Dallas officer goes home to wrong apartment, kills man inside

What a hard road ahead for them and their families.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/amber-guyger/
Let this be a reminder-
"On the Internet, she appears to have shown an interest in fitness, sometimes commenting on fitness stories or websites."
If you find yourself in a legal quandary and think the 'authorities' have no interest in what you've said over the years on the internet, think again.
 
Ok, so I’ll play the devils advocate:

Homegirl is tired after a long shift. Walks up to the wrong door, wiggles the handle. Dude burst open the door yelling at her. Possibly armed because hey, if someone was banging on my door in the middle of the night I know I would be. So Office Tiredpants sees an armed dude in what she >thinks< is her apartment and she blasts him...

No...still her fault for being in the wrong place...

Unless she says “Dude! Sorry wrong house!” And Mr. Livingintherighthouse guy keeps screaming at her and threatening her. So it goes from “I’m sorry, I will leave” and he elevates it to her having to defend herself.

Then, maybe she wasn’t in the wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It's not an attempt at mind reading. Your statement: implies that she was treated differently at the scene of a crime by those meant to be impartial in their enforcement of the law, based solely on her common profession with those sent to investigate the crime. Implicit in the staemstat is she recievre differential treatment, an alternate consideration in spite of the law that someone who is not "a cop" would never recirec.

And you're ok with it.

If that's not what you meant, what does your statement mean?

None of that has anything to do with equal treatment under the law. That happens after the arrest. I don’t know enough details to have an opinion on when she should have become a suspect or been placed under arrrest. But I would expect that arrest to be handled deliberately and with a lot of CYA by all parties involved. And no, I don’t think that’s a bad thing or damaging in any way to our republic, or indicitave of any systemic pattern of injustices... it’s just human nature.

ETA: Thinking about this in terms of fairness is just not thinking at all. Fairness is how kids divide up cookies. Adults do things differently, or at least they should.
 
Last edited:
Ok, so I’ll play the devils advocate:

Homegirl is tired after a long shift. Walks up to the wrong door, wiggles the handle. Dude burst open the door yelling at her. Possibly armed because hey, if someone was banging on my door in the middle of the night I know I would be. So Office Tiredpants sees an armed dude in what she >thinks< is her apartment and she blasts him...

No...still her fault for being in the wrong place...

Unless she says “Dude! Sorry wrong house!” And Mr. Livingintherighthouse guy keeps screaming at her and threatening her. So it goes from “I’m sorry, I will leave” and he elevates it to her having to defend herself.

Then, maybe she wasn’t in the wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmmm, in the nobody reported any yelling from either the officer or the deceased. From all accounts, the deceased did not seem to be the aggressive type.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/amber-guyger/
 
I wonder what the odds are that if I shot someone under the same situation, I would be walking around the halls, not in cuffs, talking on my phone...

I still think there is a chance that this is a honest fuck up and a planned kill. But she still should be treated the same as anyone else. If the normal procedure is to cuff the shooter, take them to jail to question and keep them there till it is sorted out, then that is what should of happen here. At this point, I don't think there is a way the dept. can not look like they gave special treatment even if they bury her under the jail.
 
I think it's going to come down to training. Like that other thread about out shooting your brain. Under stress, we will revert to our training, good or bad. She probably rehearsed a similar contact distance scenario time and time again that ended in gunfire. She didn't have time or ability to think about it. She's just acted and it was probably over before her brain engaged and realized what was going on. Many people think that they will be clear headed and be able to make decisions under stress. It's not that easy.

ETA: She allowed herself to be put in that scenario, so she's ultimately still responsible.
 
Last edited:
I think it's going to come down to training. Like that other thread about out shooting your brain. Under stress, we will revert to our training, good or bad. She probably rehearsed a similar contact distance scenario time and time again that ended in gunfire. She didn't have time or ability to think about it. She's just acted and it was probably over before her brain engaged and realized what was going on. Many people think that they will be clear headed and be able to make decisions under stress. It's not that easy.
In the end her training is what will tank any defense she may be able to make.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
She's darn near zero flight risk. The charges will likely be fought tooth and nail if they have a police union there. And the trial will certainly be messy. Personally, I'd rather they take their time and get it right the first time. And yes, random unknown citizen would likely be sitting in jail already. But this case will also not play out like random citizen.

