Defending yourself

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Millie, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,151
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    Location:
    NC
    This is for non military, non law enforcement experience people. But anybody can weigh in, I'm always interested in information!
    Have any "civilians" here had to actually use their weapon in a self defense situation? Or to defend someone else?
    I had to show a person my gun one time, after being followed in my car. Long story, but the guy made gestures and followed me, coming at my car after we stopped. I got out and showed him my teeny gun, and he went away!
    I was young and stupid and should never have gotten out of the car maybe....no cell phones in those days, but anyway. I did, but wouldn't now!
     
    TripleO7 and RetiredUSNChief like this.
  2. JimB

    JimB Picking it up slowly. Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    3,526
    Likes Received:
    4,016
    Location:
    Waxhaw
    Never have, never showed. Even lived in Chicago for 7 or 8 years, and would sometimes keep a hand on a knife walking from Lasalle and Wacker up to Irving Park at the lake late at night, but was never in a position that prevented me from avoiding what appeared to be oncoming issues.

    We had mugging and robberies, but I don’t think it was as bad as it is today, and even today the real problems are south of Wacker and west of the river.
     
    RetiredUSNChief and Millie like this.
  3. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Charter Member Benefactor

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    15,456
    Likes Received:
    53,306
    Location:
    Charlotte
    RetiredUSNChief likes this.
  4. Jeppo

    Jeppo Very LARGE Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    6,945
    Likes Received:
    9,934
    Location:
    Davidson County, NC
    Next door neighbor recently had a guy follow her to the gate at her driveway. As she waited for the gate to open, the guy got out of his car and approached her window. By the time he arrived, she had her gun in her hand. This woman owned a jewelry store that suffered several armed robberies. Since the first one, she always carries.

    Problem solved, thank goodness for her.
     
  5. Jeppo

    Jeppo Very LARGE Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    6,945
    Likes Received:
    9,934
    Location:
    Davidson County, NC
    Yeah, right! :mad:

    A woman who did not want to give her name but identified herself as a friend of Coleman's said "that man didn't have to kill him like that and I understand he felt he was going to help that lady but he could have shot him in a defense tactic, like his waist."

    She said the homeowner "could have hit him in his leg if he was really trying to defend and diffuse a situation."
     
    RetiredUSNChief and BigWaylon like this.
  6. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,151
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    Location:
    NC
    What a terrible thing, to have a gun pointing at you and having to make such a decision! I hope I never have to...
     
    ronn47, Jeppo and BigWaylon like this.
  7. Jeppo

    Jeppo Very LARGE Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    6,945
    Likes Received:
    9,934
    Location:
    Davidson County, NC
    This reminds me of a very old story. When I was of "draft age", a colleague of mine was trying hard to qualify for CO (Conscientious Objector) status to avoid going to Vietnam. His position was that he would be unable to take a human life.

    During one of the interviews, he was asked, "If someone is threatening to shoot your mother or sister and you have a gun, what would you do". His answer was quite simple and very honest...

    "I don't know."

    The best we can hope for is to never be put in the position to find out.
     
    Toprudder, Millie and RetiredUSNChief like this.
  8. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Get over it, snowflake. Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,100
    Likes Received:
    14,343
    Location:
    SC to VA
    Way back when I was working my way through college, I was riding my bike home after work one night.

    Guy in a car tried to clip me when he passed. Then he pulled over and stopped.

    I stopped my bicycle under a street light, then unhooked the 6 feet of chain and padlock around my waist.

    He got out of his car with a tire iron and started walking towards me.

    I dropped my chain, unzipped my jacket, and pulled the jacket open to expose my 1911.

    He got back in his car and left.

    I got on my bike and took a different route home.
     
  9. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,151
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    Location:
    NC
    I'd like to think that if someone barged into my house while I'm in it, I'd be able to fire a gun to defend myself, but like your friend said, I don't know what I'd do. Probably some pee would come out, maybe some poo! Maybe a heart attack from fright? Unless you've been trained specifically to be in situations where you might have to shoot someone....who knows? I hope I'd be able to do what I needed to do to defend myself, but until the situation is there, I have no clue how I'd behave. I'm hoping I never have to find out.
     
    ronn47 likes this.
  10. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,151
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    Location:
    NC
    Scary!
     
    RetiredUSNChief likes this.
  11. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Sponsor Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    8,651
    Likes Received:
    11,821
    Location:
    Apex / W. Jefferson NC
    I had a close call call once, but was luckily able to avoid drawing. Only because I was aware of another car and person was I able to get a little distance in a parking lot and get between the front door and very large guy that tried to corner me. Street smarts or luck, who knows. Could have gun much worse for both of us.
     
