Cure a flinch?

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I have recoil anticipation!

I tend to "push" the muzzle downwards during live fire. no issue during dry fire (admittedly I don't do as much as I should).

I can tend to easily put shots on target (4" diameter dots) out to 10-12 yards. at 20-25 yds my groups expand to 10-15" or so.

i know I'm doing to to reduce muzzle flip and get the sights back on target faster, but know that my timing can be off and sometimes I'll pull the sh*t out of one low left.

when I loosen my grip to avoid this I get a ton of muzzle flip and take long time to get the sights back on target.

any tips?

I'm going to try to dry fire a few hundred times a night for starters.

I'm "lucky" that my grip prevents slide lockout on my VP9 giving me the chance to be "surprised"
 
It took my wife about three rounds with a Crimson Trace to cure that exact problem. She could watch the dot drop as she pulled the trigger. It trained her to just use her trigger finger.

Having someone load a magazine and putting a couple dummy rounds in is another method that works, but you need a friend with you.
 
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vp9c said:
I have recoil anticipation!

I tend to "push" the muzzle downwards during live fire. no issue during dry fire (admittedly I don't do as much as I should).

I can tend to easily put shots on target (4" diameter dots) out to 10-12 yards. at 20-25 yds my groups expand to 10-15" or so.

i know I'm doing to to reduce muzzle flip and get the sights back on target faster, but know that my timing can be off and sometimes I'll pull the sh*t out of one low left.

when I loosen my grip to avoid this I get a ton of muzzle flip and take long time to get the sights back on target.

any tips?

I'm going to try to dry fire a few hundred times a night for starters.

I'm "lucky" that my grip prevents slide lockout on my VP9 giving me the chance to be "surprised"
Click to expand...

You know why I like my VP9?? For some reason I'm a lot more accurate with it than any 9mm pistol I ever had. Sounds like your shooting pretty good to me
 
What you want is to control the bang, so you deliberately make the gun go bang exactly when you want it to by jerking the trigger at the last second. This isn’t a physical thing, it’s a mental one. The key to overcoming this is simply mind control and practice. The bang must be a surprise in order to be accurate. Go to the range and squeeze the trigger slowly and steadily until it goes bang and scares you. Do it over and over, slowly and steadily. Soon you’ll be able to do it faster and steadier(?).
 
One thing that most overlook is noise control. Use ear plugs, over ear protectors and anything else you can find to lower the blast effects. Another is to practice dry firing to learn how to keep a constant ever increasing pressure on the trigger. Some say they can squeeze the trigger without knowing it goes off, I never could, rather I train myself to apply pressure while holding the firearm on or at the target. As for flinching, just remember the gun kicks no matter what so put that out of your mind and concentrate on the target. With practice the flinching will go away but it takes hitting the target(positive reinforcement) to completely rid yourself of the nuisance, good luck.
 
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Dry fire with a “surprise “ break. Slow and steady rearward pull. 1000’s like that build some muscle memory.


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Dale Flinchum said:
One thing that most overlook is noise control. Use ear plugs, over ear protectors and anything else you can find to lower the blast effects. Another is to practice dry firing to learn how to keep a constant ever increasing pressure on the trigger. Some say they can squeeze the trigger without knowing it goes off, I never could, rather I train myself to apply pressure while holding the firearm on or at the target. As for flinching, just remember the gun kicks no matter what so put that out of your mind and concentrate on the target. With practice the flinching will go away but it takes hitting the target(positive reinforcement) to completely rid yourself of the nuisance, good luck.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I'm trusting someone with "flinch" in their name!!! lol

I'm actually anticipating, not reacting. it's more to keep the sights on target for faster follow ups. watching videos of some studs where they "ride" the gun and have virtually no muzzle flip!
 
vp9c said:
I'm not sure if I'm trusting someone with "flinch" in their name!!! lol

I'm actually anticipating, not reacting. it's more to keep the sights on target for faster follow ups. watching videos of some studs where they "ride" the gun and have virtually no muzzle flip!
Click to expand...

The name is like being named Sue, one has to work at overcoming it.

As for anticipation, stop thinking about fast follow ups and try hitting the target, speed comes with the knowledge you gain by hitting the target. Once you learn how to hit it's just doing that same thing it took to hit the target at a faster rate. Never let yourself get caught up in throwing away your trigger skills.
 
This is why I always warm up with the .22s first. Whether s/a revolvers, semi auto pistols or long guns, I always start out with .22s to work on fundamentals & somewhat get my shit back together 'fore I start flinging the noisy & expensive ammo downrange
 
Are you pulling back with your support hand, thus preloading your trigger hand/arm/shoulder?
Have you tried shooting your targets with a cadence timing?
Grab a 22 pistol run some slow drills.
The VP9 is a sweet pistol, you'll draw your groups in.
 
Dry fire as much as you can.
Practice with 22s helps.
Squeeze the trigger instead of jerking it, although squeeze it quickly and smoothly. If you are anticipating though, this isn't the problem.
Do not loosen grip. Increase it. Control the muzzle after the shot, not before!

Shoot lighter loads in a heavier gun. If you reload and are shooting 9, shoot in a full size metal framed gun if you can, with light loads. Similar to using 22 but more like centerfire and can control recoil/sights better for practice.

Most important test/technique: Load your mags ahead of time or without looking or have someone else do it and mix in some snap caps. When you pull the trigger and it goes click and the muzzle moves, you know.

