponent. In this guys case, he was not.
 
Jayne said:
When you're walking around ready to use lethal force, your job is to be tactical. If you don't want to know how to fight smart, then you had better be able to fight better than your opponent. In this guys case, he was not.
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There is only one party that was where they shouldn't be, and they screwed the pooch on the one thing that could have avoided this. If you want to blame the victim have at it.
 
ChickenHawk said:
There is only one party that was where they shouldn't be, and they screwed the pooch on the one thing that could have avoided this. If you want to blame the victim have at it.
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I'm not blaming the victim. What I'm saying is, let's pretend that it wasn't the cops outside but pick your favorite gang. There are an unknown number of armed bad guys outside, and they want in for whatever reason. Is the best move to run at them blindly? Or is there a better choice? If the guy was unarmed, would he have made the same choice? Was his lack of tactics combined with bravado that made him think that was the best action?

I'm asserting that if he had any sort of tactical training this wouldn't have happened. Yes, the cops were in the wrong place. yes, they had no reason to be where they were. Being 100% wrong isn't going to stop the guy from being dead, but better tactics to deal with the unknown just might have prevented everything. That, or brought the firefight inside where he dies anyway.

Being morally correct but dead is still dead.
 
Glad to see the outrage and discussion here. I've always thought that these tragedies are actually one of the rare points where the freedom and civil rights minded right and left folks could make a strategic alliance to pressure some politicians and get them to hold cops responsible in instances like this. Or pass legislation that ends no-knock raids here in NC (I know this instance wasn't a no-knock raid but some of the recent ones were).

MSNBC and Fox would have you believe that working together like that couldn't happen but literally I talked about this case with all of my coworkers (I work with a lot of liberals and only some conservatives and libertarians) and all of them were equally outraged. Hell, we just got the pistol purchase permits removed through a similar alliance.

Then again maybe it's the whiskey talking...
 
Jayne said:
I'm not blaming the victim. What I'm saying is, let's pretend that it wasn't the cops outside but pick your favorite gang. There are an unknown number of armed bad guys outside, and they want in for whatever reason. Is the best move to run at them blindly? Or is there a better choice? If the guy was unarmed, would he have made the same choice? Was his lack of tactics combined with bravado that made him think that was the best action?

I'm asserting that if he had any sort of tactical training this wouldn't have happened. Yes, the cops were in the wrong place. yes, they had no reason to be where they were. Being 100% wrong isn't going to stop the guy from being dead, but better tactics to deal with the unknown just might have prevented everything. That, or brought the firefight inside where he dies anyway.

Being morally correct but dead is still dead.
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Yep. So much went wrong here on both sides. One different decision on either side would have saved a life. It is a very sad situation.
 
ChickenHawk said:
It does make me wonder what the average reaction would be if you're already holding a gun at your own door and then get blinded while someone is yelling for you to put your hands up.

How many would point a gun versus ducking back inside? Would the cops have shot as well if he ducked back inside since he was being told to put his hands up? Could the motion with the gun have been him raising it in a sign of surrender? There are a lot of what ifs that would never be asked if the cops didn't screw up something so simple.
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there was another case where exactly that happened. cop on the other side of the door fatally shot him in the back because he saw then gun as the dude tried to put it down and get on the ground.
 
Jayne said:
When you're walking around ready to use lethal force, your job is to be tactical. If you don't want to know how to fight smart, then you had better be able to fight better than your opponent. In this guys case, he was not.
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A gun is a magical talisman that imbues it’s owner with feelings of strength and invincibility. As with most things, feelings are rarely very effective.
 
ChickenHawk said:
And I guess I'll never even go to the door. I'll wait upstairs and wait for them to break the door in if someone is outside yelling police. Then I'll just have people saying they were justified shooting me because I didn't answer the door and comply with demands.
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it certainly makes me want to have a nightly routine of ensuring all curtains are closed and i know where to point a rifle at pelvis level through the door...
 
cubrock said:
Yep. So much went wrong here on both sides. One different decision on either side would have saved a life. It is a very sad situation.
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And since we can't control the actions of the bad guys, we need to be sure that our actions are as good as they can be to make up for the mistakes of others.
 
Jayne said:
And since we can't control the actions of the bad guys, we need to be sure that our actions are as good as they can be to make up for the mistakes of others.
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Absolutely.
 
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