  12. Butter

    Butter CEO of Sarcasm Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    3,128
    Likes Received:
    4,016
    Location:
    Kannapolis
  13. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    5,657
    Likes Received:
    7,900
    Location:
    Onboard the mothership
    The only time I actually drew in self defense was against the neighbors dig that came in my yard and got aggressive. Thankfully they noticed, called it and it went home.

    If you can find them, Massad Ayoob has a lot of good blogs on situational awareness situations where he was being targeted. This goes against some views that I’ve seen that say the gun only comes out right before it goes bang, but he says that if you wait till you see their weapon you will get to see what comes out if it. I don’t see anything wrong with preparing to use a weapon and just knowing you’re going to be a hard(er) target oftentimes will diffuse a situation. For the times it doesn’t, well if anyone is willing to press an attack knowing you’re armed they’re undoubtedly going to be bad business.
     
    Millie likes this.
  14. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,151
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    Location:
    NC
    I'll check those out, thanks. The time I showed a guy my gun, he went away, very fast. Lol.
    But I need to be more aware of my surrounding, I know, even though I'm not a phone person, always looking down at it!
    Going to do a search right now.
     
  15. Dirtydirtysouf

    Dirtydirtysouf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    620
    Location:
    Winston-Salem, NC
    I have never pulled my sidearm and fire it (hope I never do) but I have had to get my hand on the butt and tell the person to back up.....it was enough to get them moving the other direction
     
    Millie likes this.
  16. Button Pusher

    Button Pusher Well-Known Member Benefactor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,720
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Location:
    Raleigh
  17. bkv

    bkv Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    467
    Likes Received:
    298
    Location:
    Willow Spring, NC / Boone, NC
    Only once....years ago in the "Containment Area R..Y..." I was sitting at red light in downtown Cary. Some dude walked up to my car and opened the passenger door. (This was a few years before doors locked automatically and stuff like that.) I pulled the 686 out of it's little hidey spot and stuck it in his face and looked at him all serious like. . He backed away and closed the door. I drove away. I think I almost crapped my pants. Then I thought to myself...... "I bet his wife was picking him up in a blue Honda Accord like the one I was driving." :oops:
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
    Toprudder, GregB, Jeppo and 2 others like this.
  18. TripleO7

    TripleO7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2017
    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    The Special Hell That is Suburbia
    I carry in my backyard because of an unruly known biter that is quite capable of coming over the short fence my neighbors
    have. I'd hate to kill a dog, but I'm not taking an attack because I love dogs.

    The only time I was even close to drawing was in the parking lot of a well known LGS in Mooresville while sitting in the cab of my truck. Some knucklehead jumped out of the passenger seat of a car with a pistol in his hand, pointed in my general direction. I reached. Then he turned put it away and started talking to his buddy and went inside. If he had walked in my direction or made any aggressive move, I would have shot him. That's what I was preparing to do anyway. Damned fool nearly got shot because he wasn't observing safe gun handling. I'm glad it didn't play out because in retrospect I really don't think he had any ill intent, just being an oblivious dumbass. Plus, I really don't want to have to use my EDC, but I am willing if need be.

    I spent the first 33 years of my life in and around Chicago. If you appear to be a victim, you will become one. That goes for anywhere. I've walked through Cabrini Green, right up N. Larrabee at night. I lived in Lincoln Park at the time. Lincoln and Larrabee if you're familiar. The only time I was ever even approached by anyone other than panhandlers was at Clark and Webster at about 1 am. No gun, no knife on me. Just me and an unwillingness to project any fear. In other words, I wasn't going to be easy. Dude rethought his strategy and walked very quickly in the other direction. I'm not trying to come off like a badass, because I'm not. But I can be very intimidating if I need to be and I am willing to rock and roll if someone insists. It wouldn't be my first go round with a jackass.
     
  19. Coltdefender1911

    Coltdefender1911 On the couch Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    2,554
    Likes Received:
    2,162
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    I've never had to pull and point, thank God. I've had to clear leather before, thank the good Lord that resolved the situation.
     
    TripleO7, Millie and RetiredUSNChief like this.
  20. J R Green

    J R Green Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3,507
    Likes Received:
    4,195
    Location:
    Rutherford Co.
    Once you've had to walk the walk, as it were, the talk gets way less important.
     
  21. Cocked & Locked

    Cocked & Locked Super Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    1,482
    Location:
    Davidson County NC
    what J R Green said
     
    RetiredUSNChief likes this.
  22. Jeppo

    Jeppo Very LARGE Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    6,945
    Likes Received:
    9,934
    Location:
    Davidson County, NC
    Precisely why I've never owned a blue car. :D
     
    Toby_H and Millie like this.
  23. VA_GENTLEMAN

    VA_GENTLEMAN Gone Galt Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    1,414
    Location:
    Western NC, Virginian by Grace of God
    Twice. Pulled and Pointed. Once back in 1988 the other in 2009. Never had to fire, luckily.

