Daniel Defense lays off employees

DD just hasn't been responsive to the market. People love (LOVE) their RIS II rails, but they won't make them for non-military purchase; people hate the goofy stocks; they are often overgassed; and the prices haven't dipped to reflect the glut in the market.

KAC is pricey but they have military contracts and are more diversified; if people can't afford their ARs, their bottom line doesn't take much of a hit.

Just about every other manufacturer has listened to the market, dropped prices, made what consumers want.
 
So I wonder if these are designers and engineers or assembly line workers? If the latter, sucks losing a job, but the firearms industry ain't hiring, I'm sure some other industry needs unskilled labor the non compete isn't doing anything. If the former, the schooling should be applicable to nearly anything mechanical, resume might be a little weak is all.

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concepthomes1 said:
Why did everyone keep reiterating that the RIS II rails weren't available for sale as a standalone item?

https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/ris-ii.html


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Sure, they will (sell them). When they are in stock. They have made much to-do about those rails being for government purchase first so it seems like they sell out pretty quick. Everyone and their brother wants them, they should be churning them out like Ford and his Model A's.

I hold the same criticism for KAC and their close-hold on rails and sights and all.
 
concepthomes1 said:
That's what I said when I saw that.

And here I thought quad rails were on the decline in favor of the slimmer, rounded rails.
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And that's a huge reason they are having problems. They are behind the curve.

In 2016 they did $73 million in sales with a gross profit of 35%. They are certainly doing something wrong.
 
drypowder said:
LMAO @ $440 for a quad rail in 2017.
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I'll never go back to a quad rail. Not even a consideration, especially at new truck payment prices.
I think I could do better with Lego's, and they'd feel the same.
Admittedly though, I've never been attracted to bolting a bunch of weight on my rifle anyway so quads never really wooed me.
 
The DD rifles I have had in my hands were nice quality rifles. I like their products.

I just never felt it was any better than what I can build for less than 800$. The days of $2000 cork sniffer forged milspec AR's are long gone I am afraid.
 
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drypowder said:
Actually I would guess a lot of people who held off hoping for legalization will now go ahead with Form 4's.

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I truly hope so, But from my experience alot of the folks I know who were going to buy their 1st can if it went thru, will abandon the idea out of pure lazyness at this point. If they can't just walk into a store and buy it they just wont go thru the trouble or wait for the reward.
 
Partsfreak said:
I truly hope so, But from my experience alot of the folks I know who were going to buy their 1st can if it went thru, will abandon the idea out of pure lazyness at this point. If they can't just walk into a store and buy it they just wont go thru the trouble or wait for the reward.
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That's not the group I was referring to. For sure, there are lots of people who will only buy a suppressor if it's not part of NFA. But they haven't affected suppressor sales because they were never part of the customer base under the current NFA regime.

But there are people who are willing to go the NFA route, but held off in hopes of legislation - that did affect sales. Now that legislation is out of the picture, a lot of that pushed-back demand should come through.
 
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drypowder said:
Actually I would guess a lot of people who held off hoping for legalization will now go ahead with Form 4's.

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Which is a good idea. Because if the SHARE or HPA pass, the manufacturers won't be able to meet demand. Probably end up waiting longer than you would for a Form 4.
 
drypowder said:
That's not the group I was referring to. For sure, there are lots of people who will only buy a suppressor if it's not part of NFA. But they haven't affected suppressor sales because they were never part of the customer base under the current NFA regime.

But there are people who are willing to go the NFA route, but held off in hopes of legislation - that did affect sales. Now that legislation is out of the picture, a lot of that pushed-back demand should come through.
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I seem to fall into that camp. I waited some to see if "easy" happened. Now that it hasn't...and in particularly, because of WHY and HOW it happened...well, TRUST, here I come (because I want my wife to have access and not have to worry about silly/stupid law crap...and she will want access anyway :D ).
 
NKD said:
The DD rifles I have had in my hands were nice quality rifles. I like their products.

I just never felt it was any better than what I can build for less than 800$. The days of $2000 cork sniffer forged milspec AR's are long gone I am afraid.
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I don't think they are gone, but definitely for a niche crowd. KAC and LMT ain't going anywhere.

I think the layoffs are because of two things: 1) HRC didn't win, so there hasn't been a rush on ARs. I wonder if they staffed up and beefed up production in anticipation of a HRC win. 2) Colt and BCM, two huge competitors, dropped their prices.

DDs are great rifles, but their management didn't listen to what the market wanted or have situational awareness of what was going on with politics and competitors.
 
Chuckman said:
I don't think they are gone, but definitely for a niche crowd. KAC and LMT ain't going anywhere.

I think the layoffs are because of two things: 1) HRC didn't win, so there hasn't been a rush on ARs. I wonder if they staffed up and beefed up production in anticipation of a HRC win. 2) Colt and BCM, two huge competitors, dropped their prices.

DDs are great rifles, but their management didn't listen to what the market wanted or have situational awareness of what was going on with politics and competitors.
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Colt and BCM lowered their prices for the same reason DD is laying off employees, lol.

They priced themselves out of a market. They don't provide anything that can't be had cheaper.
 
NKD said:
Colt and BCM lowered their prices for the same reason DD is laying off employees, lol.
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Exactly. Colt, BCM, DD, and some of the other higher tier names can charge a premium over the lower tier brands, but there is a limit to that premium. And the bottom has fallen out of AR pricing with all the competition, so the premium was too large for the market to bear. Colt and BCM recognized this and responded by lowering prices so they got a premium that enough buyers would accept. DD assumed there were enough cork sniffer AR buyers to go around for all the makers who kept prices very high (some of whom benefit from selling to governments, which tend to be much less price sensitive, in addition to being susceptible to bribes/lobbying); turns out they were wrong.
 
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NKD said:
Colt and BCM lowered their prices for the same reason DD is laying off employees, lol.

They priced themselves out of a market. They don't provide anything that can't be had cheaper.
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That's right. Colt, BCM saw the light and could read the market. It's a law of economics: if the market doesn't come to you, you go to the market. Remember when the 6920 was selling for $1,500?? Now you can get two for that price. And people are.
 
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bigfutz said:
Which is a good idea. Because if the SHARE or HPA pass, the manufacturers won't be able to meet demand. Probably end up waiting longer than you would for a Form 4.
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Nah. Suppressors are rocket science. A couple of months is plenty to tool up for way more supply than we could possibly ever need.
 
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