Hell, a guy I know is sitting in jail on a murder charge right now claiming self defense. And his claim is way more believable than hers. And if he's telling the truth, most of us here would have done similar.
 
It will be two to three years before the trial. It better be or the local DA will be looking at harsh sentencing to keep the riots away.
 
Last edited:
If she was off duty, why is the union involved? She was also committing a crime at the time of the shooting, why is the inion going to defend her?
 
I heard in the radio, going home tonight. Dallas TX PD are a union shop.

Most likely because she had not made it "home" and was fatigued from a 12 hour shift plus overtime. Honestly if a union thinks they can use a situation to exploit an employer than "A Union gonna Union". Never let a tragedy go to waste and all.
 
Criminal is not going to be as crazy as the civil case. The talk of fatigue and such might make it a little rough for the city of Dallas and DPD the settlement. I can see a good civil lawyer playing up the department’s part in working LEOs to long. I know that industry studies have shown production starts to slip after 8 hours ... after 10 it really take a drop ... and at 12 hours it nose dives. Dallas and the DPD on the civil side will pay thru the nose.
 
One of the articles said she had come off from 15 hours after having to work overtime.

Heck, I almost feel sorry for her. Must be tough killing someone in their own home after a long hard day of wondering if you'll make it back to the safety of your own home.
 
Heck, I almost feel sorry for her. Must be tough killing someone in their own home after a long hard day of wondering if you'll make it back to the safety of your own home.
You know, there were people discussing how long she had been at work and I answered their question. There wasn't no judgement or defense in my statement and a snarky response from you wasn't warranted.

If you want to find fault with someone look in the mirror.
 
I put 15.5 hours in a couple weeks ago, the last 3 of that behind the wheel of a 60,000 lb truck. It takes about everything you have to stay on task. It does not excuse it, but if it's true the city is going to have some problems explaining that. And if something had happened with me you can bet that would have been a headline and the company would have paid dearly for having me out that long. Stuff happens at work, but that's a long time to be working.
 
Per the affidavit

David Armstrong of the Texas Rangers wrote in an arrest affidavit obtained by Fox News on Monday that Officer Amber Guyger allegedly shot Botham Jean after he ignored her “verbal commands.”

Guyger just had ended a 15-hour shift Thursday when she returned in uniform to the South Side Flats apartment complex. She parked on the fourth floor, instead of the third, where she lived, according to the affidavit filed for the officer’s arrest warrant, possibly suggesting that she was confused or disoriented.


When she put her key in the apartment door that was unlocked and slightly ajar, it opened. Inside, the lights were off. Then she saw a figure in the darkness, the affidavit said.

The officer concluded that her apartment was being burglarized and gave verbal commands to the figure, who allegedly ignored them. She then drew her weapon and fired twice, the affidavit said.

When she turned on the lights, she realized she was in the wrong unit, according to the affidavit, which appeared to be based almost entirely upon the officer’s account.

She admits to criminal trespassing, shooting at an unidentified target, in a dark apartment. Her first action were criminal, then she kills a man while in committing the crime. I wonder if they are going to try and use, she was an LEO and the man should have just submitted to her, and then have sorted it out later?
 
Several articles are saying in her statement to the Texas Rangers, she mentioned "going back out into the hallway to give 911 the address."

Why would she need to go get the apartment number if she "thought she was in her apartment?"

Lastly, while a 15 hour day is long, it's not so long that a person becomes unable to function. Every 5 weeks or so I work 15s for a week straight. I know guys that do it for months on end during a refueling outage. Fatigue can be a factor, but in this case it looks like grasping at straws.

It's being peddled like it's some sort of excuse, that the PD worked her so hard she killed someone.

That's complete BS.
 
Criminal is not going to be as crazy as the civil case. The talk of fatigue and such might make it a little rough for the city of Dallas and DPD the settlement. I can see a good civil lawyer playing up the department’s part in working LEOs to long. I know that industry studies have shown production starts to slip after 8 hours ... after 10 it really take a drop ... and at 12 hours it nose dives. Dallas and the DPD on the civil side will pay thru the nose.