    The 1st one would have been a definite kill if he would have continued his course of action. I am glad that he did not.

    The 2nd one was resolved peacefully and was never seen again in my neighborhood.
     
    Millie likes this.
  24. BlackGun

    BlackGun Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1,621
    Likes Received:
    1,907
    Location:
    Hickory
    Lived with four siblings and had to defend them all at a very young age. Grew up without a father who my mother would not let us see him so I became the protector. A guy came to our house in Longview, NC which is the poor outskirts of Hickory. At 2:00am he began beating on our door demanding to see my sister who had ran away that week. Nobody opened the door so he broke the window. I slung the door open and put a cocked single barrel shotgun in his face and told him he was dead if he didn’t leave fast as hell. I was 12 years old. He bolted saying he would see me out one day and kill me. He was in his mid twenties. I saw him out a couple weeks later and he came over talking about cutting my throat. A couple older friends (late teens) beat him unconscious. Never saw him again.
     
  25. nchunt101

    nchunt101 Member Charter Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    1,620
    Likes Received:
    3,587
    Location:
    location
    Once dealing with tresspassers on a hunting lease who thought it would be wise to threaten me while I was on the phone with the game warden. Not a fun situation but thankfully it ended as well as could be expected.
     
  26. Covfefe

    Covfefe Active Member Charter Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2017
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    308
    Location:
    Winston-Salem, NC
    I've had one incident- back in 2011, right after I got my NC CCW permit, I was driving and had a .38 Special revolver in my shoulder bag sitting on the passenger seat. I came upon a stoplight that turned yellow as I approached and I didn't think I could make it through before turning red, so I stopped. I guess the guy in the car behind me was planning to run it because he got out of the car and started walking towards me. This guy looked like a gangbanger with the big oversized coat and baggy pants and was trying to look tough. I didn't know his intentions, but I didn't think they were good, so I reached over to my bag and put my hand on the butt of the gun in my bag- just in case there was trouble. He looked at me, then looked at my hand and saw what I had, and turned around and went back to his car without saying anything to me. I guess he didn't think it was worth it.
     
    Button Pusher likes this.
  27. Ferrisfan

    Ferrisfan Got here as soon as I could Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    958
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Back before I knew what I was doing or understood the laws (because the internet was new to me), I had a road rage/gang initiation incident where I chose to show. I was driving back to Chapel Hill from the range in Liberty. Very few cars on the road and someone comes up behind me and starts tailgating. I slow down to let them pass and they slow down too. I slow waaaay down (knew better than to pull over) and they finally pass but the passenger points a gun at me as they are pulling alongside. I slam on the brakes and pull over while they pull over about 50 yards ahead of me. I get out, pull my gun case out of the back seat and let them see me pull my pistol out of the case.

    They chose to drive away. I waited a while, did a U-turn, and went back to another intersection where I knew I could take a different way home.

    That is the point where I became a serious gun owner and started looking into the laws around concealed carry. Any other day (at that time), I would not have had a pistol with me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
    Toprudder, Button Pusher and Millie like this.
  28. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,151
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    Location:
    NC
    People are just nuts out there, aren't they? It's scary!
     
  29. Chuckman

    Chuckman Senior Member Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    4,085
    Likes Received:
    5,806
    Location:
    North Durham
    "Showed" twice, never used.
     
    Millie likes this.
  30. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,151
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    Location:
    NC
    I showed my .25 to a guy and he left.....actually surprised he could even see it, since he was about 15 feet away when I got out of the car and let him have a peek! (Maybe he DIDN'T see the gun, and I scared him....though in my 20s I was thin and fairly cute! Lol.)
     
    RetiredUSNChief likes this.
  31. SDIVER2006

    SDIVER2006 SDIVER2006

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    814
    Location:
    Pineland NC
    I had a couple of Fayettevilles finest citizens made a beeline toward my wife and I, in a parking lot. around dusk yelling and tapping a stick on the ground (looked like a broom handle) they were between her and I and our truck.
    So i pulled it out low ready.
    they left.
    I called the police and filed a report just to cya, in case they reported me as brandishing
     
    charliedeltajuliet and Millie like this.
  32. Millie

    Millie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,151
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    Location:
    NC
    Good advice to call police. Sorry you guys had to deal with a bunch of a-holes with nothing better to do than accost people just going about their business!
     
    Button Pusher likes this.
  33. Climberman

    Climberman Unstealthiest Ninja

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    5,226
    Location:
    Raleigh
    I have put my hand on the grip, but didn't have to draw.
     
  34. SDIVER2006

    SDIVER2006 SDIVER2006

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    814
    Location:
    Pineland NC
    The cop was really cool about it too, He said that it was a good thing to do call/do a report.
    Fayetteville has always been bad, but as of late street corners, and parking lots have gotten exceedingly worse.