I have had periods doing the exact same thing. It is a hard habit to break and an easy one to restart if not vigilant.
 
Take a friend, family member or loved one to the range,step away from the firing line or turn your back, let them prepare the firearm for you some.times racking a live round into the chamber some times leaving a cold chamber, after flinching on a empty chamber a few time it'll break you of your habit, someone did this for me when I was first learning to shoot and its one of the lessons that stuck
 
Howland said:
It took my wife about three rounds with a Crimson Trace to cure that exact problem. She could watch the dot drop as she pulled the trigger. It trained her to just use her trigger finger.

Having someone load a magazine and putting a couple dummy rounds in is another method that works, but you need a friend with you.
Click to expand...
You can also do this yourself if the dummy rounds feel the same as the real ones. Snap caps typically do not, but I made myself some by loading cases with spent primers with a bullet but no powder. I marked them very well so visually they could not be mistaken for normal rounds, but when mixed in with a handful of others they feel the same so I can load mags myself without looking and have no idea where the duds are.
 
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Two comments that I really agree with:
-double up on ear protection
-Grip the gun harder with the support hand

Try using no/hardly any right hand grip at all. Just concentrate on using your left hand to control the gun, point left thumb at target and do not let it move up or down. Run trigger with trigger hand relaxed. You should be able to slap the trigger pretty hard without disturbing sight picture. I find it's harder to flinch without both hands being sympathetic to each other. I feel like a lot of flinching is coming from the strong hand in most cases.

Also, try using cardboard targets, so that you can not see your hits until you walk up range. By not seeing hits, you are forced to "call your shots" which tends to make you follow through on the sights better before moving the gun to next target. You never want to "wait for hits" or "see where your hits are going". Waiting to see the hit is all part of that anticipation.

Just some suggestions/opinions. I fight with this as well.
 
I cured it by doing exactly what all the latest trainers tell you not to do: an exaggerated surprise trigger break, pin, reset, repeat.
No, that's not a good long term training habit for trigger control but it was useful to break a bad habit.
Also adjusting my grip helped a lot - I do it like this:
 
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The Springfield video is spot on, it's all about the moment you break the trigger. If you break the trigger the same everytime while holding the gun the same everytime you will in time hit the same place everytime. What the video doesn't hit on is the fact that you are training your subconcious to repeat the action and with good practice you will increase accuracy as well as speed. It only takes about 100,000 rounds to see the difference:).
 
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So I've only 99,950 to go. :confused:
 
IMO, I am finding trigger pull is over rated. "Riding the reset", "pinning", surprise break, etc.

You need to be able to hold the gun tight and not flinch when running the trigger hard/slapping it, which is what happens as soon as timer goes off.
Leatham hits on that in his video.

If you are standing there shooting groups you have all day to do whatever.

But in practical shooting, you don't have time for any of that. With .25 splits, you have 1/4 second to: transition gun, acquire sight picture, prep trigger, and break shot. Basically everyone is just yanking/slapping the trigger. Even Miculek does this.

It's the left hand that is doing the important work. At least, that is what I am finding. Just my opinion.
 
I LOVE the Leatham video! I've watched it before but it is great to remember and ingrain the muscle memory. It seems like you hear one tip and forget the others...

I tried the Vogel Grip and could not get used to it. I am not committed enough to make that change...My grip style is similar to Leatham's or what Miculek teaches in his videos.
 
Really good ear protection helps a lot with flinching. Most of the time, when I flinch, is not because of felt recoil, but the noise of the blast. I never shoot at indoor ranges for this reason. Doubling up on ear protection can really reduce the blast and will help you tame the flinch.

Another thing that helps is to shoot .22's more often. If you don't have one, get yourself a .22 pistol, and shoot it some at the start of every range day. Focus on grip, trigger pull, breathing, and follow through. Train yourself with the .22 and it will get easier with the full size handgun.
 
Dry firing with the penny on top of the pistol helps control but if you flinch from the noise or anticipation but remain consistent then alter your aiming habits. If you know you are always shooting 4 inches low then aim for the throat area on a man size silhouette target.
 
probably the "worst" part of it is that my timing is pretty damn good...most of the time. So much so, that makes it barely noticeable out to 10 yards where I can punch ragged holes that are a few inches in diameter, except for 2-3 shots out every 50 rounds...

I also think that I need to spend more of my live fire time out at further distances. Obviously muzzle deviation is exaggerated at distance and I just need to buck up and practice at those distances until I can do the same.

I've been moving the target back a yard or so every 10 rounds. Unfortunately, I get discouraged as the groups get larger and instead of trying harder, I move the target back closer....
 
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vp9c said:
probably the "worst" part of it is that my timing is pretty damn good...most of the time. So much so, that makes it barely noticeable out to 10 yards where I can punch ragged holes that are a few inches in diameter, except for 2-3 shots out every 50 rounds...

I also think that I need to spend more of my live fire time out at further distances. Obviously muzzle deviation is exaggerated at distance and I just need to buck up and practice at those distances until I can do the same.

I've been moving the target back a yard or so every 10 rounds. Unfortunately, I get discouraged as the groups get larger and instead of trying harder, I move the target back closer....
Click to expand...

This is good. Move them WAAAAY out.

Practice on a plate rack at 50yards. These further shots force good technique.

Don't practice what you are good at. Practice what you are bad at!
 
If you can set up multiple targets it's very useful to have them at different distances and practice transitions between near and far targets.
 
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