I don't see a criminal trial happening. But I feel you are correct on the civil trial. Barnum and Bailey couldn't put on a better show.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I am not buying the "15 hours" being a cause for this level of confusion. It is a long day, but I know a good number of people who put in that, plus some, who have never been too tired to find their homes, much less go shooting people accidentally because of it. A dozen or so firefighter and EMT friends come to mind.
 
Several articles are saying in her statement to the Texas Rangers, she mentioned "going back out into the hallway to give 911 the address."

Why would she need to go get the apartment number if she "thought she was in her apartment?"


That's complete BS.
If you read the post above yours you would see that she thought it was her apartment until she turned on the light. When she saw it wasn't hers she then would then need to figure out the apartment number. Not that complicated.

Now you can go back to saying I'm defending her just because I answered your question.
 
Several articles are saying in her statement to the Texas Rangers, she mentioned "going back out into the hallway to give 911 the address."

Why would she need to go get the apartment number if she "thought she was in her apartment?"

Lastly, while a 15 hour day is long, it's not so long that a person becomes unable to function. Every 5 weeks or so I work 15s for a week straight. I know guys that do it for months on end during a refueling outage. Fatigue can be a factor, but in this case it looks like grasping at straws.

It's being peddled like it's some sort of excuse, that the PD worked her so hard she killed someone.

That's complete BS.

"The officer concluded that her apartment was being burglarized and gave verbal commands to the figure, who allegedly ignored them. She then drew her weapon and fired twice, the affidavit said.

When she turned on the lights, she realized she was in the wrong unit, according to the affidavit, which appeared to be based almost entirely upon the officer’s account."
 
I don't see a criminal trial happening. But I feel you are correct on the civil trial. Barnum and Bailey couldn't put on a better show.

Why no criminal trial?

I don’t see a DA making a plea on a headlining case l8ke this ... this is a career builder for someone politically driven. This case is going to be a tightrope walk ... negligent homicide to manslaughter to maybe murder 2 ... the family and many others what her fried so just how far can he push.

I almost expect the LEO’s attorney to look to drop from manslaughter to a form of negligent homicide. A dramatic criminal defense attorney pointing out “this and that” trying to get his client off or a lesser charge would increase business for him. Her attorney is likely going to play the 15 hour shift with the high demand CRT thing to where exhaustion and such played a part ... even throwing the DPD into it ... as a mitigating factor for her “negligent” act.

To me this case is begging to be taken to a jury on both sides ... I just wouldn’t want to be around if the jury can’t reach a verdict which only would take one juror.
 
Why no criminal trial?

I don’t see a DA making a plea on a headlining case l8ke this ... this is a career builder for someone politically driven. This case is going to be a tightrope walk ... negligent homicide to manslaughter to maybe murder 2 ... the family and many others what her fried so just how far can he push.

I almost expect the LEO’s attorney to look to drop from manslaughter to a form of negligent homicide. A dramatic criminal defense attorney pointing out “this and that” trying to get his client off or a lesser charge would increase business for him. Her attorney is likely going to play the 15 hour shift with the high demand CRT thing to where exhaustion and such played a part ... even throwing the DPD into it ... as a mitigating factor for her “negligent” act.

To me this case is begging to be taken to a jury on both sides ... I just wouldn’t want to be around if the jury can’t reach a verdict which only would take one juror.

I think the facts of the case lead to a guilty plea at some point. This is not as big a case as most are making it out to be criminally.
 
You know, there were people discussing how long she had been at work and I answered their question. There wasn't no judgement or defense in my statement and a snarky response from you wasn't warranted.

If you want to find fault with someone look in the mirror.

An innocent person is dead at the hands of someone who likely won't be charged under the same standards as anyone else who doesn't have a government issued badge and uniform and the backing of a police union. Coming from someone who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, I would like to think I can be afforded a little snark in the face of a blatant injustice.
 
An innocent person is dead at the hands of someone who likely won't be charged under the same standards as anyone else who doesn't have a government issued badge and uniform and the backing of a police union. Coming from someone who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, I would like to think I can be afforded a little snark in the face of a blatant injustice.
What's that got to do with me?
 
Back
Top Bottom