    Just stay frosty
     
    Oneofsix, Button Pusher and Millie like this.
  35. KnotRight

    KnotRight Active Member Charter Member Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    692
    Location:
    Savannah, GA
    Back when my kids were young (25 years ago) we were down in the Disneyland area. Staying at a motel on the 2nd or 3rd floor. Kids and wife were in the room and it was around 3:30 AM and the wife said someone was trying to break into the room. What I should have done was call the front desk but the guy was banging away. I told the guy to leave and he kept trying to get in. After a couple of minutes I grabbed the Walther PPK through open the door and stuck in his face. The guy jumped back almost falling off the rail. He started saying something in Spanish and after he got his shit together he left.
    Then I call the front desk and told them what happened. The knew the guy because he just checked in and went to the wrong floor.

    Should have called the front desk first.
     
  36. Button Pusher

    Button Pusher Well-Known Member Benefactor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,720
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Location:
    Raleigh
    Coworker was getting back into the pickup after buying some beer one night on the way home,
    some crackhead grabs the door before he closed it, 'GIVE IT UP"!
    Cornell put his S&W 686 4" with .357 JHP in his face...
    "The only thing you're getting a some hollowpoints"!
    The guy wet his pants before the police arrived to arrest him.
     
    RetiredUSNChief likes this.
  37. fishgutzy

    fishgutzy Senior Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Messages:
    4,222
    Likes Received:
    4,915
    Location:
    Kernersville
    Love the "he could have shot him in the leg" crap. No. That doesn't stop anyone. Shoot until the threat is neutralized.
    The other guy they quoted is slightly wrong. A 100 pound woman does not have let a 200 pound man beat her to death simply because he is unarmed. She can use a gun to permanently stop the threat. Even a 100 6th degree black belt isn't going to trade punches with a 200 pound man. But if she got lucky and killed him with a well placed kick, some liberal DA would still try to prosecute.
     
  38. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter Klugscheißer

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    1,463
    Location:
    WNC
    Would have been hilarious if the guy would have heard this and publicly responded, "I was aiming for his leg but I'm a horrible shot!"
     
    Millie and fishgutzy like this.
  39. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Get over it, snowflake. Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,100
    Likes Received:
    14,343
    Location:
    SC to VA
    The problems I have with the old "he could have shot him in the leg" philosophy are many layered. Back in the early days of our marriage, this was a view I had to deal with my wife about. (Her comment was "shoot them in the knee".) Fortunately, she got my points...and later, as a parent, those points became closer to her heart.

    First of all, you don't pull a gun on someone unless you actually are in reasonable fear for your life. "Fear for your life" means you're in a no-sh*t, his-or-my-life circumstance. You're NOT fooling around here, because your very continued existence is at stake.

    The concern for your attacker's health and well-being are forfeit the moment he places your own life in imminent danger.

    That's a mindset that many people don't understand because they've never seriously thought about it, are naïve about it having actually thought on the matter, or haven't ever been in a life-or-death encounter.

    The knee (or leg) is a small target. VERY small, when talking about a knee. And it's not likely to be a motionless target at whatever optimal target shooting distance you practice at. So it's going to be proportionately difficult to hit...more so in an actual life-or-death encounter when you're scared sh*tless and the adrenaline is pumping.

    I told my wife that I wouldn't take a shot to the knee knowing this and I consider myself to be a good shot.

    Another factor that many people who like the "shoot 'em in the leg" philosophy is the fact that one of the largest arteries in the body feeds blood to each leg: the femoral artery. Nick or puncture that and the guy you just shot bleeds to death in minutes anyway. So shooting someone in the leg is, by NO MEANS, a "safe and humane" shot to your attacker.

    Center of mass in the torso. It's the biggest target, therefore the least likely target to miss under high stress, life-or-death conditions. And, coincidentally, that's where the vast majority of all the internal organs reside.

    Don't. F*ck. Around. With. Your. Life.
     
    DLam, Toprudder, Millie and 4 others like this.
  40. Button Pusher

    Button Pusher Well-Known Member Benefactor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,720
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Location:
    Raleigh
    I recall a road rage story for carry insurance, bad driver pulls gun and points at driver while he is
    trying to take photo but phone is off, he dropped phone and hit brakes. Short time later cops come
    and arrest him because the rage driver reported he had a gun pointed at him but never stayed to file report.
    Good driver had a .22 in the car (legal) but cops assumed he pulled the gun not the black flip phone.
    ALWAYS make the report, otherwise they go with the report that is made by the aggressor.
    BTW, his carry insurance company covered all legal expenses up front, even though he did not brandish the gun.
     
    Millie likes this.